last 2 weeks to hand in firearm

Found out it is not even worth R1000. :eek: Guess the market is a bit flooded at the moment.

Not re doing test for that. Maybe if it was a good Nickel plated firearm, but not worth this old Browning.

Thinking of having it de-activated. Has sentimental value and is a far better quality item than any of the toy guns I have bought for kids so far.

I just need to be certain that once they have de-activated it and removed my license, all previous responsibilities regarding firearm ownership are null and void. I will check with gunsmith when I take it in.

When I walk out that gunsmith after they’ve deactivated it, I do not need to conceal it anymore, make sure it is kept safe and all the rest of the rules & regulations I am assuming.

I just have this annoying scenario in my mind:

My kids take it to school (as invariably they do with all their toys), and they loose it.
It lands up in the wrong hands.
It gets used to hold up some place / armed robbery (of course they can’t actually shoot anyone), it’s foiled and they get caught.

There is no way that I can be held responsible in any way. The cops can’t come knocking on my door because I was the license holder can they?

It would be stolen property as I’m still the owner – but I couldn’t be held or accused of anything could I? SackBoy comments?
 
Make a cross bow out off news paper like they did with myth busters or keep the dam gun, if you are going to kill some one that wanted to kill you fuk the goc, kill them 1st burn the body dexter style woot!
 
Maybe if it was a good Nickel plated firearm, but not worth this old Browning.
Click to expand...

You know, that line makes you sound like a troll. So does the one about allowing your kids to take a deactivated firearm to school.

But anyway. Read the Act and Regulations. You can download it from a number of places. It'll tell you what is a firearm and what isn't.

But I really wouldn't let kids play with a deactivated firearm hey.
 
Ivork said:
When I walk out that gunsmith after they’ve deactivated it, I do not need to conceal it anymore, make sure it is kept safe and all the rest of the rules & regulations I am assuming.
Click to expand...

If you are really determined to render such a useful tool useless, take it to a gunsmith (so it’s official – don’t let the useless SAPS get their hands on it) and remove an easily replaced item (firing pin or something). If you really need it, it can be returned to full deadliness rapidly. Don’t do irrevocable stuff.
 
Ivork said:
Asked the cop if there was any time limit on safe keeping to which he said there was not. Asked what will happen because in 2 weeks I will not be able to collect it again and he just shrugged and said didn't know.

So it looks to me like a case of "no one has a clue what's going on".
Click to expand...

Indeed but this due to ignorance. The law is very clear as to who decides what is legal or not:
http://tinyurl.com/6kcq2x
In terms of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998, the power to institute and conduct criminal proceedings on behalf of the State (and to discontinue criminal proceedings) vests in the national prosecuting authority. In practice, decisions in most courts on a day-to-day basis are taken by prosecutors with delegated authority from the National Director. In more important or difficult matters, the decision is taken by the various provincial directors or the investigating directors in consultation with the relevant provincial director and subject to the control and directions of the National Director. In some cases, the National Director himself will be involved in the decision-making process and he may even make the decision himself.

See the SAPS keeps on telling us what is legal or not , which is factually wrong. Only the courts decide this, but only the NPA can prosecute which they won't do. Notice that the SAPS is yapping like mongrol dog about the firearms, the NPA hasn't said anything because they can't openly state that the ANC is insane.
 
Ivork said:
Found out it is not even worth R1000. :eek: Guess the market is a bit flooded at the moment.

Not re doing test for that. Maybe if it was a good Nickel plated firearm, but not worth this old Browning.

Thinking of having it de-activated. Has sentimental value and is a far better quality item than any of the toy guns I have bought for kids so far.

I just need to be certain that once they have de-activated it and removed my license, all previous responsibilities regarding firearm ownership are null and void. I will check with gunsmith when I take it in.

When I walk out that gunsmith after they’ve deactivated it, I do not need to conceal it anymore, make sure it is kept safe and all the rest of the rules & regulations I am assuming.

I just have this annoying scenario in my mind:

My kids take it to school (as invariably they do with all their toys), and they loose it.
It lands up in the wrong hands.
It gets used to hold up some place / armed robbery (of course they can’t actually shoot anyone), it’s foiled and they get caught.

There is no way that I can be held responsible in any way. The cops can’t come knocking on my door because I was the license holder can they?

