Hunting : The right to hunt ?

[Nishano]

Hi,

This is a thread to better understand the concept of hunting in a modern time and the validity of taking up the so called sport.

This is not an Anti hunting thread, its merely a forum in order to gauge a better understanding of the sport and
the rationality that sits on the trigger finger of the hunter.

Id like to know from a grass roots level, what is the attraction, validation and conscious decision to engage in it.

Your honesty and tempered replies are appreciated.

 

[satanboy]

I cannot fathom the attraction.

 

[DrJohnZoidberg]

I cannot fathom the attraction.

I cannot see the attraction either. Killing things for fun has never really been my favourite pastime.

I do however see a side of it that makes sense, humans have been hunting for generations. It could be ingrained into the biology of certain groups of people and they just need to feed the instinct.

For me, not so much.

 

[karnuffel]

I hunt with a bow and for me it is a combination of spending time in nature, spending time with my friends and the challenge of doing it. I currently have a very low success rate but there is just something amazing about a successful harvest. You learn a lot about yourself and quite a few lessons while stalking.

EDIT:
On a side note, I am all for using what you hunt/harvest. I cannot see why we have to shoot at animals such as lions etc.

 

[satanboy]

I hunt with a bow and for me it is a combination of spending time in nature, spending time with my friends and the challenge of doing it. I currently have a very low success rate but there is just something amazing about a successful harvest. You learn a lot about yourself and quite a few lessons while stalking.
...

What is wrong with a target?

 

[karnuffel]

What is wrong with a target?

I cant eat it?

 

[Pitbull]

It's about all the men going to the bush, taking your laaitjies with you and just enjoying nature. The braais, booze and stories around the camp fire. The fact of getting back to nature past were we had to hunt for our food for survival. Teaching the young ones the art of stalking and how to shoot.

The hunt itself is not a "sport" for us Biltong hunters. It's about bonding with your son and eating nice biltong through out the winter months. It also helps with conservation. If it was not for the hunting trade most of the wild in SA would have been wiped out already.

 

[karnuffel]

It's about all the men going to the bush, taking your laaitjies with you and just enjoying nature. The braais, booze and stories around the camp fire. The fact of getting back to nature past were we had to hunt for our food for survival. Teaching the young ones the art of stalking and how to shoot.

The hunt itself is not a "sport" for us Biltong hunters. It's about bonding with your son and eating nice biltong through out the winter months. It also helps with conservation. If it was not for the hunting trade most of the wild in SA would have been wiped out already.

My hunting buddy always says: "I taught him how to hunt so I dont have to hunt for him"...

 

[Nishano]

It's about all the men going to the bush, taking your laaitjies with you and just enjoying nature. The braais, booze and stories around the camp fire. The fact of getting back to nature past were we had to hunt for our food for survival. Teaching the young ones the art of stalking and how to shoot.

The hunt itself is not a "sport" for us Biltong hunters. It's about bonding with your son and eating nice biltong through out the winter months. It also helps with conservation. If it was not for the hunting trade most of the wild in SA would have been wiped out already.

Thanks for the insights,

Until this point , I didn't really think of the family/friend bonding aspect to it. The concept of sharing the spoils of war.
I do get it, Its been part of our ancestry.

This said, is it imperative to join the hunt and course harm, seemingly in "unjust" way ?

The reason i use the word "unjust" , as it is not imperative to your survival to do so, the hunt is fueled more by fun, adventure, excitement, rather than survival, and the term unjust is taken form the animals life, as it has been unjustly treated.

In retort, Many do enjoy a large share of outdoor activities with friends and family without the hunt.

@Pitbull @jouda I respect the consumption of the targets/animal, It gives you the understanding of how the food was obtained as opposed to turning a blind eye to the production and merely consuming with no awareness.

Thank you.

P.S> @Pitbull With regards to conservation and trophy hunting. The matter of conservation through hunting for betterment of a species is a morally grey area,

Many argue that it is not morally correct to fuel the existence of a species by allowing the few of the species to embody suffering that occurs through the hunt.

It goes as far as believing that a species should rather be brought to extinction rather than permit suffering onto the few.

@jouda
Cross bow hunting is far more skillful and when compared to rifle hunting. I do respect the tracking and aiming skill that is alot more difficult to master in comparison.
On the flip side, its still an unfair advantage over the target.

@satanboy @DrJohnZoidberg

Valid points on how our ancestors hunted and it is the reason on why we are a dominant species.
Aspects of hunting in the modern era are far more associated with "sport" rather than survival.
MY question is trying to understand the moral high ground one takes when hunting.

 

[Rubberpigg]

The hunters I know are all short in stature.
Very possible that the Napoleon complex, or "short man syndrome" is at work when it comes to hunting.

 

[w1z4rd]

I know on our farms we have to cull to keep populations down, so we cull once a year during hunting season. Ill go shoot one animal a year. Its not really a sport to me, its something I do to keep the farm healthy and to get enough biltong and venison to last for many months. Since I was brought up on a farm it was never a sporting thing to me, it was a practical thing.

I dont trophy hunt and I get no great joy in shooting an animal. If I want to have fun with a firearm I do clay pigeon shooting.

 

[FNfal]

I have done my share of hunting for the pot .
But if you want some excitement hunt wild pig in the sugar cane , mainly at night .
My one friend was nearly taken out by a wild pig on one of these hunts .
Sugar cane farmers us madumbies as a cash crop and the wild pigs sometimes decimate the crop.

Wild pig is the best meat i have ever eaten especially on a spit.

