How do software developers afford Cape Town rental

[noob_saibot]

Why does everyone that lives in Cape Town say it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world?

AFAIK:

- It's cold there for 7-8 months of the year
- You can't be in the ocean water for more than an hour (or with dead nerve-endings, maybe 3)
- The "beautiful" side is not too far from the ganglands of the Cape flats
- Rent is high, food costs more, housing looks less 'safe'

I don't mean to troll-bait here(so anybody that wants to 'attack' - I apologize in advance if I offended you), but I just can't see how life would be 'great' in CPT when you're scrounging for food/heat due to high rent, higher food/electricity costs and pretty much higher everything.

There may be more to do/see, but with everything being so expensive, can you even do any of those things?

It does seem like a good real estate investment though (those prices on AirBnB seem to justify it).

 

[calypso]

Why is food more expensive? Retail stores have differential pricing for CT?

 

[cguy]

Why does everyone that lives in Cape Town say it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world?

AFAIK:

- It's cold there for 7-8 months of the year
- You can't be in the ocean water for more than an hour (or with dead nerve-endings, maybe 3)
- The "beautiful" side is not too far from the ganglands of the Cape flats
- Rent is high, food costs more, housing looks less 'safe'

I don't mean to troll-bait here(so anybody that wants to 'attack' - I apologize in advance if I offended you), but I just can't see how life would be 'great' in CPT when you're scrounging for food/heat due to high rent, higher food/electricity costs and pretty much higher everything.

There may be more to do/see, but with everything being so expensive, can you even do any of those things?

It does seem like a good real estate investment though (those prices on AirBnB seem to justify it).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as a Cape Town lad most of my life, I would agree that it is high on the list. I do think that there are plenty of comparable cities all over the world though, depending on what you like.

The other issue you bring up is cost. It is expensive, but only if you're earning at a level where things like rent, food and electricity are even an issue. It creates a harsh environment for new graduates and the less skilled out there (nothing new - places like London, New York and Silicon Valley are the same), but for those who accept the trade-offs, or earn enough to not have to trade-off, it's very much worthwhile. There are definitely many software developers in Cape Town that fall into the latter category (I know of at least one large Cape Town company that pays its top devs in the order of R1M/year).

 

[Pho3nix]

There are definitely many software developers in Cape Town that fall into the latter category (I know of at least one large Cape Town company that pays its top devs in the order of R1M/year).

A little gobsmacked to hear there is a company in SA that does that. Anything higher than R650k/year usually means you need to specialize in something to break out of there.

 

[semaphore]

A little gobsmacked to hear there is a company in SA that does that. Anything higher than R650k/year usually means you need to specialize in something to break out of there.

You need to shop around more.

 

[OCP]

Why does everyone that lives in Cape Town say it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world?

AFAIK:

- It's cold there for 7-8 months of the year
- You can't be in the ocean water for more than an hour (or with dead nerve-endings, maybe 3)
- The "beautiful" side is not too far from the ganglands of the Cape flats
- Rent is high, food costs more, housing looks less 'safe'

I don't mean to troll-bait here(so anybody that wants to 'attack' - I apologize in advance if I offended you), but I just can't see how life would be 'great' in CPT when you're scrounging for food/heat due to high rent, higher food/electricity costs and pretty much higher everything.

There may be more to do/see, but with everything being so expensive, can you even do any of those things?

It does seem like a good real estate investment though (those prices on AirBnB seem to justify it).

I have 2 small kids and live in the southern subburbs.
We are 5min from the beach/forest/reservoir and countless other outdoor facilities.

When my brother in law from JHB is down he always complains that everything up there is so far away and we are spoilt for choice....

 

[Pho3nix]

You need to shop around more.

You hiring

Seriously though, if I want to get higher than that I'll have to do something like SharePoint exclusively or go into management or back to contracting.

 

[envo]

I just want to rant about Cape Town.

