How will the ANC rig this election?

Before Mandela came into power, people were very apprehensive about him. Before 5 years were over everyone was eating from his hand.

When Mandela was about to go and Mbeki was about to take office, people were apprehensive that he wouldn't be able to pull it off. But they speak fondly of him now.

In the same way, people are apprehensive about Zuma. I personally see that Zuma will be at least 4 times better than Mbeki, because he is not as stubborn and aloof as Mbeki. The ANC under Zuma will be a better ANC, without all the self-serving cancer which has now joined COPE.

Ah so we have a ANC canvasser between our midst.

Cope is not the cancer. The ANC is the one rotting. Cope is the only meat that did not yet rot down to the bone, yet.

The ANC SPEAKING FONDLY of Mbeki, thats a new one. Is that how they treat "fond" members/leaders. Shows the rot.
 
South Africa is part and parcel of Africa and are going the same route as others that fauled before and will fail again.

They ARE the ANC and their comrades that will vote them back in power forever more no matter which crook may lead the country next. Forgive and forget is the moto.

Viva Madiba, allas it was but short living and will never be the same again.

Next president: Zuma the crook.
Future candidate: wait for it.

Wait for it:

Militant General Julius Malema. Future president when Zuma gets kicked out for moving too centrist. (Same fate as Mbeki will follow Zuma. Only sooner)
 
Zuma not stubborn? Umm he is fighting until the end to seize power in SA even though he should step down and hand over the reigns of the country to someone who is not in trouble with the law.

He has no choice. People want him to be president. If he steps down now, the ANC may just lose a lot of votes. When no-one thought the guy could survive the onslaught against him, his supporters braved the cold to keep vigil. When he breaks into song, everyone joins.

If Zuma is to step down, he will probably do it after the April elections and the dark horse, Kgalema Motlanthe will take the reigns. This way, his (Zuma's) supporters will see it not as quitting in the line of enemy fire. If he were to quit now, people would be very disappointed and the ANC would have to drum up support for a new leader. Why not use what you already have?
 
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Did the judge say it in the end or didn't he? I have found so many places that say he never actually said it.

Easy, here is the full Hillary Squires judgement on the Shaik trial.

http://http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Shaik_trial/0,,2-7-1708_1718857,00.html

...It would be flying in the face of commonsense and ordinary human nature to think that he did not realise the advantages to him of continuing to enjoy Zuma's goodwill to an even greater extent than before 1997; and even if nothing was ever said between them to establish the mutually beneficial symbiosis that the evidence shows existed, the circumstances of the commencement and the sustained continuation thereafter of these payments, can only have generated a sense of obligation in the recipient....
 
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How has Zuma not participated with the investigation?
In September 2006, Judge Msimang ruled against the NPA when he ruled that they proceed with the trial, but since they were not ready, he struck the case off the roll. The NPA was asking for a postponement not Zuma.
How could they have not been ready when they had been investigating him since 2003.
They eventually recharged him, but he challenge that indictment in court and was Judge Nicholson ruled in his favour. Instead of giving Zuma an opportunity to make representations the NPA decided to appeal the decision. Again who is causing the delay?
The SCA has ruled in their favour and Zuma is rightly so apealling the ruling with the highest court. In the meantime they are taking his representations. What's really going on here? Couldn't they have given the opportunity to make these represetations after judge Nicholson ruling?

In the meantime the trial by media and innuendo is continuing and the NPA is getting all the mileage it desires from this 'trial'.
If it was me:

I would have gotten certified copies of the original transaction from the French sources that I had dealt with and handed it over to the Law representatives.

I would have provided bank statements on all my accounts for the periods 5 months up and down from the transaction.

i.e. I would allow access of every shred of evidence requested.

I would also do everything within my power to speed up the trial, and have my name cleared. Simply because I understand that I am a figure in the public eye, and as such, have above average levels of responsibility.

I would not appeal and complain when new evidence arrives, and try to get the new evidence disallowed.

This is the act of a guilty man, or, the act of a man hell bent on embarrassing the very top level or our law.

Either way, this is not a man that radiates honesty and integrity. This is not a man that I can trust.

It's so obvious, I cannot understand all the blind eye stuff.
 