It would be stolen property as I’m still the owner – but I couldn’t be held or accused of anything could I? SackBoy comments?
Click to expand...
Yes, the market value is virtually nil thanks to the SAPS. Look, don't get too attached to it, it's just a tool. A replica should be respected. I wouldn't brandish it about like Rambo. You can get shot that way and the law would be on the shooter's side. I presume it will still be traceable due to the serial number, so don't lose/use it.

By all means put it in a glass case and gaze at it.

Palimino said:
If you are really determined to render such a useful tool useless, take it to a gunsmith (so it’s official – don’t let the useless SAPS get their hands on it) and remove an easily replaced item (firing pin or something). If you really need it, it can be returned to full deadliness rapidly. Don’t do irrevocable stuff.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid the gunsmith HAS to make the deactivation PERMANENT or he won't get it back.
 
When can i have a weapon? Do i go to the police station and apply for a license and wait until i get the paper work or can i apply and get the gun and then wait?
 
captainwifi said:
Indeed but this due to ignorance. The law is very clear as to who decides what is legal or not:
http://tinyurl.com/6kcq2x
In terms of section 20 of the National Prosecuting Authority Act, No 32 of 1998, the power to institute and conduct criminal proceedings on behalf of the State (and to discontinue criminal proceedings) vests in the national prosecuting authority. In practice, decisions in most courts on a day-to-day basis are taken by prosecutors with delegated authority from the National Director. In more important or difficult matters, the decision is taken by the various provincial directors or the investigating directors in consultation with the relevant provincial director and subject to the control and directions of the National Director. In some cases, the National Director himself will be involved in the decision-making process and he may even make the decision himself.

See the SAPS keeps on telling us what is legal or not , which is factually wrong. Only the courts decide this, but only the NPA can prosecute which they won't do. Notice that the SAPS is yapping like mongrol dog about the firearms, the NPA hasn't said anything because they can't openly state that the ANC is insane.
Click to expand...

So you say hang on to the gun?

Or can i buy it from My BF, then have him apply for a new license and let him buy it back.
 
Mila said:
When can i have a weapon? Do i go to the police station and apply for a license and wait until i get the paper work or can i apply and get the gun and then wait?
Click to expand...
Last time I looked, a smiling gunshop owner takes your money first. He then keeps the gun in a safe until you provide the license. I believe there is a better scheme where you only pay 1/2 of the money up-front. Second hand guns may have a different arrangement.

That way, if you don't get the license, you don't risk losing as much.

The licensing process can take up to 2 years. You have to write an exam and they will speak to neighbours etc..
 
Sackboy said:
Last time I looked, a smiling gunshop owner takes your money first. He then keeps the gun in a safe until you provide the license. I believe there is a better scheme where you only pay 1/2 of the money up-front. Second hand guns may have a different arrangement.

That way, if you don't get the license, you don't risk losing as much.

The licensing process can take up to 2 years. You have to write an exam and they will speak to neighbours etc..
Click to expand...

So i can buy my bf's gun and keep it at a gunshop?

Then he re apply and then i just give it back.... I see too many loop holes in this..

Did you see the guy they talked to on Carte Blanche?
 
It's like they decided to make the Token white guy the Ahole...
I thought it was hilarious!! Still do…
I mean did he not see it coming????
 
Criminals have guns, innocent people do not.
Why change the balance in the criminals' favour?
I say every good citizen must have a gun, that way criminals would think twice about commiting a crime.

Who would try rob a cafe if you knew there would be at least 5 people there with guns to shoot back?
 
You should have your gun "stolen", let the police investigate it, when they forget about it get your gun back and when you kill someone with it, tell the Police the criminal came back with it.

Ensure you get gun power residue on the criminal's hands.

My brother in law (an attorney) once received a call, the guy just shot a criminal.. my brother in law told the guy to immediately fire "warning shots".
It worked out well.

;-)
 
lsuacner said:
You should have your gun "stolen", let the police investigate it, when they forget about it get your gun back and when you kill someone with it, tell the Police the criminal came back with it.

Ensure you get gun power residue on the criminal's hands.

My brother in law (an attorney) once received a call, the guy just shot a criminal.. my brother in law told the guy to immediately fire "warning shots".
It worked out well.

;-)
Click to expand...
They can tell nowadays who had the gun and when.
 
Got a reply back.

