Holocaust denier sent to prison

[Solarion]

I'm sure everyone has their own theories. From my reading into the issue there aren't doubts that people died in concentration camps in great numbers. There's more questions about how they died...disease, starvation etc or systematically murdered. And also as to who they were, in what numbers, in what context/location was the evidence collected etc.

Even the official holocaust version of events has significantly downgraded the numbers of deaths over the years. Some camps have officially been stated to not have had gas chambers, which previously were said to have had etc. So even if you don't deny the holocaust the version of it you probably have been taught is mostly hyperbolic by many degrees. So a form of "holocaust denial" that states the events of world war 2 were manipulated and exaggerated for various agendas has already been justified. So it's really not such a straight forward issue as you might think.

+1

You know what they say, history is written by those who survived it.

I'll give you an example from a book I read recently.

After the war, Major General Belchem wrote this book. Even though he was the closest thing to a brother to Monty and throughout the Africa/Greece campaign was right in the thick of it all, he still had problems putting this book together just after the war.

Other military staff who were also right there, would disagree with him about what exactly transpired at X battle or Y ambush or Z person's death.

He put it down to context. The only people who can ever put history into context are people who don't care; the unbiased and apathetic are usually the wisest people in the room.

Edit: Sorry, the book.

 

[GreGorGy]

That someone believes obvious nonsense doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

Words to live by...

 

[Solarion]

Some people do believe there was no Jewish genocide. Read up on alternate sources, not just what the Jewish led media say.

Once you believe in something, you will only believe in that thing no matter what anyone tells you. It takes a strong person to look at facts and take them seriously.

Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Höss (also Höß, Hoeß or Hoess) (25 November 1900 – 16 April 1947)[1][2] was a Nazi lieutenant colonel in the Schutzstaffel (SS) and the longest serving commandant of Auschwitz concentration camp in World War II.

I, RUDOLF FRANZ FERDINAND HOESS, being first duly sworn, depose and say as follows:

1. I am forty*six years old, and have been a member of the NSDAPI since 1922; a member of the SS since 1934; a member of the Waffen*SS since 1939. I was a member from 1 December 1934 of the SS Guard Unit, the so*called Deathshead Formation (Totenkopf Verband).

2. I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 to 1 May, 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz. l commanded Auschwitz until 1 December,1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.

 

[RogerWilcoZA]

So apparently being an economist gives you the authority to make pronouncements about the holocaust...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Goodson

basically the exact same hateful charges that were instrumental in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust in the first place

 

[Nick333]

I actually don't agree with someone being imprisoned for stating an opinion, no matter how ludicrous (if indeed that is the case here), but when I read the wilfully, ignorant and deluded distortions of fact being presented here denying the systematic extermination of millions of people that flies in the face of hundreds of thousands of survivors and the testimony of those who carried out the exterminations I can completely understand why German authorities are so wary about allowing this sick, insanity from being propagated.

You people are so invested in your sick fantasies of being wise to the mass manipulation and conspiracies that you can't see that you are taking a giant **** on the many people who lost their entire families to this madness and those who lived through it and most importantly the millions who did not. All for the sake of feeling like you're so ****ing smart and wise. Fcck you.

 

[Cray]

I actually don't agree with someone being imprisoned for stating an opinion, no matter how ludicrous (if indeed that is the case here), but when I read the wilfully, ignorant and deluded distortions of fact being presented here denying the systematic extermination of millions of people that flies in the face of hundreds of thousands of survivors and the testimony of those who carried out the exterminations I can completely understand why German authorities are so wary about allowing this sick, insanity from being propagated.

You people are so invested in your sick fantasies of being wise to the mass manipulation and conspiracies that you can't see that you are taking a giant **** on the many people who lost their entire families to this madness and those who lived through it and most importantly the millions who did not. All for the sake of feeling like you're so ****ing smart and wise. Fcck you.

Well said.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I actually don't agree with someone being imprisoned for stating an opinion, no matter how ludicrous (if indeed that is the case here), but when I read the wilfully, ignorant and deluded distortions of fact being presented here denying the systematic extermination of millions of people that flies in the face of hundreds of thousands of survivors and the testimony of those who carried out the exterminations I can completely understand why German authorities are so wary about allowing this sick, insanity from being propagated.

You people are so invested in your sick fantasies of being wise to the mass manipulation and conspiracies that you can't see that you are taking a giant **** on the many people who lost their entire families to this madness and those who lived through it and most importantly the millions who did not. All for the sake of feeling like you're so ****ing smart and wise. Fcck you.

Come Nick. You come across as quite a rational person and that's out of character for you.