 

[Beachless]

I am not a big hunter but I find the idea that they are blamed for cruel animal slaughter quite strange. If you eat meat you are responsible for the death of animals for you dietary purposes. Now most people will say that abattoirs are much more humane but if you follow the supply chain is it really better to have animals put under stress for days on end while they are trucked around, sent from holding pen to holding pen and then killed(never mind the Halal ones)?
I have been to great hunting farms where inexperienced hunters are accompanied by professional ones so that if the animal is wounded their suffering can be limited. I think the biggest problem is that people think that meat from a shop is somehow from a animal who lived his life in perfect conditions and died of natural causes this is not the case and to me hunting makes one understand what the animal has sacrificed to be on your plate.

 

[Nishano]

@Beachless completely agree, and it seems for the most part that hunters have a better understanding or awareness of where their food comes from. Valid points on the consumption of animal based product and possible higher cruelty that is experienced in the abattoir. I really like the last point " understand what the animal has sacrificed to be on your plate. "

@FNfal very interesting and reasoning for protecting crops,
So hunting to protect ones material...its a new point and reasoning I haven't actually thought about. Thanks.

All this, I still feel that the animal is treated unjustly in the process.


@ghoti Thanks for the comments on culling and process you shared. Also, Clay pigeon shooting takes higher skill-set compared to hunting, your sincerity is appreciated.

So far we have :

Hunting for sport.
Hunting for Family/friend bonding
Hunting on protecting of material
Hunting for the purpose of culling

It giving me more understanding into the concept and culture of Hunting...

All this, I still feel that moral obligation is vaded towards the target animal.

Rubberpigg mention Napolean complex, and I can understand why, there is a stereo type that can be involved with Hunters.
Though, after the comments here that demonstrate the sensibility of hunters. Stereo typing for the most part is unfair.

I am still struggling with the morality question of hunting. It is not subtle, we are not dealing material possession, we're dealing with life and the ending of it.

 

[copacetic]

As a person that eats meat, I don't have any way to logically object to the practice, provided the intent is for utility and not sport for the sake of killing. I begin to rationalise this by thinking along the lines of 'there are legal obligations to minimise the suffering of slaughtered animals, etc, etc'... But in practice, I think we all know this is often not the case (and practically, I cannot afford to eat the finest meat, obtained from happy pastured cows with a gentle history).

Personally, I find something distasteful about it, yet paradoxically I suspect I would enjoy being involved in a hunt.

I feel very strongly that trophy hunting is morally abhorrent, yet there is the argument that it brings in money for conservation.

All in all, it's a difficult issue to form an opinion of, as a meat-eater, I find.

 

[murraybiscuit]

Fun fact. Napoleon wasn't actually short relative to the average population of the time. From wiki:

Napoleon's height was actually average for his time period; the average 18th-century Frenchman stood at 5 ft 2 in (1.57 m).[4] Historians have now suggested Napoleon was 5 ft 6 in (1.68 m) tall. Napoleon was often seen with his Imperial Guard, which contributed to the perception of his being short because the Imperial Guards were above average height.

 

[murraybiscuit]

I am still struggling with the morality question of hunting. It is not subtle, we are not dealing material possession, we're dealing with life and the ending of it.

I'm not really getting why you see hunting as a special case. If you see certain animal rights as being inalienable, you should have an issue with all meat eating. Which is preferable: allowing animals to roam free before killing them, or altering the genetics, feed, choice of mate, social structure and environment of an entire species purely for human consumption?

IMO hunting probably has the best potential for an animal to maximize happiness if meat eating is 'morally acceptable'. The animal lives in its natural habitat its entire life and then dies. Whether that's at the hand of a human or lion is of no consequence to the dead animal. The human death is probably preferable to the death by predator.

I don't really get the point of bow hunting. Generally because it's a lower percentage game on bigger animals. If you're going to take a life, why dilly-dally? Killing predators makes no sense to me, as that's just not a sustainable way to manage natural resources. There are arguments for the profits of limited 'trophy hunting' being able to bring a greater good for wildlife in general. As a utilitarian, I find such arguments hard to fault. If, by killing one member of a species, you could ensure the survival of the rest of the species, would you do it? Maybe it's a false dichotomy.

The male bonding argument provides some form of rationale, but isn't a moral argument. Camaraderie can be achieved without killing things.

You raise the point of possession vs taking the life of the animal. If by possession you mean domestication, that raises other questions about the 'rights' of other animals. Do animals have 'rights' because we accord them? If so, how are these rights accorded, who determines which candidates are eligible, how do you separate humans from other natural predators etc? It also raises larger issues around the capital ownership of another life. If you believe in freedom and self-determination for animals, where do the boundaries lie? These are better left for another thread, but present the other side of the coin.

 

[Wag]

Hate the practice of hunting, dislike hunters in a big way but love biltong. One serious hypocrite.

 

[Arzy]

I haven't personally gone hunting in a couple of years, just been too busy. It was a regular institution in the family however.

Things that stand out as reasons why we went hunting:

- it was a bonding experience;
- it was a learning experience;
- it provided some very decent meals.

We don't trophy hunt, no point to it, everything we shoot is for our own consumption be it as biltong or meat. In some instances it has been cheaper R/kg to hunt than buy beef from a butcher.

I personally don't believe there is a moral aspect to hunting for subsistence, you either do it or you don't. If you don't personally approve of it, don't eat my biltong or steaks while complaining.

On the flip side though, if the question is limited to trophy hunting it's a different story, now morality comes into it.

 

[dreamrobin]

I cannot fathom the attraction.

I cannot comprehend it either, people feel a sense of achievement from this.