ICASA ADSL Draft Regulations

[Peter_J]

We have been told that:

"Given current technology, and the appropriate switching infrastructure, it is possible to increase system capacity on SAT-3/WASC to 120Gbs and on SAFE to 130Gbs."

I believe Karnaugh is being typically pessimistic in saying:

Lets assume that everyone uses their 10GB cap and nothing more (a conservative estimate)

I don't think that is conservative, I think it is wildly off the mark - 2Gb each would be more like it. So 6Gb/s would do. Telkom must just simply take the extra cost ( of roughly tripling their international bandwidth ) on the nose. They can afford to, with not too much damage to the bottom line. And that could handle a million subscribers according to Karnaugh's sums!

To me the main issue is that Telkom has the bandwidth, can afford it, and must provide it even now rather than being puritanical and deciding for us what we can and blooming well cannot do with ADSL!

 

[sunsoffun]

Karnaugh? Has someone else got hold of your login details? That was a cringeworthy comment



If i'm not mistaken, and this is a very quick calculation:
1 000 000 subscribers @ 1024kbps = 34Gbps at 30:1 contention
1 000 000 subscribers @ 512kbps = 17Gbps at 30:1 contention
1 000 000 subscribers @ 384kbps = 12.8Gbps at 30:1 contention
1 000 000 subscribers @ 192kbps = 6.4Gbps at 30:1 contention

If only a million connections needed 512Gbps of bandwidth, countries would have to start lighting up their dark fibre like it's Guy Fawkes on the 4th of July.

what is Telkoms total capicity going out on the undersea cables?

 

[kaspaas]

what is Telkoms total capicity going out on the undersea cables?

Rather ask: How much international capacity Telkom would require if it dropped local data costs for ISP's to something affordable.

I'm hosting in the US for around US$10 per 500GB.

What happens: [email protected] sends me mail from his office on ADSL via the Telkom SMTP servers. From there it wastes precious international bandwidth to my server in the US. I then download it from there again via my ADSL line and waste some more bandwidth.

I know I'm not the only one!

If Telkom had decent local bandwidth charges from the start, there would have been much less international traffic.

 

[BTTB]

Mr White.

Telkom is alreadyn throwing the toys out the cot.....................

"Steven White, Telkom’s executive for product development, says the proposed removal of the monthly fee is “not doable. That’s the bottom line.”

Mr White again.

Mr White had the opportunity long ago to speak to RPM and the chaps about ADSL.
The matter could have been sorted out long ago.

Now several years later we have MyADSL doing 100GB per month with over 7000 members and growing.
Plus thousands of Media Reports later and the likes of Hellkom being sued by Telkom and later withdrawing with Costs etc, etc.
Maybe it's people like White that need to take a long hard look at what the new CEO says about Customer Satisfaction as he certainly believes his own lies already.
The customers are not buying the stories anymore Mr White.

We should draft a list of everything that Mr White has said over the years into one thread so as we can compare what has been said to actually what happens on the ground or rather what has not happened.
Promised Meetings etc.

 

[doobiwan]

Will the Trolls please just leave.

There are some people posting sh*t on this thread that are obviously just plain clueless and rude. The old saying goes "The empty vessel makes the most noise" and that always seems to hold true.

If you can't be polite and hold a civilized conversation go hang out on the SAIX SGS boards with the rest of the kiddies.

Bravo to ICASA. The regulations are late and imperfect, but necessary and at least finally out. Our job now is to stop wasting time slinging mud, and to come up with a collective response and intelligent amendments to the document.

 

[sunsoffun]

Will the Trolls please just leave.

There are some people posting sh*t on this thread that are obviously just plain clueless and rude. The old saying goes "The empty vessel makes the most noise" and that always seems to hold true.

If you can't be polite and hold a civilized conversation go hang out on the SAIX SGS boards with the rest of the kiddies.

Bravo to ICASA. The regulations are late and imperfect, but necessary and at least finally out. Our job now is to stop wasting time slinging mud, and to come up with a collective response and intelligent amendments to the document.

I agree. We are still a long way of to getting this inacted. Half the people sitting in cabinet at parliament probably dont even know what ADSL is. We do need some legal reps that can study the document and we can all put our grey matter together to help ICASA with this finding/fight... Telkom is not going to take this lying down... but we can make it extremely difficult for them to prove any case.

 

[Siembambaa]

As regards the proposed regulations themselves:

The ideas behind them are obviously very beneficial to the public at large but I have to echo what Rodent said about how these ideas have been reduced to paper. Unless the legalese is watertight Telkoms gigantic squad of attack lawyers will have a field day.

Personally, I dont see these proposals becoming a reality unless ICASA changes its modus operandi rather drastically. This seems unlikely given the DOCs continual reduction of its independance (as evidenced by todays NPOC news).

However, all credit to RPM and the other participants in the ICASA hearings who helped bring this document to life. It will certainly contribute to pressure on the DOC and Telkom to normalise broadband pricing in line with international norms.

 

[rpm]

Hi Siembambaa

I agree that the draft regulations need a lot of work...we will do our best to supply good comments.

Please see your PM regarding the mods issue.