Sorry brilliantt - but in the spirit of open debate I must disagree. Zuma is not the innocent victim you proclaim him to be. When he came into power at Polokwane, there began a mass cleansing of the ANC ranks - anyone that wasn't a JZ supporter inevitably found themselves ousted. Check the news - all those people leaving ANC for COPE are saying the same thing: the ANC is fast becoming a one-man show.
IOL Politics (Election 2009)
'ANC is a mad house so I'm joining COPE'

While we may argue about who is at the top, I urge you to take a look at the past 14 years. Take a look at the promises made, and then look for the service delivery - or in most cases, lack of. Then ask yourself this: Do you want your tax money to work for you, or not? For me it's not about Jacob, Helen or even Terror. It's about voting in a government that will work for me.

Now granted, I've never voted ANC. Let's be clear on where we stand here. That doesn't mean I wouldn't - if the policies they presented were solid, clear, and delivered on. But let's face it - they haven't. That is all I need to make my decision. No amount of friendly dancing, singing and shouting down the opponent is going to change that.
 
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Thanks so it was just a different way of saying it. ;)

not quite,

...you see there could have been an intention to corrupt from Shabir which is not to say the reverse was true on Zuma's side. Unless there is proof that there are untoward things that Zuma did for Shaik in return for all those payments. So far I haven't heard of such evidence...

Here's is an example,
I'm the manager and one of my subordinates, John keeps buying me lunch at work, and thus brags to everybody that the two of us are tight like that. His real motive could be to get a promotion, but unless that intention is expressed to me, I will keep enjoying the lunches in the meatime thinking to myself "what a nice fellow this John is".
To prove that John is corrupt you just have to trace the lunches he bought and let him give the reason for it, failing which he can be guilty of corruption.
However to prove that I was corrupt, you have to prove that I knew what John was doing, and have since promoted him as resulted.
 
They ARE the ANC and their comrades that will vote them back in power forever more no matter which crook may lead the country next. Forgive and forget is the moto. [\quote]

No they vote out of principle because they've been made to believe that any other vote is a vote for the white man, and as majority of them have a hate for the white man and seek revenge, it doesn't take rocket science to put two and two together....
 
not quite,

...you see there could have been an intention to corrupt from Shabir which is not to say the reverse was true on Zuma's side. Unless there is proof that there are untoward things that Zuma did for Shaik in return for all those payments. So far I haven't heard of such evidence...

Here's is an example,
I'm the manager and one of my subordinates, John keeps buying me lunch at work, and thus brags to everybody that the two of us are tight like that. His real motive could be to get a promotion, but unless that intention is expressed to me, I will keep enjoying the lunches in the meatime thinking to myself "what a nice fellow this John is".
To prove that John is corrupt you just have to trace the lunches he bought and let him give the reason for it, failing which he can be guilty of corruption.
However to prove that I was corrupt, you have to prove that I knew what John was doing, and have since promoted him as resulted.

But the zuma camp has basically moved on from all this, and are now calling for the people to rule instead of the courts to bypass "rules" and let biased opinion decide. They are promoting zuma, not as "non-corrupt", but as "possibly corrupt, but so what". Most zuma fanbois openly admit they couldn't really care if he is corrupt or not, and that he probably is. Interesting.
 
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I do...
Your situation is not the the same as the vast majority of white people? correct? But are you treated like the majority? Yep and i wish that would change.

EE for the most part has brought some fairness into the workplace.

WHAT A LOAD OF FCKN KUUUUUUUUUK!
Vegeta I for one have read all your post right NOW YOU RACIST $#%^!

I'm white:
19 going 20:
Male:
Got my gr12

Thats ALL I have.

I come from nothing NO rich WHITE* fam as you claim I went to the orphanage at Durbanville in bellville when I was 3 the fam I'm with my mother age 48 grew up also as nothing she waiterd to pay her education as a teacher and my dad did the same but worked at the air port to save up.

In the last 20 years of my life my fam managed to come from NOTHING NOT ANY WHITE BONUSES and benefits THE Others "allegedly" received from apartheid.

My fam moved around a lot in times it went bad that we lived on the street and I have been working all my life odd jobs!

WE SUFFERED HAD OUR OWN BIGGER STRUGGLE!

NOW I am with only my gr12 have to work which I'm finding hard VERY hard to find due to fact that I was turned away and reasons given to me was my race and the companies still seek workers till this date "FUNNY"

I have to save up can barely buy food and we lost our home recently cause of the economy that crippled our exporting business that we had all our money and assets in.

SO WHY IN THE WORLD because your granddad got screwed now you can leech of me cause I'm white.

"f**k you" Since today I was not racist at all but starting today all "the people benefiting from my suffering will be on my hate list for life"

Who is going to fix MY wrong doing I was BORN WHITE but in a SUPER poor FAM and I'm speaking ON BEHALF OF THE OTHER POOR POOR 5mil+ WHITE S.A people STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEAT!

