Lekota lambasts Expats

Back on topic... what gives expats less right to point out the iniquities of crime than former struggle heroes living outside the country had to complain of the iniquities of apartheid?
 
Leitmotif said:
Back on topic... what gives expats less right to point out the iniquities of crime than former struggle heroes living outside the country had to complain of the iniquities of apartheid?
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You answer is in your question. They are struggle heroes for racial discrimination, oppression and destruction of Black People.
 
As opposed to the destruction and oppression of all people alike?

There's no difference. Struggle figures outside the country were vocal about the suffering of their people. This was deemed heroism. Why then when expats today decry the suffering of our citizens are their voices considered irrelevant?
 
dlk001 : and the expats are South African citizens who left because they feared for their safety and future..... there are parallels you know.
 
ToxicBunny said:
dlk001 : and the expats are South African citizens who left because they feared for their safety and future..... there are parallels you know.
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Maybe I don't see any parallels to that. Some individuals feared for their safety and future versus heroes of 70% of the population who were discriminated.
 
dlk001 said:
Maybe I don't see any parallels to that. Some individuals feared for their safety and future versus heroes of 70% of the population who were discriminated.
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70% of the population used to fear for their safety, I wouldn't be surprised if 95% do now, wasn't it 98% that said crime was out of control? A lot of people have been effectively "exiled" by crime.
 
Syndyre said:
70% of the population used to fear for their safety, I wouldn't be surprised if 95% do now, wasn't it 98% that said crime was out of control? A lot of people have been effectively "exiled" by crime.
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A lot of people were effectively "exiled" by crime for decades. The vast majority of the 70% feared for their safety and security for decades. Remember those days when you couldn't even say the word 'Mandela' without fear for your safety and security?
 
dlk001 said:
A lot of people were effectively "exiled" by crime for decades. The vast majority of the 70% feared for their safety and security for decades. Damn, i remember I couldn't even say the word 'Mandela' or walk at night after 6PM.
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That's my point, not much has changed. There are a lot of areas now where you can't reasonably walk around at night after 6pm.
 
dlk001 said:
A lot of people were effectively "exiled" by crime for decades. The vast majority of the 70% feared for their safety and security for decades. Damn, i remember I couldn't even say the word 'Mandela' or walk at night after 6PM.
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What is your point mate? The country is still in a grip of crime, but now we're not allowed to talk of it? That's a sick double standard if ever there was one.
 
Syndyre said:
That's my point, not much has changed. There are a lot of areas now where you can't reasonably walk around at night after 6pm.
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If that is your point, yes, I 100% agree there. Crime is still a problem. I was just debating the previous post

"what gives expats less right to point out the iniquities of crime than former struggle heroes living outside the country had to complain of the iniquities of apartheid?"

..and maybe, we shouldn't even debate such issues.
 
Go ahead, ignore the point. Fact is, both are instances of people outside the country trying to expose the suffering of those inside the country, despite the government's unwillingness to deal with the issues raised. It's a form of lobbying, a way to raise awareness and even bring pressure to bear.
 
Leitmotif said:
Go ahead, ignore the point. Fact is, both are instances of people outside the country trying to expose the suffering of those inside the country, despite the government's unwillingness to deal with the issues raised. It's a form of lobbying, a way to raise awareness and even bring pressure to bear.
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Not agreeing to your point of view does not equate to "ignoring the point". I can equally say that about you.

Both are instances of people outside the country trying to expose the suffering of those inside the country. Agreed by me.

1. "Expats", are exposing crime that affects South Africans.

2. "Struggle heroes", were exposing crime "apartheid" that affected a specific population group. That population group suffered from crime in point 1 amongst other crimes committed against them.

"what gives 1 less right to point out the iniquities of crime than former 2 living outside the country had to complain of the iniquities of apartheid?"

If "apartheid" had not happened, would point 1 be such an issue as it is now?
 
dlk001 said:
..and maybe, we shouldn't even debate such issues.
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Hence my admonition on ignoring the issue.

Regardless of apartheid, I believe that the middle and middle-upper class would have moved had crime become an equivalent problem. They're now living in countries where crime is nowhere near as bad, and have experienced service delivery on anti-crime policies. Hence they wish to see the same sort of delivery in their home country.
 
Leitmotif said:
Hence my admonition on ignoring the issue.

