IT professionals better off in SA

[w1z4rd]

I was trying to bring him into a reasonable debate and you two disagree on a fundamental. He's run away now so that's academic. I've already stated my position on Linux and we appear to agree.
No you didn't understand my point. They view buying a R600K system for ONE APP in the same light as replacing a few desktop PC's. Of course, the checks and balances are different. As you see, the scale is different. I handled the biggest, fastest computer installation in the whole of Europe at one time. Admittedly I wasn't root though. I don't like to boast, but given I appear to be arguing with children (not you), it seems to be called for.

I run away? No I realized what you are and couldnt be bothered to waste any more energy on you. If others have the patience for your ilk theyre welcome to chat to you... you have nothing of value to offer me in a discussion.

So if I dont respond dont flatter yourself with the lie that I have run away. I just dont have time for Berties.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Sackboy : You clearly have less than no idea how corporates in SA work now.

I work for a relatively small corporate but its not uncommon for us to spend LARGE quantities of money on server hardware without really thinking about it.

I used to work for a company that dealt with the large engineering and engineering design places like Denel etc... again.. they didn't bat an eyelid when we requested new server hardware.... The server hardware was 95% of the time considerably more important than the desktops people ran on.

 

[vodacom3g]

I was trying to bring him into a reasonable debate and you two disagree on a fundamental. He's run away now so that's academic. I've already stated my position on Linux and we appear to agree.
No you didn't understand my point. They view buying a R600K system for ONE APP in the same light as replacing a few desktop PC's. Of course, the checks and balances are different. As you see, the scale is different. I handled the biggest, fastest computer installation in the whole of Europe at one time. Admittedly I wasn't root though. I don't like to boast, but given I appear to be arguing with children (not you), it seems to be called for.

OK, but I'd still like to see you substantiate a few statements you made, if you don't mind:

1) Linux is a sub-standard, poor man's, OS: I pointed you to another article showing 90% of the worlds top computers run Linux.

2) Unix is not widely used in South Africa: I countered with my own experience of seeing huge Unix implementations in many of the largest SA corporates.

3) Corporate SA is mickey-mouse compared to Europe: I asked if you can post which SA corporates you worked for and in what capacity.

Out of interest, where is this "biggest, fastest computer installation in the whole of Europe" ?

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

...3) Corporate SA is mickey-mouse compared to Europe...

DiData, Spinnikar ... I kinda guess these guys also live in the Mouse House. But then again there some people that do not want to admit that we can still get things done in this country.

 

[Sackboy]

OK, but I'd still like to see you substantiate a few statements you made, if you don't mind:

1) Linux is a sub-standard, poor man's, OS: I pointed you to another article showing 90% of the worlds top computers run Linux.

2) Unix is not widely used in South Africa: I countered with my own experience of seeing huge Unix implementations in many of the largest SA corporates.

3) Corporate SA is mickey-mouse compared to Europe: I asked if you can post which SA corporates you worked for and in what capacity.

Out of interest, where is this "biggest, fastest computer installation in the whole of Europe" ?

We have a small problem. Just so small. >>>> I didn't make those statements.

I'll extract some of the truth in your question - Linux is definitely a poor man's OS because it's free. Nobody is going to argue against that. Is it sub-standard - NO, some distros work VERY well. It depends what you're doing. It doesn't compete very well with UNIX for other reasons. Maybe because it's more fluid.

I'm not at liberty to go into detail about where I work(ed) for privacy reasons. Another reason being is that I asked a similar question and had no reply. I also asked you a question about UNIX installations which you didn't respond to.

It was my observation that UNIX was not as widespread in SA. I still hold this view. One can see this by looking through the vacancies.

Where would you find the fastest 'mainframe' in Europe? In a SWISS BANK. Let me add that a different bank could buy a better one tomorrow and change the status quo.

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

It was my observation that UNIX was not as widespread in SA. I still hold this view. One can see this by looking through the vacancies.