To say rich people are white IS RACIST you twat, most of the white people I know are poor and the EE crap is not effecting THE WHITES THAT CAN GO over seas or get other jobs NO its KILLING US POOR DUDES. I don't know where you live but have you ever heard of kraaifontein and the places behind it Poor whites?

Most WHITES are plumbers, hair dressers and low level entry workers HOW THE FCK DOES KILLING PEOPLES LIVELY HOODS TO FIX people FROM THE PAST Help sh*T!?!?!CAUSING MORE POOR = I don't have a secondary education in economics or these things but any idiot can figure out THIS IS DISGUSTINGLY WRONG it ain't helping NO ONE!

I can go and claim NO a black zulu killed my greater grand dad in some war NOW I can't drive my Lamborghini...F**k yOU! (This did in fact happen and he wasn't part of the soldiers my fam is originally from Russia)

I'm WHITE I'm MALE I have VERY GOOD gr12 grades and I CAN'T AFFORD to STUDY or get a car like most whites No I bought my self a scooter that I payed for SELF slaving my but off at a take away to make a living and trying to study FREE A+ and N+ over the internet that I'm paying cause it is my only source of education and then saving up for the exams that would take a billion years on my salary.

SO NEXT time you want this whole no people from the past got wronged oooh booh haaaa.

where does it leave me I tell you where U get that job get rich one day I'll be the BERGIE killing you in your sleep for R20 to buy some bread.(just a example)

Life is NOT fair and being a white male like ME makes it unlivable but at least I try and I am VOTING DA CAUSE it is the only way I can get a better job so I can save up for studies when they remove this racial work thing.

Sorry for the anger just struck a nerve seeing that you moan about a piece of land at least you have not lived on the streets like I have going with out food.

But voting for a PARTY is not just Better service oh look fixed a pot hole oooh free house DUH thank you zuma no!

It IS to some the only hope THE ONLY to get out of a mess caused BY OTHER People's wrong doings NOT mine!

People SHOULD be treated fairly because IT IS PEOPLES LIVES YOU ARE MESSING WITH and no one cares about us poor whites and MOST OF US POOR WHITES are 20-30 WE I GUARANTEE YOU WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH APARTHEID and that is WHY I will NEVER VOTE ANC because I'm LIVING IN WHITE APARTHEID ANC=MY VERY OWN NP TODAY!

But I registered to vote last year and read each day hoping COPE will draw half the ANC's votes leaving the DA to win!

DA=GOOD LAWS GOOD ECONOMICS NO RACISM how a country should be!
 
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not quite,

...you see there could have been an intention to corrupt from Shabir which is not to say the reverse was true on Zuma's side. Unless there is proof that there are untoward things that Zuma did for Shaik in return for all those payments. So far I haven't heard of such evidence...

The issue was that JZ was at that stage MEC in KZN where certain tenders were given to Schabir's company. That was the quid pro quo.

The judge went further than just mentioning an intention to corrupt. He said these two had a generally corrupt relationship.
 
The usual ANC tactics:
- Build and Encourage a group of loud mouth youths to intimidate the voters. Make them wear the "colours", you know - represent and all, bus them around everywhere, and pay them for their efforts, and actively encourage them to get violent at the opposition, but deny deny deny that you are encouraging violence at every opportunity.
- Provide the most excellent service levels starting 3 months before the elections start, but only in areas where there have been low service levels before, and in those areas your marketing campaign is about service levels. Purposefully neglect the areas with lower population levels, even if those levels represent the tax paying money. Encourage the "we are looking after you, not them" mentality, but ... secretly in the open like.
- Have long meetings with your allies, the traditional leaders and kings and stuff, discussing the agenda for the next year, including the financial arrangements, and the overseas "holidays" that all traditional leaders must attend. Gather a listing of the project or two that the traditional leader managed to launch that are actually still running, just incase these projects actually exist. Hand out key speech phrases that the traditional leaders must use as they move amongst their constituents. Use these key phrases in the ANC marketing campaign, use examples of successful projects in speeches at gatherings. One of the key-phrases is very similar to "us and them". Teh word struggle usually works well enough.
- Gather funding from all the BEE businesses that you now claim owe you for their existence. Encourage these leaders within these business to actively hold business parties for any business success, and at these business parties, to recite a "history of the company" and use the us and them and struggle words a lot.
- This one is new, and it's brilliant : Create a party that pretends to be your competition, whatever seats this party wins will simply follow your party's voting in parliment. This "opposition" party is also going to be extremely useful for undertaking the more messy tasks in the future. If you doubt that the opposition party is a lie, ask yourself where this opposition party got it's funding from. And, yes, the "opposition" is spending like crayzee. Also, ask yourself why on earth these 2 seem to get media coverage at exactly the same time.