Cape Town is the go to place for startups and software developers. I find a lot of software dev jobs here in and in classified it has way more opportunities listed.. Problem is rental is sky high. Not just talking about City Center but also the Southern Suburbs. Rental for a room in Rondebosch with no parking easily exceeds what you rent for a 3 bedroom townhouse with two garages and a garden in Joburg despite the Cape Town houses on the outside not looking nice or being much older

Travel times from the Northern suburbs and places like Blouberg make the money on petrol and hours wasted in the car daily not worth while if you want to rent fudther away.

Car insurance premiums will be sky high due to street parking. Even super successful companies like SAP need employees organize lift clubs as you rarely get enough office parking

House breaking seem to be a way of life here and people don't even report to police when it happens. In joburg at least aren't as brazen as they know owners there carry guns. Petty criminals here are able to make a living off it if you live in an area near transport routes.

Salaries here are much lower. For example an entry level call center agent or computer or network technician 's salaries advertises at R5K. For the same job in Joburg I found it advertizes at R15K.

My question is for other people in the IT sector who have moved to Cape Town. How do you manage it here?

Move somewhere cheap like Paarl and take the train in daily. Cape Town doesn't require you to have a car and is quite easily accessible. I've seen a lot of companies move out of Cape Town towards Stellenbosch/Paarl areas because that's where most of their employees live

 

[TelkomUseless]

Unfortunately for most people, you can't have it both ways. Either you want the great lifestyle and struggle for it in CPT, or live with some peace of mind that you're somewhat more financially secure at the cost of the coastal lifestyle. Which is why many of us choose to rather stay in JHB and holiday once or twice a year.

To those who have made it, kudos.

this.

Had an opportunity 2 years ago for cape town job. No thanks... I'll stay here and visit Cape.

 

[Brawler]

Its not only software developers.

Its simple supply and demand in CBD and Southern Suburbs.

 

[diabolus]

My speculation:

One impression that I have is that a lot of SA software development has become commoditized: Developers in SA have been moving towards effectively building content for companies, rather than developing new technology, which was more of a focus back in the day (90's). Although these "content creators" are often highly skilled programmers, it a) tends to be more accessible (no Maths II, no 3rd year non-CS subjects, etc. - which incidentally was a requirement to get a BSc in CS from UCT), and b) increasingly employs many more people than those companies developing technology. The combination of these resulted in an increasingly higher supply vs. demand, which has meant that salaries haven't kept up.

I recall back in the late 90's many new honours and masters graduates were earning significantly more than senior university staff, accountants, doctors, dentists and lawyers (of comparable seniority) at the time. Although income has gone up across the board due to inflation, my impression is that developers have increased slower than the other professions, and probably slower than inflation too.

Another point that I also believe affects developers more than the other professions, is the expectation that developers become managers as part of their normal career progression. This is also something that follows from commoditization: there's always someone to replace "the 32 year old", who just became a manager. In contrast, for doctors, lawyers, accountants, dentists, university staff, etc., practicing in their profession is a usually a terminal career point. The net effect of this is that development is viewed as a "junior" role (even for "senior developers" or even architects), while management is considered "senior" - fundamentally, the old-school "How many people in your fiefdom?" mentality. This tends to inflate manager salaries and deflate developer salaries, creating glass salary ceilings. Connecting this to the last point: paired with the additional supply, being a developer today is a lot less glamorous than it was in the late 90's (relatively speaking - I still think it is an enjoyable and possibly lucrative career path).

Yea, the irony with this Dev->Manager mentality is, that you suddenly find all these "managers" who stops coding and become glorified HR administrators with some project management on the side (without any experience in any). So when the sh&t starts hitting the fan, guess who can't do any real work? Those "managers" will also struggle to find a new job with similar pay when they need to bail since now their competition is senior developers who are up to date and eager to also move into management positions AND general managers (who is not necessarily in IT at all). Classic too many chiefs, no indians problems.

