last 2 weeks to hand in firearm

[Glock26]

Ivork..with regard to that deactivated firearm..
They are wrong. A firearm that is officially deactivated is no longer a firearm. It falls under the same category as a toy or No1 air rifle.

Be aware that pointing a deactivated firearm or even a replica is still a criminal offence, and the same as pointing a live one, so maybe that is what they meant.

Remember though that it is illegal to deactivate a gun yourself without going through the official procedure. I have one customer facing charges right now for doing that.
Yes..there are many questions such as how do they prove you did it, when it was done, etc etc. Not going to get into that...just the facts for now. You drill the loopholes yourself.

G26

 

[Ivork]

Thanks man. I'm just struggling to get conformation on that.
(I'm assuming you read my reply a few posts back on pg3).

Please note that once your firearm is deactivated it is still considered a “firearm” in terms of the offences applied to firearms. Very heavy penalties apply for any firearm related offences so please take extreme care to keep a deactivated firearm safe.

Not quite the warning attached to the toy gun you buy from Toys R Us.....

I've seen some pretty real looking metal /alloy toy guns. The only way you could tell a "real" deactivated firearm from those toys guns is to actually pick them up and feel the weight.

I was playing devils advocate and there will be huge trouble if my kids ever take my old pistol to school and loose it (I've had it for 20 years and my dad before that and his father before that), But not an impossible scenario.

But it is essentially a toy gun which is why I couldn't understand why they were saying the offences would be classified under "still considered a firearm".

I mean - kids - cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, charges can be laid for pointing a toy gun. How can they be serious!

Of course a stickup at the 7/11 is a different story.

 

[captainwifi]

Vercogen,
I won't bother answering Capt Wookie's comments anymore as he is clearly delusional and lives in the past or an alternate reality. But I will gladly answer questions about firearms or the law or how it is all working.
Stupid comments aside..we would rather you don't hand in your gun to us or the police. Hate seeing all the ppl who come in to buy a gun AFTER an incident.

And I guess you have to paid to store my gun ?

ETA: Oh yeah..Capt Wookie...I may or may not have run that name through CFR. Not going to post here publicly if i did, am I? My previous points stand.

No, you can't run anything by CFR because you don't have that authority. Imagine criminals providing the address of each house so CFR an tell them who has guns or not. Such information isn't available to the public.

 

[Glock26]

And I guess you have to paid to store my gun ?

Dunno...if you write that in English I'll try and answer it

No, you can't run anything by CFR because you don't have that authority. Imagine criminals providing the address of each house so CFR an tell them who has guns or not. Such information isn't available to the public.

What happens, and what should happen are 2 different things.
Tell you what...if you have a gun on your name...you pm me your id number or serial of the gun and I'll pm you back your id number, address, and details of any guns you have or had. But then you have to go away from MyADSL totally if I can do this. If I can't..I go away. Deal?

IvorK...pointing a replica is the same penalty as pointing a real gun. That is what they are getting at. Criminal use of a replica or deact is the same offence as using a real gun. Kids in most cases wouldn't be charged as they are not intending any crime or misuse. However if found to be running around recklessly with a toy..then yes, they could be charged.

G26

 

[Glock26]

@ G26

We took the transfer root, by witch I took over my wives 9mm. The SAPS only gave me 2 forms that had to be completed.

1. SAPS 271 Application for Licence to Possess a Firearm
2. SAPS 517 Application for a Competency Certificate

and she had to give a letter stating that she is transferring the firearm over to me.

I am still in possession of the firearm should we have also completed

SAPS 534 Transfer of Firearm ownership?

Should I apply for permission to store the firearm? (SAPS 539) and do i have to have a license to do so?(i don't have a license)

Is there any other forms that should be completed?

Vercogen,
Just to add to my previous reply. You do not fill in a SAP534. That transfer of ownership is mainly used when you sell or give to a gunshop.

What you need is the storage permit. SAP518
SAPS 518 Application for a Temporary Authorization to Possess a Firearm
Download from the http://saga.org.za/waiting.htm website. Then take to the police station. Original owner is the one storing (but not using, carrying or otherwise) the firearm, not the applicant.