They fight dirty, having years and years of experience in population mind-control techniques, the ANC is a force that has to be dealt with by out-performing them with 1/100th of their budget. The real ANC competition is the party that is closest to actually out-performing them.

This means that amount of work that the ANC has to do to keep the population happy is increasing every year, while the real competition builds up it's own list of achievements. Because the ANC's list of achievements during their elected term is increasing, they're actually quite a useful party to run a country. However, their "friend hiring and protecting" policies cost them a lot on the achievements list, and hurt the country, but, friends and comrades are required to achieve the ultimate goal, the USAfrica. Watching Zim run down and then sneaking your money into the country so that it becomes the new trade standard is just another way to take control of a country. Official political opposition will only rise once there is a hero angle, much like South Africa's anti-apartheid hero angle was used.

One thing will be different this year though, they will be cutting down on promises. And will instead focus on the competition, self - created or real competition. The self-created competition is a much easier marketing tool to use than promises, because promises raise the expectation levels of the voters, something that you want to avoid.

Viva ANC!
:sick:

well said:)
 
I, for one, don't want to be in a country where the majority are so stupid as to want Jacob Zuma as their leader.

Now that is just wrong, you've taken it up to yourself to insult South Africans. People like you IMO do not deserve to be in South Africa, or to be South African.

Let the people make their choice, thats what democracy is all about. The americans managed to elect Bush, despite certain opinions of others, I don't see why people cannot choose their own leader and be limited to allegations. Just because Zille is labeled racist that does not mean I cannot vote for her, no court has found her to be racist, only public opinion.

Q1. Suppose you were Zuma, and you knew that you were guilty what would you do?

Q2. Suppose then that you believe that there is a conspiracy against you and to the best of your memory recollection your innocent and free of corruption. What would you do?

-----------------------If it was ME, I would
To question1, I would step down as a presidential candidate in the interest of the country.

To question2, I would fight the allegations/charges to the end, because should I step down, then this would be seen as admission to guilt.
-----------------------Lets not forget that despite all the politics, media and courts, Zuma is human, there are two possibilities here, guilty and innocence, for now he will assume the latter, until the courts prove him otherwise

A point of thought. I will not be voting for ANC, I don't even know if I will be allowed to vote(expat):rolleyes:
 
Now that is just wrong, you've taken it up to yourself to insult South Africans. People like you IMO do not deserve to be in South Africa, or to be South African.

People like you... why can't you vote are you overseas?
You obviously have no idea how the majority of S.A people are.
They believe in witch doctors, they believe in that Xhosa women should cut one of their fingers off and men the fore skins to show that they are true xhosa they cling to old traditions and mentalities.

THEY THINK LIKE CAVE MEN IN SOME CASES.
Their minds are filled with propaganda and lies like for instance about whites, "all whites are racist" "all whites rapped pillaged killed and plundered their forefathers" all whites hate people of different race"

They have this mentality to get revenge NO JOKE.
(got together to kill Zimbabweans one of my friends is from there and they stole all he had cause of it!
This is not just some opinion this is almost fact go to rural communities they teach their children these things.

*note I said majority I did not say all of them. The reasons if you took History you would surely understand why they have these mentalities, I do not blame them for thinking like in fact I have deep sympathy for them that is being brainwashed. The biggest racist driving this country into the ground is casato and the ANC youth league.
 
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People like you... why can't you vote are you overseas?
You obviously have no idea how the majority of S.A people are.
They believe in witch doctors, they believe in that Xhosa women should cut one of their fingers off and men the fore skins to show that they are true xhosa they cling to old traditions and mentalities.

THEY THINK LIKE CAVE MEN IN SOME CASES.
Their minds are filled with propaganda and lies like for instance about whites, "all whites are racist" "all whites rapped pillaged killed and plundered their forefathers" all whites hate people of different race"

They have this mentality to get revenge NO JOKE.
(got together to kill Zimbabweans one of my friends is from there and they stole all he had cause of it!
This is not just some opinion this is almost fact go to rural communities they teach their children these things.

*note I said majority I did not say all of them. The reasons if you took History you would surely understand why they have these mentalities, I do not blame them for thinking like in fact I have deep sympathy for them that is being brainwashed. The biggest racist driving this country into the ground is casato and the ANC youth league.

You are a prime example of a racist and you don't even have the balls to admit it.STFU.
 
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