Our company runs on LINUX and Demon Piss ~ we do not advertise because real developers make a name for them in the industry. In the LINUX community you can build a name up very fast and their are plenty of jobs lined up.

I also don't see too many proper Window Amin jobs avertised either, or SQL-Admins (not talking about Access).

You also won't find any erlang jobs advertised but there is massive shortage and open posts for these guys.

EDIT: I used erlang as an example because a company in Somerset West is now recruiting Java / C++ developers to train up for erlang ... the reason, they cannot find any erlang developers they can afford. Our office also needs another one.

 

[Sackboy]

Our company runs on LINUX and Demon Piss ~ we do not advertise because real developers make a name for them in the industry. In the LINUX community you can build a name up very fast and their are plenty of jobs lined up.

I also don't see too many proper Window Amin jobs avertised either, or SQL-Admins (not talking about Access).

You also won't find any erlang jobs advertised but there is massive shortage and open posts for these guys.

EDIT: I used erlang as an example because a company in Somerset West is now recruiting Java / C++ developers to train up for erlang ... the reason, they cannot find any erlang developers they can afford. Our office also needs another one.

I also noticed that. If you were a UNIX/SYBASE/C specialist you would be snapped up in Germany though.

The thing with LINUX is that you find some Tom Dick Harry who taught himself at home applying, which annoys the cr*p out of the top recruiters.

 

[vodacom3g]

We have a small problem. Just so small. >>>> I didn't make those statements.

I'll extract some of the truth in your question - Linux is definitely a poor man's OS because it's free. Nobody is going to argue against that. Is it sub-standard - NO, some distros work VERY well. It depends what you're doing. It doesn't compete very well with UNIX for other reasons. Maybe because it's more fluid.

I guess the owners of 90% of the top 500 Super Computers in the world would probably disagree with you here. Just a hunch, though.

Can you explain why they all run Linux?

I'm not at liberty to go into detail about where I work(ed) for privacy reasons. Another reason being is that I asked a similar question and had no reply. I also asked you a question about UNIX installations which you didn't respond to.

Sorry, missed that. I got involved with large-scale Unix systems circa 1995 and is still very involved in the industry.

It was my observation that UNIX was not as widespread in SA. I still hold this view. One can see this by looking through the vacancies.

So you've not actually worked for the large local corporates? You've not been in their computer rooms and have not seen their architectures?

Where would you find the fastest 'mainframe' in Europe? In a SWISS BANK. Let me add that a different bank could buy a better one tomorrow and change the status quo.

Is your Swiss bank listed in the top 500 Super Computer list? As the biggest, fastest computer in Europe I assume it must be pretty high up on that list?

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

I also noticed that. If you were a UNIX/SYBASE/C specialist you would be snapped up in Germany though.

The thing with LINUX is that you find some Tom Dick Harry who taught himself at home applying, which annoys the cr*p out of the top recruiters.

Our company, like many others, do not use recruiters - the IT industry is a buddy buddy system. Everybody, including me, was "recruited" because we had contacts at our office.

Your point on home brewed LINUX Dickless Toms is true I will admit. But then again I know of very few Windows Admins that where also not home taught.

On the Sybase issue - well Sybase is not well used here, I know one of there guys and they are trying to expand their market share. PostgreSQL, MySQL and Oracle are king in SA.

 

[vodacom3g]

Our company, like many others, do not use recruiters - the IT industry is a buddy buddy system. Everybody, including me, was "recruited" because we had contacts at our office.

OT
I'm looking for a technical programmer but have a moral problem using recruitment agencies. Any 'contacts'?
/OT

On the Sybase issue - well Sybase is not well used here, I know one of there guys and they are trying to expand their market share. PostgreSQL, MySQL and Oracle are king in SA.

I remember the days when Sybase was indeed king in SA, but they lost the plot at some point and Oracle took over.

 

[Sackboy]

I guess the owners of 90% of the top 500 Super Computers in the world would probably disagree with you here. Just a hunch, though.

Can you explain why they all run Linux?