My reply below:
Thank you for your reply.
I have applied already for deactivation, but after reading what you sent me something disturbs me greatly:

Please note that once your firearm is deactivated it is still considered a “firearm” in terms of the offences applied to firearms. Very heavy penalties apply for any firearm related offences so please take extreme care to keep a deactivated firearm safe.

What exactly is the definition of “extreme care” and “ a deactivated firearm is still considered a firearm in terms of the offences applied to firearms” ?
ie they have taken away my license but the consequences remain the same weather I have a license or not?
Eg that I must look after it at all cost and even keep it in a safe?

This seems pretty two-faced to me. On the one hand they revoking my license and forcing me to mutilate a beautiful old gun, but yet expecting me to carry on as if I had a license and a working firearm and the responsibilities that go along with it!

As far as I’m aware if I gave it to someone else, I don’t have to inform the police and go fill in a dozen forms and so on. Who knows who they in turn give it to.
The way I understand it all records of the gun and owner get wiped from the system.
As far as I’m concerned if I don’t want it anymore I can chuck it in the bin. If it ever got used in criminal activities, there would be no accusing me of anything just because I WAS licensed for it some time back in the past.

My intention was to hang it in my bar room in a glass cabinet with a blurb about how I carried it for 20 years and it was my dads and grandfather.
Thieves could break in and take it, boys will be boys so my kids could take it to school and loose it, anything could happen.

If they are still going to hold me accountable for it’s whereabouts and safety and inflict heavy penalties – why are they taking my license away?

What part of the plot am I missing here?
Click to expand...
 
As far as I know a deactivated firearm becomes like a replica. It looks real but cannot fire. More than a toy, but legal rules change about safekeeping etc. (please correct me if anyone knows better).

If you point it at someone, the law says so long as they THINK it's real, you're in the pooh!

Your 'record' probably changes like this:

Ivork; Gun_license=current; Serial=123;
Ivork; Gun_license=expired; Serial=123;Deactivated_returned
 
Sackboy said:
As far as I know a deactivated firearm becomes like a replica. It looks real but cannot fire. More than a toy, but legal rules change about safekeeping etc. (please correct me if anyone knows better).

If you point it at someone, the law says so long as they THINK it's real, you're in the pooh!
Click to expand...

Well I wouldn't go brandishing a deactivated firearm down the main road, but it is legal to do so - just someone might shoot you.

For what it's worth my response from gun owners SA:
From: GOSA [[email protected]]


However I have since found out my firearm is not even worth R1000. Guess the market is a bit flooded at the moment.

Yup.

I m not re doing the test for that. Maybe if it was good Nickel plated firearm, but not worth this old browning.

You'd be surprised. As a matter of fact, nickle plating has destroyed many collectible guns.

Now I m thinking of having it de-activated. It has sentimental value and is a far better quality item than any of the toy guns I have bought for kids so far.

It's one of the options open to you, yes.

I just need to be certain that once they have de-activated it and removed my license, all previous responsibilities regarding firearm ownership are null and void.

That is the theory, yes.

When I walk out that gunsmith after they ve deactivated it, I do not need to conceal it any longer, make sure it is kept safe and all the rest of the rules and regulations that go with firearm ownership, am I correct?

In theory, yes.

I just have this worrying scenario in my mind:

It lands up in the wrong hands.

It gets used to hold up some place / armed robbery (of course they can t actually shoot anyone), it s foiled and they get caught.

There is no way that I can be held responsible in any way? The cops can t come knocking on my door because I WAS the license holder up till 30 June can they? It would be stolen property as I m still the owner but I couldn t be held or accused of anything could I?

One would not know until it happened. Best to have your paperwork in order.

You see, the only way one could answer these questions is if one believes that the SAPS are acting rationally, and in the best interest of the public. As far as we can tell, they're not.
Click to expand...
 
I see in the paper there's going to be a big claim against the cops for the firearms that was already handed in.

But they'll probably change the law so they do not have to pay.

It makes you wonder who the real criminals are?:D
 
Ok...for those that want the whole truth and all the facts, here they are.

