How much time do you spend with your SO?

[GreGorGy]

whooooosh!

 

[dreamrobin]

So @joelus how long have you been in a relationship, and what kind of roles do you 2 take on?

And why are you responding the way you do in this thread? I almost thought you are just trolling but now I am starting to think you are just passing time by and working on your post count.

Some people are just too immature for threads like this so they start trolling, he should rather continue searching for porn.

 

[Sherbang]

I feel sorry for the woman or man you end up with

I'm in a happy relationship, thanks.

I feel sorry for little boys who are teased because they like to play with dolls or knit or dress up and little girls who are forced to wear pretty dresses and only buy pink things. Although admittedly it's easier for little girls to be tomboys than for boys to be effeminate. I'm sick of gender roles and rules, how boys must play with cars and trains and girls must play with barbie dolls and pretty pink dressups.
How men can't be weak and woman can't be assertive. How it's okay for women to be needy but not men, and it's ok for men to be promiscuous but not women. The days of defining how people should behave based on gender need to come to an end.
People come in all flavours and varieties, both men and women.
If _Hecate_ finds this man too needy and clingy for her, that's a problem, sure - but it's not a gender problem, because, believe it or not, many men find women who are too needy or clingy just as problematic.
Maybe he will find a different woman who enjoys the attention his neediness showers on her and who is happy to fulfil his needs, who feels good being needed. And maybe she will find a man who is distant and silent and never shows any emotion or need for her whatsoever and she will be happy (or something in between obviously which is more realistic). Gender roles are irrelevant, or should be IMO

 

[dreamrobin]

People come in all flavours and varieties, both men and women.

This is true but you are slightly off track, the discussion is on how most woman are forced to play a masculine role and the factors that are causes this for most relationships. People are who they are, if a man is feminine or a woman masculine by nature then so be it, we are looking at why relationships are not working because of this, not forcing people to act a certain way because of society.

 

[Sherbang]

This is true but you are slightly off track, the discussion is on how most woman are forced to play a masculine role and the factors that are causes this for most relationships. People are who they are, if a man is feminine or a woman masculine by nature then so be it, we are looking at why relationships are not working because of this, not forcing people to act a certain way because of society.

Well, I don't think women are 'forced' to play a masculine role, they fought hard for many years for the right to play the 'masculine role'. Perhaps the issue is that men no longer feel 'forced' to play a so-called masculine role and women don't like that.
It seems women want to be able to be 'masculine' when it suits them but still expect men to always play the masculine role, no exceptions (even though women will say they wish men would show their emotions more, the same women have very little patience for men who are vulnerable and emotional). And it's all social constructs.
In past times women were expected to be subservient because it was their 'natural' role, it's how they were made.
Men were made to be in charge, were more intelligent and reasonable - they didn't share the hysterical temperament that was a woman's lot in life. It was seen as the natural order of things.
Very much like when Tinuva says "the man you need to take the masculine role in the relationship, and let the woman take the feminine role. She has to be the one who wants to spend more time with him, not the other way around." It's the same stereotypical BS.

 

[techead]

Can I just say one thing here. Whether you stay with the person or not, makes zero difference.

You get two types of people. People who recharge ALONE/ON THEIR OWN and people who recharge AROUND OTHER PEOPLE.

Whether you live together, or not, you still inherently need to live by those principles or you are going to be MISERABLE

use it, dont use it.

 

[Strangelove]

This is true but you are slightly off track, the discussion is on how most woman are forced to play a masculine role and the factors that are causes this for most relationships. People are who they are, if a man is feminine or a woman masculine by nature then so be it, we are looking at why relationships are not working because of this, not forcing people to act a certain way because of society.

[-]So what you're saying is that they are doomed because they don't follow the "traditional" roles?

There is no hard-wired rule in nature that says women should be submissive and men dominate. Society made it that way (especially men in power), therefore all of this arbitrary and anyone can break away from it. It's unnecessary.[/-]

Edit: Joelus beat me to it.

 

[Tinuva]

Well, I don't think women are 'forced' to play a masculine role, they fought hard for many years for the right to play the 'masculine role'. Perhaps the issue is that men no longer feel 'forced' to play a so-called masculine role and women don't like that.

First part is definitely accurate. As for second part, that is probably true too. However it is not the issue at hand.

