ISP "support" - just because they said so, doesn't make it true...

MalicE

MalicE

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I joined Afrihost to fulfill my hosting needs as we started our company late last year. It was just basic hosting, that R9 p/m deal, no site, goe our 2 free domains, and I was as happy as a pup with two tails. Then we wanted to upgrade.... we needed a windows server with a MS SQL database, asp .net 4.0 framework support and a WCF service, and we needed to setup a subdomain seeing as the domain we wanted was already taken. Arfi "support" told us we can have all that with their Windows Hom Gold package, for only R99 p/m. AWESOME! We setup the database ourselves with a lot of hassle, but when we asked them to setup the WCF service for us we got the reply...

"Unfortunately we wont be able to put the WCF Service on to our shared hosting servers.

You can however take out a dedicated server and have it on here:)"

You know that infamous youtube clip of Hitler freaking out, that was me x1000!
So after sending them a "thanks for wasting my time and money you lying bastards" mail, I cancelled EVERYTHING.

I made a call to Web Africa, the sales guy called me and confirmed with me twice that they can give us everything we need including the WCF service on their Standard Business package for R149 p/m. today we created the database, no problems, done in 10 minutes. When I queried how to setup the WCF service I got the reply...

"On our shared services we do not have WCF services installed. You may need to look at a dedicated server solution make use of WCF services."

I was so pissed I could vomit...
I relayed the message to my partner in crime, the back-end developer, he started mucking about in the cpanel (which allows you A LOT more freedom compared to the Afrihost cpanel). He created subdomains, copied the service and a bunch of other developer stuff I still squint at (I deal with the front-end), and KABLAM! We got a working WCF service on their "shared services".

So, in conclusion I can only come to one realization. The so called tech support guys actually don't know all that much, so when you ask them "tricky" questions, like setting up the WCF, they go sit in a corner and cry for a couple of hours, then tell you you can't have it! BAD CLIENT!

Springer's final thought: If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.

p.s. - I apologise to anyone reading this that work for the to incompetent parties, at least you got a job.
 
First off, a WCF service is the same damn thing as a Web Service (AFAIK) and if it's .NET you can load those puppies onto shared hosting environments since it's just a matter of some (already supported) .NET code running. I wouldn't really be blaming the ISP's as much as yourself for not getting your backend developer to dumb down the technology naming conventions you guys are using. It's not really "magic" or a feat of intellect to create a subdomain and copy over a bunch of code via FTP.

However, yes, the ISP's default answer to any "service" (remember, they're thinking WINDOWS service here, which has to run on the server itself and not some WEB APPLICATION "service"), is "no" on shared servers.

You can't expect sales staff to know their ass from their elbow when it comes to technical stuff, but those that do (which appears you've spoken to at Web Africa and Afrihost) would know what WCF/.NET is and that is most probably the reason why you got conflicting messages.

Tech staff knows ****all unless they come from a programming background (they're like the jocks/mechanics in the IT industry, not very bright but can "tune" a machine) and that is most probably why they "recommended" the dedicated server.
 
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AcidRaZor said:
First off, a WCF service is the same damn thing as a Web Service (AFAIK) and if it's .NET you can load those puppies onto shared hosting environments since it's just a matter of some (already supported) .NET code running. I wouldn't really be blaming the ISP's as much as yourself for not getting your backend developer to dumb down the technology naming conventions you guys are using. It's not really "magic" or a feat of intellect to create a subdomain and copy over a bunch of code via FTP.

However, yes, the ISP's default answer to any "service" (remember, they're thinking WINDOWS service here, which has to run on the server itself and not some WEB APPLICATION "service"), is "no" on shared servers.

You can't expect sales staff to know their ass from their elbow when it comes to technical stuff, but those that do (which appears you've spoken to at Web Africa and Afrihost) would know what WCF/.NET is and that is most probably the reason why you got conflicting messages.

Tech staff knows ****all unless they come from a programming background (they're like the jocks/mechanics in the IT industry, not very bright but can "tune" a machine) and that is most probably why they "recommended" the dedicated server.
Click to expand...

Haha that summed it up quite nicely, with afrihost you tend to get a mechanic in the wee hours of the morning. They tend to be more productive around that time as Afrihsot apparently has a few ps3's lying around their office and our calls are messing with their gaming time...

But ja, on a serious note, you need to understand their hosting environment. You can't expect the person answering the phones to tell you wether your code will work or not.
 
dwwarren said:
I joined Afrihost to fulfill my hosting needs as we started our company late last year. It was just basic hosting, that R9 p/m deal, no site, goe our 2 free domains, and I was as happy as a pup with two tails. Then we wanted to upgrade.... we needed a windows server with a MS SQL database, asp .net 4.0 framework support and a WCF service, and we needed to setup a subdomain seeing as the domain we wanted was already taken. Arfi "support" told us we can have all that with their Windows Hom Gold package, for only R99 p/m. AWESOME! We setup the database ourselves with a lot of hassle, but when we asked them to setup the WCF service for us we got the reply...

...

I made a call to Web Africa, the sales guy called me and confirmed with me twice that they can give us everything we need including the WCF service on their Standard Business package for R149 p/m. today we created the database, no problems, done in 10 minutes. When I queried how to setup the WCF service I got the reply...

...

So, in conclusion I can only come to one realization. The so called tech support guys actually don't know all that much, so when you ask them "tricky" questions, like setting up the WCF, they go sit in a corner and cry for a couple of hours, then tell you you can't have it! BAD CLIENT!
Click to expand...