Regards,

RPM

 

[Dovi]

One thing I'm confused about: Is ICASA suggesting that Local will not count towards the cap and we will be softcapped once your 10Gb's of internetional bandwidth is used up (Might I add I would've hoped they suggested that once capped we recieve 64k speeds, 32kb at worst), or are they saying that once capped local will be uncapped? (i.e. local will stilll count towards cap)?

 

[Darkling]

The entire SAT3/WASC/SAFE system came in costing US$600 million, which at current rates works out to somewhere around R3.9 billion and will eventually support 250 Gbits bandwidth.

What would be possible if Telkom invested just 1 or 2 billion rand in another undersea cable for South Africa's use alone? They certainly seem to have enough cash to do so...

This also completely ignores the question of dark fibre.

p.s I would also suggest that everyone tries their best to ignore Karnaugh, as he seems to be a simple troglodite, baiting people for fun.

 

[MaD]

what is Telkoms total capicity going out on the undersea cables?

They have access to almost 30Gbps on SAT-3, and they have capacity on SAFE as well, although I'm not sure exactly how much. Maybe we can call and ask

 

[IdlePhaedrus]

Would be interesting to compare this draft against the draft that was published by the UK regulator . To see how much detail they went into .Wonder if it can be found somewhere

I thought Noemfie's idea was very good, so I did some googling. It was amazingly difficult to find any original documents, but the links I did find were quite interesting none-the-less, for those that are interested. I didn't however find the original draft regulations. Anyone else prepared to give it a go?

Government policy and the International Superhighway (by the national library of Australia nogal):
http://www.nla.gov.au/lis/govnii.html

UK: DTI's Broadband Facts and Figures:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/industries/telecoms/broadband_access.html

UK: DTI's National Broadband strategy 2004:
http://www.dti.gov.uk/industries/telecoms/pdf/uknational_broadband_strategy_2004.pdf

UK: Oftel's regulatory strategy for broadband:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/broadband/other/stratb1201.htm

UK: Oftel's Internet and Broadband Brief:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/research/telecoms/reports/bbresearch/oftel_internet_broadband_brief/#10

UK: Comment on draft regulations regarding broadband in the UK when Oftel became Ofcom:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2003/12/nr_20031216#content

UK: Oftel / Ofcom's draft for the unbundelling of the local loop in the UK:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/broadband/llu/shac1200.htm

http://broadband.gc.ca/pub/index.html?iin.lang=en
http://www.itu.int/osg/spu/ni/broadband/regulation.html
http://www.cis.state.mi.us/mpsc/comm/broadband/start.htm

 

[bekdik]

I think that this draft is a giant leap in the right direction. It shows a positive willingness of ICASA to force change in an unwilling monopolistic greed piggy. In the light of the presidents remarks ever so long ago, one has to assume that ICASA are going to get political support.

I am also guessing that much of the delay has involved behind the scenes infighting with a monopolistic piggy and, if this is so, the the tabled proposal will probably be finally accepted by them. No doubt they will bleat and threaten, but, if my assumptions about political willingness and behind the scenes discussion are reasonably correct, piggies will have to remove their noses from the trough or they could be heading back to a nationalised organisation.

Just my thoughts.

To all those MBB's who worked so hard in getting this far. Thanks and well done.

 

[pimal3]

Can we maybe start a thread with suggestions to proposals for public comment to Icasa's draft report? It will definitely make rpm and antowan's job easier to make a sensible and practical presentation to Icasa when public hearings start.

This thread can still be left open for general comments and sounding off on the present draft regulations.

 

[Siembambaa]

Can we maybe start a thread with suggestions to proposals for public comment to Icasa's draft report? It will definitely make rpm and antowan's job easier to make a sensible and practical presentation to Icasa when public hearings start.

This thread can still be left open for general comments and sounding off on the present draft regulations.

Seconded.

 

[Unchained]

Originally Posted by Karnaugh
Odd how people finger me as being "negative"

I've yet to see a positive post about these regulations on IOZ, and I suspect there won't be any from anyone worth listening to.

Care to share some of these views or point us to them. Would love to read them...

Not that much have been posted to [email protected], about 4 excluding Karnaugh's own post...

I don't remember the original details, but I assume (based on unsubscription info):

To subscribe, mail <[email protected]>
with "subscribe ioz" in the body of your message

Don't know off-hand if / where there are archives...

 

[Geek_wannabe]

Sorry to be the only pessimist here, but what are the chances this will even happen within 1 year....because that is how long I am willing to wait...2 years at most.

The point is that this is going to sucked into the abyss that is Telkom and will lie forgotton for a year or so.

 

[nOhIwAy]

I think this draft report is a great step in the right direction and .....

Thanks to rpm and all who took the time and made the effort
without which we would have nothing at this stage.

 

[MyDraadloos]

It is not what I wanted for Chrstmas, but it will have to do. Surely not our ultimate wishlist, but a definate step in the right direction.

 

[Byrd]

Hope that parliament, who owns half of Telkom, passes this in one form or another

I do feel though that if the legislation / regulation is not 100% tight that Telkom will evade it in some way. Just as they have tried to subvert the whole capping argument by chargin per traffic unit.