The only dog I have in this fight , is my interest in people's rights to debate and explore any issue they seek fit. If we draw arbitrary lines based on what issues we can study, based on perceived "feelings" we step onto a very slippery slope. It's akin to not being able to question someone who makes a rape claim because we're being insensitive to the trauma she/he has apparently experienced. Censorship of any kind is the enemy of the objective truth. Again if the evidence is so overwhelming that the holocaust happened exactly as officially mandated then what's the harm in people questioning it ? Surely the evidence will weight so heavily in it's favour that their ideas will be easily dismissed.

Of course people who delve into the "holocaust denial" issue have to be objective and double guess what agenda's are at place, and not selectively only see agenda as a one way street.

 

[Rusty0]

I actually don't agree with someone being imprisoned for stating an opinion, no matter how ludicrous (if indeed that is the case here), but when I read the wilfully, ignorant and deluded distortions of fact being presented here denying the systematic extermination of millions of people that flies in the face of hundreds of thousands of survivors and the testimony of those who carried out the exterminations I can completely understand why German authorities are so wary about allowing this sick, insanity from being propagated.

You people are so invested in your sick fantasies of being wise to the mass manipulation and conspiracies that you can't see that you are taking a giant **** on the many people who lost their entire families to this madness and those who lived through it and most importantly the millions who did not. All for the sake of feeling like you're so ****ing smart and wise. Fcck you.

Anything and everything should be allowed to be questioned.

 

[Cray]

Anything and everything should be allowed to be questioned.

Agree, but questions without foundation and that dispute clear evidence should be treated with contempt, just as moon landing hoaxers are treated.

 

[Xarog]

Anything and everything should be allowed to be questioned.

Same reason that people ought to be allowed to fly ISIS flags tbh.

I don't agree with it, but freedom of speech only matters if people still have the right to express things you don't approve of.

 

[Rusty0]

Agree, but questions without foundation and that dispute clear evidence should be treated with contempt, just as moon landing hoaxers are treated.

The evidence is not clear, there a multiple official sources that dispute the numbers of deaths.

 

[Rusty0]

Same reason that people ought to be allowed to fly ISIS flags tbh.

I don't agree with it, but freedom of speech only matters if people still have the right to express things you don't approve of.

Flying flags while being part of your freedoms will get you locked up, the Nazi flag, old SA flag, ISIS flag etc...

 

[Cray]

The evidence is not clear, there a multiple official sources that dispute the numbers of deaths.

The systematic, wilful extermination of Jews, gypsies and others by the Third Reich is not in dispute by any reputable historian, the number of deaths being revised slightly upward or downward does not change the fundamental nature of the holocaust.

 

[Cray]

Flying flags while being part of your freedoms will get you locked up, the Nazi flag, old SA flag, ISIS flag etc...

Um, what?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Old-flag-still-legal-20091209

Old flag still legal

2009-12-09 22:18

Dries Liebenberg

Durban - The old South African flag was never banned, and the display of it is protected under the right to freedom of speech.

This was the reaction of Constitutional experts on Wednesday, after Bheki Cele, national chief of police, gave an order on Tuesday for a small old South African flag to be removed from a junior Metrorail manager's office in Durban

 

[Rusty0]

The systematic, wilful extermination of Jews, gypsies and others by the Third Reich is not in dispute by any reputable historian, the number of deaths being revised slightly upward or downward does not change the fundamental nature of the holocaust.

I believe history is written by the victors.

 

[Rusty0]

Um, what?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Old-flag-still-legal-20091209

Im not 100% sure of that, it is banned as far as I know.
If you at a sporting event it will get you kicked out and confiscated.

 

[Cray]

Im not 100% sure of that, it is banned as far as I know.
If you at a sporting event it will get you kicked out and confiscated.

Right of admission reserved, if it's private property they can tell you not allowed but it's not illegal to display it in your home or in public.

 

[Sherbang]

I believe history is written by the victors.

What about all the testimonies of the Nazi SS men? Why would they lie?
Why does Germany to this day accept guilt and offer recompense to survivors and their descendants?

 

[Cray]

I believe history is written by the victors.

Any links to these "official" sources that dispute the truth of the holocaust?

 

[Rusty0]

What about all the testimonies of the Nazi SS men? Why would they lie?
Why does Germany to this day accept guilt and offer recompense to survivors and their descendants?

Again, history is written by the victors. They accept guilty, nobody is disputing that it happened.

Any links to these "official" sources that dispute the truth of the holocaust?

Google the first two words of this topic, theres loads of info on it.
I dont really have an opinion on it, but it needs to be discussed openly and more than it is now.