'I am a non-voting Atheist'

[murraybiscuit]

the argument put forward around a vote having no purpose seems to be based on a few main premises:

1. you can predict with a reasonable amount of certainty the outcome of the election
2. or, the parties with the highest chances of winning generally don't differ much in terms of policy
3. federal power is everything and local authority is meaningless

this may be the case in countries which are culturally homogenous or have an overwhelming majority population group with a similar socio-economic status,
but, how about countries emerging from totalitarianism, which haven't yet set a precedent for popular rulership?
or countries which have a fairly even ethnic split or which are evenly fragmented?
is voting still meaningless in these contexts?
even if the majority of the country determines your macro policies, surely your vote has influence in your ward and at a local level?
forgive me if i'm misunderstanding the argument.

 

[Alestorm]

i agree with your point of public servants being appointed on merit, but i fail to see how democracy precludes meritocracy.

It doesn't of course, but it might look that way. The way I see it it's simply politics, the game of having politicians garner votes, that messes everything up. You get people who are qualified to nothing except be politicians (i.e. sugar-coat things, lie, get votes etc) running the country. Nobody should be chosen to lead any position by a popular vote imo. It is very hard to find a different and fair system though.

 

[murraybiscuit]

It doesn't of course, but it might look that way. The way I see it it's simply politics, the game of having politicians garner votes, that messes everything up. You get people who are qualified to nothing except be politicians (i.e. sugar-coat things, lie, get votes etc) running the country. Nobody should be chosen to lead any position by a popular vote imo. It is very hard to find a different and fair system though.

that i can agree with. i'm interested in hearing about alternatives if they have succeeded elsewhere.

 

[Hard Rain]

that i can agree with. i'm interested in hearing about alternatives if they have succeeded elsewhere.

Society without the nation-state? Rothbard shows that this is the way for peace, prosperity, security, and freedom for all. In the entire history of libertarian ideas, no book has more successfully combined ideological rigor, theoretical exposition, political rhetoric, historical illustration, and strategic acumen. Rothbard poured a lifetime of research and all his intellectual energy into this project and he succeeded in writing a classic.

For a New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard. Available online for free.

 

[LazyLion]

Did you even read WilD_CaT's post?

No, it's my democratic right not to have to read posts that I want to reply to on this forum!

armchair activists FTW! I'm gonna stay at home and let other people run the country for me.
But I also reserve the right to bitch and whine about the state of this country, just don't expect me to lift a damn finger to do anything about it. :erm:

 

[zippy]

By not voting, you implicity say to the rest of the country, " I am cool with whatever you decide"

You have every right not to vote and then to bitch and whine about the way the country is. However, that means that you are thick because you had the chance to participate and you where to bone lazy to get off your butt and vote. You have a right to be thick as well.

 

[w1z4rd]

I have no time for people who dont believe in democracy. Fk off to China if you dont like democracy.

Its like saying "I dont believe in human rights" or "I dont believe in having a police or judicial system". If you wanna go to countries that dont have democracy, human rights, judicial systems" then seriously, stop wasting the resources in this country and fk off to China or North Korea.

You do not deserve the privileges afforded by a democracy. If you are too useless to be a real citizen then go somewhere else.

 

[Sonic2k]

I did some thread review here this morning..

did the registration this weekend... done!

Now I don't normally vote but this time I am making an exception as I feel, what I am going to do, ie scratch the ballot, will have a far greater impact on the ANC than staying away. I surmise someone is going to see my ballot paper and think... maybe their thoughts will start, however small, the actions necessary to force the ANC to pull its head out of its arse!

 

[Maddmatt]

I did some thread review here this morning..

did the registration this weekend... done!

Now I don't normally vote but this time I am making an exception as I feel, what I am going to do, ie scratch the ballot, will have a far greater impact on the ANC than staying away. I surmise someone is going to see my ballot paper and think... maybe their thoughts will start, however small, the actions necessary to force the ANC to pull its head out of its arse!