I have personally made it a little motto of mine to never lose my development ability and rather get involved in positions where i can be involved in designing and even coding the tech as opposed to "managing" where it is just big picture and project/resource management. There are amazing amounts of opportunity in the market to develop tech/software on your own (own business) if you remain capable of doing it, regardless of your age.

I constantly see my peers losing touch with IT while they end up in a "ICT Manager" or "IS Manager" type of position in non-IT type of companies and ending up dealing with "general" business issues.

So sure for some this route works, but end result still means you are trading a very technical specialized (and alot of opportunity in this country) position for a general manager one (which is the easiest to fill with unqualified people or BEE targets).

TL;DR : You can put any random matric-less/unqualified person in a management position in this country (even in IT) , you can't do the same for a senior developer position.

 

[DominionZA]

Yea, the irony with this Dev->Manager mentality is, that you suddenly find all these "managers" who stops coding and become glorified HR administrators with some project management on the side (without any experience in any). So when the sh&t starts hitting the fan, guess who can't do any real work? Those "managers" will also struggle to find a new job with similar pay when they need to bail since now their competition is senior developers who are up to date and eager to also move into management positions AND general managers (who is not necessarily in IT at all). Classic too many chiefs, no indians problems.

I have personally made it a little motto of mine to never lose my development ability and rather get involved in positions where i can be involved in designing and even coding the tech as opposed to "managing" where it is just big picture and project/resource management. There are amazing amounts of opportunity in the market to develop tech/software on your own (own business) if you remain capable of doing it, regardless of your age.

I constantly see my peers losing touch with IT while they end up in a "ICT Manager" or "IS Manager" type of position in non-IT type of companies and ending up dealing with "general" business issues.

So sure for some this route works, but end result still means you are trading a very technical specialized (and alot of opportunity in this country) position for a general manager one (which is the easiest to fill with unqualified people or BEE targets).

TL;DR : You can put any random matric-less/unqualified person in a management position in this country (even in IT) , you can't do the same for a senior developer position.

With you on this one.

One of my long term clients wanted me to join them perm as their IT Manager and I declined 4 times. I eventually accepted (offer got too good to refuse) but with the understanding that I keep coding. They were reluctant then eventually agreed.

I have never liked management, but because I still get to code (about 50 to 60% of my time), it is okay.

 

[JackWhite]

Yea, the irony with this Dev->Manager mentality is, that you suddenly find all these "managers" who stops coding and become glorified HR administrators with some project management on the side (without any experience in any). So when the sh&t starts hitting the fan, guess who can't do any real work? Those "managers" will also struggle to find a new job with similar pay when they need to bail since now their competition is senior developers who are up to date and eager to also move into management positions AND general managers (who is not necessarily in IT at all). Classic too many chiefs, no indians problems.

I have personally made it a little motto of mine to never lose my development ability and rather get involved in positions where i can be involved in designing and even coding the tech as opposed to "managing" where it is just big picture and project/resource management. There are amazing amounts of opportunity in the market to develop tech/software on your own (own business) if you remain capable of doing it, regardless of your age.

I constantly see my peers losing touch with IT while they end up in a "ICT Manager" or "IS Manager" type of position in non-IT type of companies and ending up dealing with "general" business issues.

So sure for some this route works, but end result still means you are trading a very technical specialized (and alot of opportunity in this country) position for a general manager one (which is the easiest to fill with unqualified people or BEE targets).

TL;DR : You can put any random matric-less/unqualified person in a management position in this country (even in IT) , you can't do the same for a senior developer position.

The ICT and IS types of managers make more than the senior developers which is why Dev->Manager mentality is here to stay

 

[MartyMarts]

My plan is to stay near CT but work in Jhb. Over the interwebs. Prettiness of the WC with Jhb pay. Best of both worlds!

Reality might not agree with me.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Why does everyone that lives in Cape Town say it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world?