*I can't answer for them or validate the statement that they ALL RUN LINUX. It wouldn't be my first choice for any "SUPER COMPUTER", but then neither would Windows, again for other reasons. LINUX is great for small businesses who know what they're doing and hobbyists, but not for anything critical.


Sorry, missed that. I got involved with large-scale Unix systems circa 1995 and is still very involved in the industry.

*My opinion is that in 1995, SA was a comparative desert for any large scale UNIX/HP-UIX and even SUN systems. Anyone who took a look at the status quo in SA in 1995, had the choice to work abroad and stayed would have needed councilling in my view.

So you've not actually worked for the large local corporates? You've not been in their computer rooms and have not seen their architectures?

*I've worked here on secondment for short periods and have seen a few clean rooms. "Yawn, where's the rest of it - is that someone changing a TAPE!?!?!". LOL"

Is your Swiss bank listed in the top 500 Super Computer list? As the biggest, fastest computer in Europe I assume it must be pretty high up on that list?

*It was TIPPITY TOP at the time, yes. Nothing to match it. In fact the data centre was almost totally automated, which is why I laughed at data-centre-dave.

...

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

OT

OT
I'm looking for a technical programmer but have a moral problem using recruitment agencies. Any 'contacts'?
/OT

+1

I think we all. Currently all the good coders are taken, but you can PM me the requirements and I can ask around when I'm back at work on Monday.

/OT

 

[Sackboy]

On the Sybase issue - well Sybase is not well used here, I know one of there guys and they are trying to expand their market share. PostgreSQL, MySQL and Oracle are king in SA.

When did Oracle arrive here? When I did my training in Richmond, there was no presence. I also changed to SYBASE because that was what the team were using.

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

When did Oracle arrive here? When I did my training in Richmond, there was no presence. I also changed to SYBASE because that was what the team were using.

Wonder why my BSc has no SYBASE content .... mmmm

Not saying its a bad product and it will most likely outperform MySQL or PostgreSQL, but then the holy grail of my industry is to have a Oracle DB

 

[Sackboy]

Wonder why my BSc has no SYBASE content .... mmmm

Not saying its a bad product and it will most likely outperform MySQL or PostgreSQL, but then the holy grail of my industry is to have a Oracle DB

For studying, it's the principle of databases and it would have been costly. SYBASE was cheaper and ORACLE went down at one time, then bounced back if I recall. I preferred SYBASE I must say.

 

[Other Pineapple Smurf]

When did Oracle arrive here? When I did my training in Richmond, there was no presence. I also changed to SYBASE because that was what the team were using.

Since when did Richmond get computers or even brick school to teach you MOS?

http://www.richmondnc.co.za/

 

[Sackboy]

Since when did Richmond get computers or even brick school to teach you MOS?

http://www.richmondnc.co.za/

Not that Richmond. The one on the Thames. It was a cool place that felt like someone's house. I still remember how friendly the staff were and the food ... wow! They gave us their cards, home numbers incl, and told us to call whenever we were stuck.

 

[w1z4rd]

Dont the HP Unix`s and stuff run FOSS? I thought all the packages were basically the same?

 

[vodacom3g]

...
*It was TIPPITY TOP at the time, yes. Nothing to match it. In fact the data centre was almost totally automated, which is why I laughed at data-centre-dave.

What year was this?

I just ran through the Top 500 Super computer lists for the last few years and can't find a year when Switzerland topped the list in Europe.

In 2008, the best the Swiss could do was 85th, 39th in 2007 and 16th in 2006.

UK for the same periods: 18th, 17th, 15th
Germany: 6th, 2nd, 8th

BTW, the top system in Switserland in 2008 (at the Geophysics Company) runs Linux.

 

[icyrus]

I can't answer for them or validate the statement that they ALL RUN LINUX. It wouldn't be my first choice for any "SUPER COMPUTER", but then neither would Windows, again for other reasons. LINUX is great for small businesses who know what they're doing and hobbyists, but not for anything critical.

Do you have any possible data/reasoning to back that up with?