Most of this info is also contained here: http://saga.org.za/Press Release 7Jun09 English.pdf

G26

 

[captainwifi]

What happens, and what should happen are 2 different things.
Tell you what...if you have a gun on your name...

A better idea instead of telling people to go and hand in their gun or fill in forms we wait till 29,30 June which is Monday, Tuesday nextweek. Right about then or on Sunday the ANC will Gazette a 3-month amnesty to all those under the old license.

30 June is still your last, because 1 July our MK police will start rounding up the TLU farmers. TLU is on record that we mustn't relicense ( I convinced them) , had a long chat with Col. Piet Kemp. If the ANC starts mass arrests of 1.6mil people (only 20% have relicensed) , then we are heading for civil war. It is outrageous to imagine a 1.6mil people chained to the poles , pissing in the street (the police holding cells can't keep them and our jails only have space for 200 000 people).

If John really , really is going to prosecute me on 1 July 2009 or that one person (himself? ) then he can at least have the decency to SAY SOMETHING . Why isn't he coming out as strongly as our berds speaking SAPS threatening people, bellowing smoke , wainving his arms and having a heart attack.

The NPA held press conferences , engaged the press through the whole Zuma saga. But on the guns issue, nothing, just nothing but silence. Don't you think that if they were actually intending to prosecute 1.6mil people they would at least say something?

There are 2mil licensed gun owners, only 400 000 have relicensed mainly the umlungus wat soos gewoonlik niks verstaan nie.

 

[Sackboy]

A better idea instead of telling people to go and hand in their gun or fill in forms we wait till 29,30 June which is Monday, Tuesday nextweek. Right about then or on Sunday the ANC will Gazette a 3-month amnesty to all those under the old license.

30 June is still your last, because 1 July our MK police will start rounding up the TLU farmers. TLU is on record that we mustn't relicense ( I convinced them) , had a long chat with Col. Piet Kemp. If the ANC starts mass arrests of 1.6mil people (only 20% have relicensed) , then we are heading for civil war. It is outrageous to imagine a 1.6mil people chained to the poles , pissing in the street (the police holding cells can't keep them and our jails only have space for 200 000 people).

If John really , really is going to prosecute me on 1 July 2009 or that one person (himself? ) then he can at least have the decency to SAY SOMETHING . Why isn't he coming out as strongly as our berds speaking SAPS threatening people, bellowing smoke , wainving his arms and having a heart attack.

The NPA held press conferences , engaged the press through the whole Zuma saga. But on the guns issue, nothing, just nothing but silence. Don't you think that if they were actually intending to prosecute 1.6mil people they would at least say something?

There are 2mil licensed gun owners, only 400 000 have relicensed mainly the umlungus wat soos gewoonlik niks verstaan nie.

explain

 

[captainwifi]

The ANC used the gun course of R400/R500 as a ruse to make it impossible for the majority blacks to keep their licenses, because they knew they wouldn't pass the course. So the blacks simply didn't do the course and were ignoring the cut-off dates (march Dec according to birth) when they were supposed to hand in their guns because of failure to do the course. The ANC realized their mistake and wanted to completely scrap the gun course thing so that it would be easier to confiscate the weapons.

The gunshops who were making a mint out of these courses, held on their premises, convinced the ANC not to! Do you have a gunshop owner who was your friend and as your "friend" took your R400 for a course? He is no longer your friend my friend but a traitor who sold your means of protection for R400 ..... think a bit about that......

He took away your license so he could get R400, milking the cow before slaughter. In anycase hold on to your old license. The NPA won't prosecute anybody who had an old license , no matter what form you signed, just hold on to that green /yellow card.

 

[Sackboy]

The ANC used the gun course of R400/R500 as a ruse to make it impossible for the majority blacks to keep their licenses, because they knew they wouldn't pass the course. So the blacks simply didn't do the course and were ignoring the cut-off dates (march Dec according to birth) when they were supposed to hand in their guns because of failure to do the course. The ANC realized their mistake and wanted to completely scrap the gun course thing so that it would be easier to confiscate the weapons.