AFAIK:

- It's cold there for 7-8 months of the year
- You can't be in the ocean water for more than an hour (or with dead nerve-endings, maybe 3)
- The "beautiful" side is not too far from the ganglands of the Cape flats
- Rent is high, food costs more, housing looks less 'safe'

I don't mean to troll-bait here(so anybody that wants to 'attack' - I apologize in advance if I offended you), but I just can't see how life would be 'great' in CPT when you're scrounging for food/heat due to high rent, higher food/electricity costs and pretty much higher everything.

There may be more to do/see, but with everything being so expensive, can you even do any of those things?

It does seem like a good real estate investment though (those prices on AirBnB seem to justify it).

I'll be honest with you, I can't tell you exactly why I prefer Cape Town.

I can however tell you that every time I get to Jo'burg it seems very dull and dreary to me and a little bit yellow at that.

Only kind of place I can think of that I would rather live than Cape Town is something like Knysna or Nature's Valley but neither of those are living and working destinations.


That being said I've been here most of my life so...

- It's cold there for 7-8 months of the year

I wouldn't say it's cold, but then it's the norm for me.

- You can't be in the ocean water for more than an hour (or with dead nerve-endings, maybe 3)

I live here and I haven't been to the sea in years. I think the same applies for most people in Cape Town. Only you tourist folk comes of the beaches. That being said Gordon's Bay side is a lot more pleasant.

- The "beautiful" side is not too far from the ganglands of the Cape flats

Not sure which side that is. Personally I live in the North and work in the CBD.

- Rent is high, food costs more, housing looks less 'safe'

I honestly wouldn't know not having lived anywhere else, again it's the norm for me. Food I'm pretty sure costs the same everywhere. It only appears less safe because every house isn't a fortress...because it is more safe and therefore doesn't need to be.

 

[scudsucker]

The "beautiful" side is so far away from the flats up the mountain you can't even hear the gunshots.

 

[cguy]

Yea, the irony with this Dev->Manager mentality is, that you suddenly find all these "managers" who stops coding and become glorified HR administrators with some project management on the side (without any experience in any). So when the sh&t starts hitting the fan, guess who can't do any real work? Those "managers" will also struggle to find a new job with similar pay when they need to bail since now their competition is senior developers who are up to date and eager to also move into management positions AND general managers (who is not necessarily in IT at all). Classic too many chiefs, no indians problems.

I have personally made it a little motto of mine to never lose my development ability and rather get involved in positions where i can be involved in designing and even coding the tech as opposed to "managing" where it is just big picture and project/resource management. There are amazing amounts of opportunity in the market to develop tech/software on your own (own business) if you remain capable of doing it, regardless of your age.

I constantly see my peers losing touch with IT while they end up in a "ICT Manager" or "IS Manager" type of position in non-IT type of companies and ending up dealing with "general" business issues.

So sure for some this route works, but end result still means you are trading a very technical specialized (and alot of opportunity in this country) position for a general manager one (which is the easiest to fill with unqualified people or BEE targets).

TL;DR : You can put any random matric-less/unqualified person in a management position in this country (even in IT) , you can't do the same for a senior developer position.

While I do think that at least some of these guys actually became very good technical managers, and that the best technical managers need to have had hands on skills (and hopefully retain some), I strongly agree that there is a risk from this type of movement - specifically, it is much harder to figure out of someone is a good manager during an interview process vs. a good hands-on developer, and non-hands-on management, definitely leads to skill atrophy. I mitigated this when I was a manager, but coding at home (my wife loved that! ). This means that even if you're one of the best managers out there, it's really hard to show it, which can become a problem when switching companies.

 

[semaphore]

This 'development' manager joined my previous company before I resigned, he had no development experience what so ever.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

This 'development' manager joined my previous company before I resigned, he had no development experience what so ever.

You think that's bad, we have a 'development manager' and she doesn't do any development. Actually, she doesn't do any management either...

 

[semaphore]

You think that's bad, we have a 'development manager' and she doesn't do any development. Actually, she doesn't do any management either...

I tried to think if i could beat that. One point to you kind sir.