The issue is, when the situation where men are in the feminine role and women are in the masculine role, relationships fail.
Why do the relationship fail?
Because the woman want to be in the feminine role. She doesn't think she want to be, this is an emotion that happen, and it feels un-natural to her. She doesn't understand why, it just happen without her thinking about it or knowing why she feel that way. When she feel this way, she starts to fall out of love with her relationship partner. When she fall out of love, she breaks up with him. I just spotted that this is the situation with the opening poster and explained why her guy needs to grow a pair. It wasn't about stereotypes, I don't care for stereotypes. It was about what works in a relationship and what doesn't work.

So, I don't have anything against equality, I just know it doesn't work.

It seems women want to be able to be 'masculine' when it suits them but still expect men to always play the masculine role, no exceptions (even though women will say they wish men would show their emotions more, the same women have very little patience for men who are vulnerable and emotional). And it's all social constructs.
In past times women were expected to be subservient because it was their 'natural' role, it's how they were made.

Now this is worth debating. But I will say this. Women has to be in the masculine rule at work when they are managers, ceos, or have responsibility for something. This is what they fought for, they wanted to be able to work alongside men in their own jobs, as well as be able to go into politics and become politicians and have the right to vote ect ect ect. I have no problem with this, and this is also what you are in favor for in this thread.

Men were made to be in charge, were more intelligent and reasonable - they didn't share the hysterical temperament that was a woman's lot in life. It was seen as the natural order of things.
Very much like when Tinuva says "the man you need to take the masculine role in the relationship, and let the woman take the feminine role. She has to be the one who wants to spend more time with him, not the other way around." It's the same stereotypical BS.

Funny. Here you agree, that it is natural, yet you believe it is stereotypical BS. I say believe, because it is not, it is much more complex than a stereotype.

Can I just say one thing here. Whether you stay with the person or not, makes zero difference.

You get two types of people. People who recharge ALONE/ON THEIR OWN and people who recharge AROUND OTHER PEOPLE.

Whether you live together, or not, you still inherently need to live by those principles or you are going to be MISERABLE

use it, dont use it.

You just described the difference between an introvert and extrovert. None the less, that is something that will become part of the relationship dynamic and won't be the cause or reason for it failing or not. As long as the couple stay in love, which will be determined by more important facts, they will work out what work or dont work for their characteristics whether they are introverts, or extroverts or a mix of the two.

 

[techead]

Introvert and Extrovert is something entirely different.

Just because you more extrovert does NOT mean that you recharge better around people. I'm a living testament to that.

imho

 

[Tinuva]

o what you're saying is that they are doomed because they don't follow the "traditional" roles?

There is no hard-wired rule in nature that says women should be submissive and men dominate. Society made it that way (especially men in power), therefore all of this arbitrary and anyone can break away from it. It's unnecessary.

Actually you are wrong, it is the exact opposite. Society initially conformed to the rules of nature, but with time people became smarter and they let their thinking over-rule nature.

And here is where you are even more wrong. We never said women need to be submissive, and never said men need to dominate. The keywords are: Men need to take leadership in the relationship.

Looks like I am wasting my time, because most here is confusing the roles of the relationship vs the roles in general outside of the relationship.

 

[Tinuva]

Introvert and Extrovert is something entirely different.

Just because you more extrovert does NOT mean that you recharge better around people. I'm a living testament to that.

Nope.

Extroverts recharge by being around people.
Introverts lose energy when around people.

You may very well be a introvert who can easily move into an extrovert role and probably do so a lot, which is why you don't recharge better around people.

 

[techead]

You may very well be a introvert who can easily move into an extrovert role and probably do so a lot, which is why you don't recharge better around people.

this is exactly me

 

[_Hecate_]

Actually you are wrong, it is the exact opposite. Society initially conformed to the rules of nature, but with time people became smarter and they let their thinking over-rule nature.

And here is where you are even more wrong. We never said women need to be submissive, and never said men need to dominate. The keywords are: Men need to take leadership in the relationship.

Looks like I am wasting my time, because most here is confusing the roles of the relationship vs the roles in general outside of the relationship.

I agree with this. Also men and women can "switch" roles when its required. But sustaining a role that is not your natural comfort zone is where the problem comes in.