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
 
You all make valid points, this has turned out to be an expensive learning curve :(

UPDATE: We're now looking at a virtual dedicated server. Our WCf service is working, the server is just not giving it the needed permissions for it to do it's job >_<

Yet another dissapointment and delay on our road to success, but this is how we learn I guess
 
koffiejunkie said:
You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Click to expand...

That is certainly true, however that has nothing to do with the issue at hand here.

While it might also be his fault for using the wrong terminology. The fact is that he was told upfront that he could do it, but when he wanted to do it he was told that he couldnt. I find it mindboggling that the customer is at fault and not the ISP that gave him the wrong info? Doesnt matter if the sales people do not know what they are talking about. If they dont know, they should say so and refer him to someone that knows.
 
Hi dwwarren,

You're welcome to give our shared windows hosting a test at no cost while you get your app working.
 
dakeyras said:
That is certainly true, however that has nothing to do with the issue at hand here.

While it might also be his fault for using the wrong terminology. The fact is that he was told upfront that he could do it, but when he wanted to do it he was told that he couldnt. I find it mindboggling that the customer is at fault and not the ISP that gave him the wrong info? Doesnt matter if the sales people do not know what they are talking about. If they dont know, they should say so and refer him to someone that knows.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point as well, and this happened twice in less than a months time!
 
AcidRaZor said:
Tech staff knows ****all unless they come from a programming background (they're like the jocks/mechanics in the IT industry, not very bright but can "tune" a machine) and that is most probably why they "recommended" the dedicated server.
Click to expand...
Dont you just love it when the cement and brick layers get all upset :) They all think theyre Gods gift to humanity, but most of the bricklayers shouldnt even be building a mud hut.
 
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froot said:
Maybe you haven't noticed, but Mweb's Virtual Servers are cheaper :)
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I would rather die then use Mweb thats like recommending @lantic sigh

Mweb support is horrible and uptime yeah .... not much
 
byron_spy said:
I would rather die then use Mweb thats like recommending @lantic sigh

Mweb support is horrible and uptime yeah .... not much
Click to expand...

I've been using a Mweb VPS for the last year. It's actually worked pretty well. Their dedi's are cool too.
 
AcidRaZor said:
Tech staff knows ****all unless they come from a programming background (they're like the jocks/mechanics in the IT industry, not very bright but can "tune" a machine) and that is most probably why they "recommended" the dedicated server.
Click to expand...

No, they say that because that's what the company offers their time for installing it on. SysAdmin time is expensive. Some things take time and effort and weather to spend it on a R9/m customer or a R99/m customer is a business decision. That the tech staff are told to lie about the reasons is, of course, unacceptable, but it doesn't mean they're wrong.

For what it's worth (a lot if you're a hosting provider), the clueless idiots tend to be "web developers." Most SysAdmins tend to have at least basic programming chops, most (at least where I work) are fluent in at least one language, quite often more. And even those who aren't skilled programmers understand enough to be able to read code and point out problems with it.

Web developers, on the other hand, tend to only know how to get features to a state where it's working in your browser, with little to no understanding of what it does to your server in terms of load, what the security implications are. They code to minor versions of the language (java developers are particularly terrible in this regard), if a language is forgiving about doing things the wrong way, they will choose the wrong way over the right way without fail. Most developers don't know there's an error log, and act surprised when they run out of disc space because the Apache logged 60GB of PHP errors. Undefined variables. Really? In 2012 people still do that? Almost daily, I get complaints about poor performance, and find that some idiot "Senior developer" is comparing two undefined variables or doing something equally dreadful.
 
froot said:
I've been using a Mweb VPS for the last year. It's actually worked pretty well. Their dedi's are cool too.
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Its just my experience with them though :)

Likewise Afri Host I would say is awesome but once again this is just my experience though



koffiejunkie said:
Yeah, but the more expensive monkeys tend to be circus monkeys - you can teach them tricks and expect them to behave ;)
Click to expand...


Lol so true they eventually start to do great back flips
 
froot said:
I've been using a Mweb VPS for the last year. It's actually worked pretty well. Their dedi's are cool too.
Click to expand...

That's where we're going...sorta. VirtualServers are locally based at the MWEB datacenter here in Cape Town. It's very affordable compared to a dedicated server, and offers the same functionality, but from what I've read the VPS is actually the better option.

VPS FTW! :)
 
VirtualServers.co.za - use coupon code 'mybb' to get 50% off your first month on our range of VS1-VS3 Linux packages or contact us for a completely free 48 hour trial of any of our South African options.

I can also confirm that we'll be launching a massive range of new services including new packages this week!

..and a Thank You to those who have mentioned us.
 
VPS said:
VirtualServers.co.za - use coupon code 'mybb' to get 50% off your first month on our range of VS1-VS3 Linux packages or contact us for a completely free 48 hour trial of any of our South African options.

I can also confirm that we'll be launching a massive range of new services including new packages this week!

..and a Thank You to those who have mentioned us.
Click to expand...

And maybe ask for rep-status if you want to advertise on MyBB (especially with dupe posts) :/
 
VPS said:
VirtualServers.co.za - use coupon code 'mybb' to get 50% off your first month on our range of VS1-VS3 Linux packages or contact us for a completely free 48 hour trial of any of our South African options.

I can also confirm that we'll be launching a massive range of new services including new packages this week!

..and a Thank You to those who have mentioned us.
Click to expand...

We are currently hosting with you guys, and very satisfied with the service :)
 
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