The gunshops who were making a mint out of these courses, held on their premises, convinced the ANC not to! Do you have a gunshop owner who was your friend and as your "friend" took your R400 for a course? He is no longer your friend my friend but a traitor who sold your means of protection for R400 ..... think a bit about that......

He took away your license so he could get R400, milking the cow before slaughter. In anycase hold on to your old license. The NPA won't prosecute anybody who had an old license , no matter what form you signed, just hold on to that green /yellow card.

OK, so far it's a wacky racial theory waiting for evidence.

All I know is the government went off-rails just after the last regime departed and opened the door to anyone who wanted protection. This was a mistake, and now they are overcompensating because they believe gun ownership is linked to the high crime rate.

A common perception amongst gun shops is that the government didn't know who owned which firearm and this was a glorified audit. A bloody badly executed one and the shops didn't want it as much as anyone did. They would rather not become lecturers teaching idiots about gun safety. Even before this new legislation you had to attend training courses, so not a big change there.

Any gunshop owner will agree that this has been a big b*lls up and waste of time and money, so I don't believe they are in it for the money. They would rather see that R500 spent on ammo or a new holster.

 

[mikeh]

What happens if you hand in your Firearm with more than 200 rounds?

Can you hand it into the Police any time day or night or just normal office hours?

 

[Koos Custodiet]

What happens if you hand in your Firearm with more than 200 rounds?

Can you hand it into the Police any time day or night or just normal office hours?

Why would you want to? Rather give the thing away to someone who would appreciate it...

(And if it's a 9mm, I'm sure those rounds would be gladly accepted and passed on to those who can use it to put bread on their tables...)

 

[Vercogen]

Vercogen,
Just to add to my previous reply. You do not fill in a SAP534. That transfer of ownership is mainly used when you sell or give to a gunshop.

What you need is the storage permit. SAP518
SAPS 518 Application for a Temporary Authorization to Possess a Firearm
Download from the http://saga.org.za/waiting.htm website. Then take to the police station. Original owner is the one storing (but not using, carrying or otherwise) the firearm, not the applicant.

Most of this info is also contained here: http://saga.org.za/Press Release 7Jun09 English.pdf

G26

Thanx for your help thus far G26, appreciated

 

[Vercogen]

Folks..remember they are still refusing many applications. Yes, you will get a gun for self protection... but not with 3 lines of motivation. Go overboard...write 2 or 3 pages. How you travel at night, carry cash to the bank, live in an area prone to crime. Send in some crime clippings from your local newspaper. Prove to them you have no better way of defending yourself. Show them you are old/weak/fat/lazy and are unable to run away if your life is in danger and the firearm will only be used in defence of your life. Write LOTS. That is the key to getting a licence.

Eish, this means they will not approve my application? I only wrote self protection for myself and family?

 

[MvanHeerden]

Glock26,

I have a question. If I sign over temporary ownership of my gun to my friend which is a legal gun owner, what happens after 1 July? Once I have given the temp ownership I'm going to reapply for my gun license but will I be safe after 1 July?

Is this the only and best option for me as I really don't want to have my gun destroyed.

Thx appreciate all the help.

 

[marine1]

IMPLEMENTATION OF THE FIREARMS CONTROL LEGISLATION IN SOUTH AFRICA

The South African Police Service wishes to extend a special word of appreciation to all firearm owners who participated in the renewal of their firearm licences, permits or authorizations. The participation of the community in this process contributes to improved firearm control and prevents the proliferation of firearms that are getting into the hands of criminals. In the same breath the South African Police Service wishes to call upon all firearm owners who have decided not to renew their firearm licences and who have opted for alternative options to dispose of their firearms by 30 June 2009.

A person who did not renew his/her firearm licence in terms of the Arms and Ammunition Act, 1969 may opt for any one of the following options:

- The firearm may be sold to a licensed firearms dealer in South Africa.

- The firearm may be handed in at the nearest police station for the purpose of deactivation.

- The firearm may be voluntarily surrendered to the South African Police Service to be destroyed.