Also take into account, i'm not a complete cold hearted b.tch..when I say needy..I mean super needy and clingy. To the extreme that I've never seen a women be with a guy. So its not in the normal range.

its tiring me out...this weekend its make or break

 

[Tinuva]

I agree with this. Also men and women can "switch" roles when its required. But sustaining a role that is not your natural comfort zone is where the problem comes in.

Also take into account, i'm not a complete cold hearted b.tch..when I say needy..I mean super needy and clingy. To the extreme that I've never seen a women be with a guy. So its not in the normal range.

its tiring me out...this weekend its make or break

Best of luck, I hope you guys can figure it out!

 

[Sherbang]

First part is definitely accurate. As for second part, that is probably true too. However it is not the issue at hand.

The issue is, when the situation where men are in the feminine role and women are in the masculine role, relationships fail.
Why do the relationship fail?
Because the woman want to be in the feminine role. She doesn't think she want to be, this is an emotion that happen, and it feels un-natural to her. She doesn't understand why, it just happen without her thinking about it or knowing why she feel that way. When she feel this way, she starts to fall out of love with her relationship partner. When she fall out of love, she breaks up with him. I just spotted that this is the situation with the opening poster and explained why her guy needs to grow a pair. It wasn't about stereotypes, I don't care for stereotypes. It was about what works in a relationship and what doesn't work.
So, I don't have anything against equality, I just know it doesn't work.

It doesn't always work between couples for many reasons and yes, expectations based on social stereotypes is one of those reasons, agreed.

Funny. Here you agree, that it is natural, yet you believe it is stereotypical BS. I say believe, because it is not, it is much more complex than a stereotype.

That went straight over your head didn't it? I was giving you an example of what people thought was natural in those days to demonstrate that just because people think it's natural doesn't mean it is. It's social.

 

[dreamrobin]

I agree with this. Also men and women can "switch" roles when its required. But sustaining a role that is not your natural comfort zone is where the problem comes in.

Also take into account, i'm not a complete cold hearted b.tch..when I say needy..I mean super needy and clingy. To the extreme that I've never seen a women be with a guy. So its not in the normal range.

its tiring me out...this weekend its make or break

Communication is key, you will be unhappy if you try to solve something if the other person is oblivious to the issue. If you tell him how you feel and what you want and need, and he does the same, it is then up to both of you to either work through it or separate. Relationships are doomed if there is a lack of communication, and once both of you express your feelings, the only reason why it wont work is if one person is not interested in pursuing a better stronger relationship.

 

[Sherbang]

Actually you are wrong, it is the exact opposite. Society initially conformed to the rules of nature, but with time people became smarter and they let their thinking over-rule nature.

And here is where you are even more wrong. We never said women need to be submissive, and never said men need to dominate. The keywords are: Men need to take leadership in the relationship.

Looks like I am wasting my time, because most here is confusing the roles of the relationship vs the roles in general outside of the relationship.

Is this like a law or something? Who made these rules 'of nature' and why must we follow them?
Do you have evidence that these 'rules of nature' even exist? It's all social constructs.
Do you honestly think it's impossible to have a happy relationship if the woman takes on the leadership role?
Or, god forbid, neither takes a leadership role and they work together as partners?

 

[Tinuva]

That went straight over your head didn't it? I was giving you an example of what people thought was natural in those days to demonstrate that just because people think it's natural doesn't mean it is. It's social.

Haha ok sure. It must have went over my head, because I understand it is more complex than a stereotype.

 

[Tinuva]

Is this like a law or something?

No it's not. Troll much?

Who made these rules 'of nature' and why must we follow them?

No single person did. Pretty certain this happened before humans could even talk. You don't have to follow them, not like you did anyways.

Do you have evidence that these 'rules of nature' even exist? It's all social constructs.

No I don't, I experiment a lot, and read up a lot. Certainly haven't kept any of the reading material to have evidence here for you. You can go look it up yourself, or even better yet, go find evidence that say I am wrong.

Do you honestly think it's impossible to have a happy relationship if the woman takes on the leadership role?

Seriously, have you not followed the conversation or even read the previous posts? I already said there are always exceptions to the general rules.

Or, god forbid, neither takes a leadership role and they work together as partners?

Ditto.

 

[Sherbang]

Nope.

Extroverts recharge by being around people.
Introverts lose energy when around people.

You may very well be a introvert who can easily move into an extrovert role and probably do so a lot, which is why you don't recharge better around people.

Labels again.
You like putting people into little boxes don't you?