On 1st July, all firearms under the old act that have not been applied for relicencing or deactivation or sold, become illegal.
At that point, you are no longer allowed to sell it, cancel the licence, or deactivate it. It has to be forfeited to the state for destruction (unless they find you with it first and charge you with illegal posession)

Here are your options at this stage if you have not relicenced:

1 - Give it in to the police station for destruction (I hate this option)

2 - Give it to a gunshop where they will cancel your licence with an SAP534 and into their stock. You get proof that it has been cancelled.
If you do this, note that most shops won't pay you for it. You can make snide remarks about them getting rich or wanting all the guns, but take it from me...WE DO NOT WANT ANY MORE GUNS! We do it as a service in most cases, as 90% of the guns are cheap junk... .25's, snubbies, old Browning 7.65's, junk shotguns falling apart and old junk like Webleys etc. Occasionally the dealers get a decent gun in, but it hardly makes up for the lack of space, intense paperwork and general hassles with CFR.
I have over 10,000 in stock, NO space to store them, and no chance of selling them anytime soon. Do please don't criticise when we won't pay. Your Browning HP may be a nice gun, but I have 50 others in the safe lying there.
We will sometimes pay for stuff we can resell like Glocks and decent rifles etc.

ok..so this option has another alternative if you want to keep the gun. Hand it to the gunshop, they cancel it off your name, and then they basically allow you to apply for it again as a new licence. They will then charge you a monthly storage fee until you get a licence. This is theoretically a new application for a "new" gun, and therefore you need training and competency etc.

Note that the licence may take 6-12 months, so prepare for the storage charges. However it is the only way you get to keep that gun.

3 - Deactivation. It is HIGHLY illegal to deactivate a gun on your own. They WILL charge you. (yes..I know they need to prove it etc etc, but let's stick to the facts)
To do thislegally, go to the police station and get a form for deactivation of a firearm. You then take this form with the gun to a gunshop that has a registered gunsmith, and they fill in the form. Complete the rest, and take the gun and form to the police station.
They will then send the gun away for ballistic testing, and after a few months (anything from 3-8 months) they will notify you you are approved for deactivation and can take the gun to the gunshop where they will do the job, issue a certificate to forward to the police. Deactivation costs from R300 upwards. Once you start the application process, you are ok after the deadline at the end of this month. Your deactivation application is in process.

4 - If you have a gun that you have sold to someone, or have bought from a private individual...
That old licence is invalid after the end of this month. Therefore you cannot say you are waiting for the licence and are ok.
What you have to do is take it to a police station with the details of the purchase, and they have to store it until the new owner gets his licence and goes to fetch it. yes..they will stuff up the gun, and it may get lost there. And if you sell or buya gun from someone and the licence is refused....it is forfeited to the state. You cannot sell it after that. You lose it (still have the appeal process of course)

Otherwise you have to find a gunshop that will help, and cancel it out of your name, and then the purchaser has to apply again since it is no longer from you to him...but from the shop to him. Yes, they will charge you a fee. That space issue again.

The other option there is to (quickly!) get the applicant to apply at the police station for a temporary permit to store it. The APPLICANT can apply for this, and it is issued at station level. This means the applicant can store the gun for up to 12 months, but he MAY NOT USE IT, OR TAKE IT ANYWHERE. All he can do is store it, and not handle or use it. Hopefully he gets his licence before 12 months is up.

So there you have it.
Give it to the police. Give it to a gunshop for cancellation (write it off, or apply as a new licence) Deactivate it. Or sell it to a private individual and make sure his application is in process by the end of this month and it is stored elsewhere besides yourself.

Sorry, I really feel for the guys losing valuable guns. I had to cancel 15 of my own too.
What has become apparent is how many illegal guns there are out there...from deceased estates and ppl overseas. Many of those owners have said they are not going to hand them in. I believe all this law has done is disarm legal citizens, and bring out a huge amount of illegal guns that were previously dormant.
All Jaco Bothma has done is create about 100K new criminals that weren't criminals before. If that is his crowning glory, I feel very sad for him. That isn't exactly something to brag about. Way to go.

Note...if you have stored your gun at the police station and it is still in your name, you still have a huge problem. Either hand it in permanently, or make sure they cancel it from your name. Owning it while it is there and you haven't relicenced does not exist, and is illegal.

G26

Oh..and no matter what junk you are told about NPA and prosecutions etc...trust me you are in trouble if you are caught. The main aim is to find you guilty, make you pay a fine probably, give you a criminal record and therefore declare you unfit to ever posess a firearm licence again. Once less civilian to worry about.
 
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