Voting for another party will do more to scare the ANC than scratching a ballot.
ANC think? Don't be silly

 

[Palimino]

Its like saying "I dont believe in human rights" or "I dont believe in having a police or judicial system".

And SA does? They’re being eroded as we speak.

 

[Palimino]

In the entire history of libertarian ideas, no book has more successfully combined ideological rigor, theoretical exposition, political rhetoric, historical illustration, and strategic acumen. Rothbard poured a lifetime of research and all his intellectual energy into this project and he succeeded in writing a classic.

For a New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard. Available online for free.

NOTE: I don’t know this author but I have a general notion of the Libertarian stance. They have very good ideas. This Rothbard is probably worth reading for an overview.

 

[murraybiscuit]

Society without the nation-state? Rothbard shows that this is the way for peace, prosperity, security, and freedom for all. In the entire history of libertarian ideas, no book has more successfully combined ideological rigor, theoretical exposition, political rhetoric, historical illustration, and strategic acumen. Rothbard poured a lifetime of research and all his intellectual energy into this project and he succeeded in writing a classic.

For a New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard. Available online for free.

thanks. i keep on running into that blooming mises site.
rothbard's book looks very interesting... downloading now.
i also like the libertarian theory from what i've read of it.
unfortunately the idealism of libertarianism and the reality of statism seem very hard to reconcile in our current world.

 

[cpu.]

I think we should have elections every year. That way the grass will be cut, pot holes filled, corruption addressed and politicians jump through hoops ALL the time.

 

[The_Assimilator]

Its like saying "I dont believe in human rights" or "I dont believe in having a police or judicial system".

No it isn't. Please, if you're going to spout ridiculous statements, at least have some evidence for them.

And I find it really rich that a self-proclaimed liberal like you is preaching "DEMOCRACY OR NOTHING". Just like the far right, the far left refuses to make compromises, or admit that it's wrong, or that there may be another, better way. You're all so hung up on the idea of democracy uber alles that you can't see what a mess you're all making of the world.

 

[WilD_CaT]

By actually getting off their lazy fat arses and actually doing something constructive about this country rather than letting others do their thinking and campaigning for them.
But then you probably don't pay any taxes either or contribute to this country in any meaningful way.

If only a few percent of the 30% of people who don't vote in SA decided to make the effort to turn the idiot box off for a few minutes, put their beer down, get their creaking fat frames up out of their chairs and vote for change in this country, it would mean the ANC would lose any hope of a 2/3rds majority, meaning we deny them the opportunity to force through any more of their corrupt and racist laws.

Then, in the next election we take a few more percentage points away from them, and again and again, until they lose all credibility and a different more constructive party comes to power.

By not voting all you are saying is you are lazy, ignorant, uneducated and couldn't give a damn. Sorry it hurts so much to hear it, but it's true.

If the non-voters are so smart, perhaps they have a valid reason for not voting. Did that even cross your mind?

 

[joy_Energiser]

So you are saying because I don't waste my time in a futile exercise I am worthy of being shot?

I pay my taxes (I believe I am taxed almost to death)
I contribute to society
I work hard to provide for my family

And now because I choose to spend my time wisely and not waste it on a pointless exercise, knowing we have a totalitarian government who does as it wishes, in place, I am now deserving of death.

Who the hell do you think you are?

Sigh, you just don't get it.I hope stupidity isn't contagious.

 

[Beri]

Shame.

 

[LazyLion]

If the non-voters are so smart, perhaps they have a valid reason for not voting. Did that even cross your mind?

No, but it did cross my mind that they are leeches on society.

 

[MiY4Gi]

Sigh, you just don't get it.I hope stupidity isn't contagious.

Sure it is. How else do you explain ANC winning the elections every time?

 

[The_Assimilator]

No, but it did cross my mind that they are leeches on society.

I'm a hard-working taxpayer, but because I don't vote I'm just as bad as the ANC members who have never paid tax in their lives, yet vote every time they get the opportunity?

Wow. Just, wow.

http://www.plognark.com/Art/Sketches/Blogsketches/2008/thestupiditburns.jpg