How the WITS student voting will work

SammyD said:
A graduate tax still ensures you're paying for it but if much less of a burden on the individual.
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I'm 100% against a graduate tax, you are just trying to fob the cost off onto people who have already paid.


SammyD said:
No one is saying funds should be redirected from any of those issues.
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But because of SA's small tax base that is the only way, funds will be redirected away from the poor.


SammyD said:
But people aren't paying it back are they? So the programme has basically failed. It's time for a new solution.
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No, the rules just need to be energetically enforced.


There is no other viable solution.
 
Humberto said:
On the contrary, the balance of probability supports the conclusion that student protesters have been responsible for various acts of arson, vandalism, and criminality. And you're blinded by your love of the FeesMustFall movement to acknowledge the obvious. You are deluded.
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There are SRC guys on tape saying they're proud of the arson for crying out aloud. :D
 
BBSA said:
Sammy, you only care about the students. You do know we have millions of poor South Africans which are not students, right?

We should channel money towards basic education, feeding schemes for under-nourished children, clean water and basic sanitation for the millions of poor citizens.

We should not bow to the students just because they shout the loudest.

As I said, we can look at free tertiary education one day then we are a developed country.
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That.

The largest job market is still for semi-skilled individuals.
Lets get people with Matric certificates - and not this watered down version we have now - before we tackle higher education.

Personally, I would much rather hire a hard working individual with Matric than an entitled brat with a Degree.
 
Jola said:
I'm 100% against a graduate tax, you are just trying to fob the cost off onto people who have already paid.




But because of SA's small tax base that is the only way, funds will be redirected away from the poor.




No, the rules just need to be energetically enforced.


There is no other viable solution.
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SammyD said:
If you don't want to be hypothetical, let's use some numbers.

http://www.biznews.com/budget/budge...number-of-taxpayers-and-what-they-contribute/

For the taxable section, taxed at 1% that amounts to R19.5 billion collected, rounded down. Wits has 35000 students whos tuition fees on average are R45 000 rounded up using these numbers.

https://www.wits.ac.za/study-at-wits/fees-and-funding/undergraduate-fees/

Although that 35000 includes post grad and international students, we'll take it as is. So that's 1.575 billion Wits is supposed to get from students.

Working on the 19.5 billion that's 12 Wit's. Most universities have round about the same number of students or less.
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porchrat said:
There are SRC guys on tape saying they're proud of the arson for crying out aloud. :D
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I'll entertain a non Wits reference just this once. Won't take follow ups because I don't know what's happening at DUT, I'm not a student there.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...2017-protester-proud-of-arson-attacks-2072961

So from the article clearly the guy isn't SRC.
 
SammyD said:
I'll entertain a non Wits reference just this once. Won't take follow ups because I don't know what's happening at DUT, I'm not a student there.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...2017-protester-proud-of-arson-attacks-2072961

So from the article clearly the guy isn't SRC.
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Fair enough. Unfortunately you're still a member of this movement and, seemingly like the rest of your mates, you support the blocking of entrances and the shutting down of the university (no lectures for anyone etc.). You guys aren't peaceful.

BTW did you ever answer my questions about your worldview? (you know... the ones about what gives you the right to bar people from doing something and under what circumstances am I justified in barring you from doing something? I'm genuinely interested in seeing whether or not it is internally consistent)
 
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BBSA said:
Sammy, you only care about the students. You do know we have millions of poor South Africans which are not students, right?

We should channel money towards basic education, feeding schemes for under-nourished children, clean water and basic sanitation for the millions of poor citizens.

We should not bow to the students just because they shout the loudest.

As I said, we can look at free tertiary education one day then we are a developed country.
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I made a similar comment,which he could not respond to.

He keeps saying getting a degree will eradicate poverty because people will get a good job.

Not everyone is made out to major in business,why can't this government build more college's that offer courses for hands on things like electrician,mechanic,plumbing. You can start your own business when you walk out of there,that is the naivety of youth thinking that after you have studied a degree you will walk straight into a 30k job.

He seems to forget the situation of the country and lack of knowledge how it's operating and who is sitting behind the wheel,you can expect that from a young man who still needs his cup of reality.
 
porchrat said:
Fair enough. Unfortunately you're still a member of this movement and, seemingly like the rest of your mates, you support the blocking of entrances and the shutting down of the university (no lectures for anyone etc.). You guys aren't peaceful.

BTW did you ever answer my questions about your worldview? (you know... the ones about what gives you the right to bar people from doing something and under what circumstances am I justified in barring you from doing something? I'm genuinely interested in seeing whether or not it is internally consistent)
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Under such circumstances that its for a noble cause.
 
SammyD said:
Under such circumstances that its for a noble cause.
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Who judges what is and isn't a noble cause? By what objective standard do we make this determination?

I for example consider safeguarding the future of our universities in the face of their imminent destruction by protest a noble cause... am I now justified in barring you from protesting?
 
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Gonzo.B said:
I made a similar comment,which he could not respond to.

He keeps saying getting a degree will eradicate poverty because people will get a good job.

Not everyone is made out to major in business,why can't this government build more college's that offer courses for hands on things like electrician,mechanic,plumbing. You can start your own business when you walk out of there,that is the naivety of youth thinking that after you have studied a degree you will walk straight into a 30k job.

He seems to forget the situation of the country and lack of knowledge how it's operating and who is sitting behind the wheel,you can expect that from a young man who still needs his cup of reality.
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How is asking if I'm a wits student or you telling us your life story the same as what you just quoted above. By the way those colleges exists. They're called TVET colleges formerly FET colleges.
 
porchrat said:
I for example consider safeguarding the future of our universities in the face of their imminent destruction by protest a noble cause... am I now justified in barring you from protesting?
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Now that is a more sensible question.
 
porchrat said:
Who judges what is and isn't a noble cause? By what objective standard do we make this determination?

I for example consider safeguarding the future of our universities in the face of their imminent destruction by protest a noble cause... am I now justified in barring you from protesting?
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Your cause is noble but only not applicable for peaceful protests.
 
Jola said:
Now that is a more sensible question.
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I'm just trying to find out if he uses an "it's OK for me to do it, but not you" way of thinking.

To me human rights are human rights. You don't get to pick and choose when they're recognised. I'm sure Hitler felt his quest for racial purity was a noble cause too... does that justify what he did? This departure from recognising and respecting each other's human rights is potentially very dangerous.
 
porchrat said:
I'm just trying to find out if he uses an "it's OK for me to do it, but not you" way of thinking.

To me human rights are human rights. You don't get to pick and choose when they're recognised. I'm sure Hitler felt his quest for racial purity was a noble cause too... does that justify what he did? This departure from recognising and respecting each other's human rights is potentially very dangerous.
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Yes, I agree.

This whole movement seems to be pretty much a self-interest thing, where they couldn't give a stuff about anyone else, be they other students, poor people or whatever.

Very, very selfish.
 
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SammyD said:
Your cause is noble but only not applicable for peaceful protests.
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Even if you disregard all the obvious property damage, the violence and intimidation forcing the shutdown of these universities. Your protest, by your own admission, believes that preventing others from attending lectures and denying others freedom of movement and the right to freedom of disassociation is acceptable behaviour. I don't regard your protests as peaceful, I regard it as an infringement upon the rights of others, an attack on other people as determined by the highest law of our country, the Constitution.

So from my perspective the action of stopping you from protesting is noble. What makes your judgement supersede mine?
 
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