- The firearm may be sold or donated to another individual or a legal entity. A firearm for which a licence, permit or authorisation has not been issued by the 30 June 2009 must be handed in at the nearest police station until the appropriate firearm licence has been decided upon. The firearm owner may also keep the firearm, subject to applying and obtaining a temporary authorisation (SAPS 21) from the Designated Firearms Officer.

The South African firearm owners must note that all licences, permits and authorisations issued in terms of the Arms and Ammunition Act, 1969 including storage permits for such firearm, permit or authorisation will cease to be legal as from 1 July 2009. Unless the firearm owner has applied for the renewal of such firearm licence, permit, authorisation or selected a legal option, he/she will be regarded as being in possession of a firearm without a valid licence, permit or authorisation which is regarded as a serious offence with severe penalties in terms of the Firearms Control legislation.

In the spirit of the commitment of government to fight and reduce crime collectively, the South African Police Service calls upon all South African citizens to comply with the provisions of the Firearms Control legislation to assist the Service to ensure a reliable, comprehensive and effective firearms control system in South Africa.

The Divisional Commissioner: Visible Policing, Commissioner Arno Lamoer, once again strongly urges members of the community to share any information on the illegal possession of firearms, as well as any criminal activity with the South African Police Service.

Together we can make a difference in ensuring safety and prosperity to our country by rooting out the causes of crime such as the possession of illegal firearms.

The South African Police Service urges all legal firearm owners to contact the local Designated Firearms Officers or the National Firearms Call Centre for guidance on the disposal of firearms.

 

[Koos Custodiet]

Glock26,

I have a question. If I sign over temporary ownership of my gun to my friend which is a legal gun owner, what happens after 1 July? Once I have given the temp ownership I'm going to reapply for my gun license but will I be safe after 1 July?

You don't have to "sign over ownership". Property is property.

If you went and bought a new gun now, paid in full, the shop will keep the gun for you until your licence is granted. You're the owner, you just don't have a licence to possess it.

The reverse is also true. If you book a gun into a shop and they cancel your licence, you still own the gun, the shop is just storing it for you.

Plain, simple, and I don't know why people get confused.

 

[Mila]

Gun City in Boksburg has place for about 1 000 more guns.

Yes they make money (R100 a month) but someone's pain is another one's gain. And i rather pay R100 a month than end up with my bf with a criminal record. So it's there till the end of the month to see what the police is up to. If needs be it can stay there for a while longer.

 

[Vercogen]

Vercogen,
Just to add to my previous reply. You do not fill in a SAP534. That transfer of ownership is mainly used when you sell or give to a gunshop.

What you need is the storage permit. SAP518
SAPS 518 Application for a Temporary Authorization to Possess a Firearm
Download from the http://saga.org.za/waiting.htm website. Then take to the police station. Original owner is the one storing (but not using, carrying or otherwise) the firearm, not the applicant.

Most of this info is also contained here: http://saga.org.za/Press Release 7Jun09 English.pdf

G26

Update:

Ok the SAPS 518 is a Application for a Temporary Authorization to Possess a Firearm not to Store

The SAPS 539 is the one to temporarily store a firearm, filled it in this morning, can store it for 3 months, and then go back to renew it again.

 

[MidnightWizard]

A gun a day

A gun a day keeps the criminals at bay and the cops in pay.

Sorry -- the whole thing is a tragi-comedy

The ONLY thing I am reading from all this ........

The ANC does NOT want any nomal law abiding citizen to have any firearm -- ie ANY means of defending themself against various forms of perp including the state

I am going to find a "friendly" SAPS from whom I can "rent-a-gun" -- preferably one of those new H&K 9mm HMC the "task-force" have -- preferably WITH a silencer. ( and a licence to kill )

PS; IF the Captn is to be believed we are in for a bit of excitement at the end of the month when the SAPS try to remove "unlicensed firearms" from members of TAU

MW

 

[Vercogen]

Update:

Ok the SAPS 518 is a Application for a Temporary Authorization to Possess a Firearm not to Store

The SAPS 539 is the one to temporarily store a firearm, filled it in this morning, can store it for 3 months, and then go back to renew it again.

:erm:..................

erm update again

The police phoned me now and told me that i actually DO need the SAPS 518 form, awesome service from the guys in blue that suppose to know the ins and outs