How the WITS student voting will work

SammyD said:
How is asking if I'm a wits student or you telling us your life story the same as what you just quoted above. By the way those colleges exists. They're called TVET colleges formerly FET colleges.
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Did i say they don't exist or did i say build MORE? Make access easier,cheaper,even free from the help of government. Free 6/12 month courses can help a lot more people than one person getting fully paid to study for 4 years that has a greater risk when u can fail a year.

At least with a trade college u get hands on experience from day one,so when you walk out of there u can start your own thing.
 
porchrat said:
Even if you disregard all the obvious property damage, the violence and intimidation forcing the shutdown of these universities. Your protest, by your own admission, believes that preventing others from attending lectures and denying others freedom of movement and the right to freedom of disassociation is acceptable behaviour. I don't regard your protests as peaceful, I regard it as an infringement upon the rights of others, an attack on other people as determined by the highest law of our country, the Constitution.

So from my perspective the action of stopping you from protesting is noble. What makes your judgement supersede mine?
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He's on the Deans List don't you know.
 
ToxicBunny said:
He's on the Deans List don't you know.
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You asked me what I did, I answered your question now its a point of sarcasm. Ok.

porchrat said:
Even if you disregard all the obvious property damage, the violence and intimidation forcing the shutdown of these universities. Your protest, by your own admission, believes that preventing others from attending lectures and denying others freedom of movement and the right to freedom of disassociation is acceptable behaviour. I don't regard your protests as peaceful, I regard it as an infringement upon the rights of others, an attack on other people as determined by the highest law of our country, the Constitution.

So from my perspective the action of stopping you from protesting is noble. What makes your judgement supersede mine?
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Nobility is subjective. We're never gonna agree no matter how many time you raise this conversation from the dead. That is why I keep saying, let's agree to disagree on it and move on.
 
SammyD said:
Nobility is subjective. We're never gonna agree no matter how many time you raise this conversation from the dead. That is why I keep saying, let's agree to disagree on it and move on.
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So your standard of when it is justifiable to infringe upon the rights of other human beings is subjective.

Your parents, grandparents and great grandparents fought very hard for those rights. Is it wise to treat them like they're not worth respecting?

I suggest you give this serious consideration.
 
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SammyD said:
Free higher education will ensure that a lot of our problems sort themselves out. Like poverty for example. Which will sort out housing problem and everything that goes with it like sanitation etc.
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Sorry boet, you really have no idea how the world works. Having a BCom Arts (whatever that may be) does not give you the knowledge (read wisdom) to fix plumbing problems (read sanitation).

Giving people useless degrees means bôggerôl. We need qualified artisans.
 
@SammyD: You also haven't answered Ponder's question as to what you are studying. I might even have sponsored you if you were studying a meaningful degree.
 
BigAl-sa said:
@SammyD: You also haven't answered Ponder's question as to what you are studying. I might even have sponsored you if you were studying a meaningful degree.
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He's on the Deans List for Engineering according to the picture he posted.
 
ToxicBunny said:
He's on the Deans List for Engineering according to the picture he posted.
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I missed that, but he must be way behind on his curriculum with the amount of time he spends here.

Maybe he should become a plumber instead?
 
Also, there was another oke who got a Rhodes scholarship who doesn't quite seem to be with it.

Who chooses these people?

As I mentioned in an earlier post I would go out of my way to help and support the okes who are trying to pass, not evade the issue.

The question remains, why is this university degree so important to someone who should not be there?
 
BigAl-sa said:
Sorry boet, you really have no idea how the world works. Having a BCom Arts (whatever that may be) does not give you the knowledge (read wisdom) to fix plumbing problems (read sanitation).

Giving people useless degrees means bôggerôl. We need qualified artisans.
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Who the hell said anything about useless degrees? Also you don't have to be a brick layer to have the capacity to buy a house, or a baker to have the capacity to buy bread. Not everyone needs to be a plumber or builder to lift themselves out of poverty. Someone who lives in an informal settlement can remove themselves from that situation without ever knowing any of the trades required in building a house but as an accountant they certainly can.
 
Seems like the criminals amongst them aren't interested in what the votes were. They will be pillaging until Jesus comes (which is apparently before the ANC rule is over)
 
SammyD said:
Who the hell said anything about useless degrees? Also you don't have to be a brick layer to have the capacity to buy a house, or a baker to have the capacity to buy bread. Not everyone needs to be a plumber or builder to lift themselves out of poverty. Someone who lives in an informal settlement can remove themselves from that situation without ever knowing any of the trades required in building a house but as an accountant they certainly can.
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Jô boet, your reasoning is scary. You get a useless degree, and you have no idea how the water (or electricity for that matter) gets to you and how it gets disposed?

FYI, I have yet to meet an accountant who can change the washer in a tap. As an "engineer", can you? We need people who can do these type of things, not more people with degrees.
 
BigAl-sa said:
Jô boet, your reasoning is scary. You get a useless degree, and you have no idea how the water (or electricity for that matter) gets to you and how it gets disposed?

FYI, I have yet to meet an accountant who can change the washer in a tap. As an "engineer", can you? We need people who can do these type of things, not more people with degrees.
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What the hell are you talking about? You were on about degrees won't teach you plumbing and therefore won't solve the poverty issue etc. I said you don't need that to know how to plumb when a plumber can do it for you. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be artisans. But students good enough for other professions shouldn't be denied the opportunity because of cost.

E.g Kid lives in an informal settlement. Gets tertiary education. Gets his accounting qualification. Either buys a house or has one built for his family. Poverty chain broken.
 
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SammyD said:
E.g Kid lives in an informal settlement. Gets tertiary education. Gets his accounting qualification. Either buys a house or has one built for his family. Poverty chain broken.
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Yes, and in order to pay for his free university education 1000 others in informal settlement don't get water or sanitation, etc.

Poverty chain intact forever.

NSFAS type solution would avoid this.
 
SammyD said:
E.g Kid lives in an informal settlement. Gets tertiary education. Gets his accounting qualification. Either buys a house or has one built for his family. Poverty chain broken.
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SammyD, The estimates for providing 'free' tertiary education range from 60-70 billion Rand annually. That is an estimate for those currently enrolled. It does not take into account how many students would suddenly swell the ranks if government paid for university fees.

Treasury had to fully deplete our emergency contingency reserve this year just to pay for public sector increases. Government also had to sell its whole stake in Vodacom to bail out Eskom just to keep them afloat. Could you please advise where in the budget you would cut R70 billion from to divert to students? Perhaps from our hospitals and clinics? Our public schools? Our ailing infrastructure budget, which is supposedly set to increase drastically if we implement the NDP.

Even if we cut corruption down to 0% (never going to happen with the ANC), according to the auditor general there was only about R30 billion in 'irregular expenditure' last year. So that only covers about half our estimate.

Also take into account, our economy is growing at 0%, which in real terms factoring in population growth means that we are actually shrinking. So expecting the private sector to cough up R60 billion a year, would mean all that money is further sucked out of the economy, which leads to even more unemployment and less growth and tax income.

Its all very nice that you are militant and angry and demand and demand. But you need to get real. Even if we wanted to, we could not provide free education for students. We are not Norway with 5% unemployment, and some of the highest GDP per capita in the world.
 
@sammyD if government implements a 50% subsidy,reducing study fee's to half for everyone,what would u say to that?
 
It's not free.
You end up paying for the rest of your life even If you never study a day in your life.
 
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