Regardless of apartheid, I believe that the middle and middle-upper class would have moved had crime become an equivalent problem. They're now living in countries where crime is nowhere near as bad, and have experienced service delivery on anti-crime policies. Hence they wish to see the same sort of delivery in their home country.
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True, I have experienced one of those those countries (Western Australia). Life was good for most people even though I couldn't stand the country. Although there is crime against humanity (Aborigines), the vast majority of people are not living on crime (compared to SA).

Maybe the "expats" in Perth should expose them for the crime against Aborigines too.
 
Actually, maybe I'm being harsh to expert the "expats" in Perth to be aware of crimes against Aborigines because it only becomes evident when you move away from inner cities where most Aborigines live. In Perth, I only saw the 1 or 2 drunk beggars.
 
BobbyMac said:
And the third says crime is a perception ;) go figure.
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It is quite amazing how some people have selective hearing, I listened to the State of the Nation, and thought that the President adressed the issue of crime quite appropriately


In this regard, government will ensure that the decisions already taken about strengthening our fight against crime are effectively implemented. The challenge that we face in addressing this issue has little to do with policies.

Rather, what is required is effective organisation, mobilisation and leadership of the mass of law-enforcement, intelligence and corrections officers, and functionaries of the justice system. The overwhelming majority of these public servants have proven over and over again in actual practice that they are prepared to put their lives on the line and to sacrifice even the little quality time they could have with their families, in defence of our freedom and our security.

In addition to the many ongoing programmes that we have been implementing, government will this year:
* continue to improve the remuneration and working conditions of the police, and start the process of further expanding the personnel of the South African Police Service to bring their total number to over 180 000 within three years, and ensure optimal utilisation of the electronic monitoring and evaluation system that has just been introduced;
* bring to full capacity the forensic laboratories which have been equipped with the latest technology, and ensure the optimum utilisation of the finger-print database - indeed, many of the recent successes in solving serious crime incidents have been facilitated by these systems;
* bring the operations of the Department of Home Affairs to full capacity, by filling vacant posts, improving systems and implementing other recommendations of the Task Team that has been working with the Minister to improve the work of this vital institution;
* implement the recommendations of the Khampepe Commission on the mandate and operations of the Directorate of Special Operations (Scorpions);
* start the process of further modernising the systems of the South African Revenue Services, especially in respect of border control, and improve the work of the inter-departmental co-ordinating structures in this regard;
* intensify intelligence work with regard to organised crime, building on the successes that have been achieved in the last few months in dealing with cash-in-transit heists, drug trafficking and poaching of game and abalone;
* utilise to maximum effect the new technology that has been provided to the justice system and generally improve management of the courts and the prosecution service, in order massively to reduce case backlogs;
* finalise remaining elements of measures to transform the judiciary and improve its functioning, in consultation with this eminent institution of our democracy;
* implement the programmes decided upon to build more corrections facilities and realise the objectives of the White Paper on Corrections;
* continue with the processes further to capacitate our intelligence agencies, and ensure that at all times they operate within the framework of our Constitution and laws; and
* improve our analysis of crime trends to improve our performance with regard both to crime prevention and crime combating. In this regard, we must respond to the cold reality that, as in other countries, the overwhelming majority of violent crimes against the person occur in the most socio-economically deprived areas of our country and require strong and sustained community interventions focused on crime prevention.
As we have already said, these and other measures will succeed only if we build an enduring partnership in actual practice within our communities and between the communities and the police, to make life more and more difficult for the criminals.

In this regard, we are heartened by the resolve shown by leaders of the business and religious communities further to strengthen such partnerships on the ground, and to give of their time and resources to strengthen the fight against crime. Government will play its part to ensure that these partnerships actually work, and that we all act together to discharge the responsibility to protect our citizens.

I should mention in this regard that the Ministry of Safety and Security and the Police Service are working on proposals further to improve the functioning and effectiveness of the vitally important Community Police Forums.


State of the Nation -
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These are solid, concrete measures in an effort to further reduce the levels of crime in the country, yet the Opposition still says he said little about crime, which gives credence to the statement by the President that the issue of crime is being irresponsibly used for political gain

In the face of a sustained campaign by some to seek political gain from the
problem of crime, the people of South Africa need to maintain a steady focus
on the key problems, challenges and practical tasks that need to be
undertaken to defeat this scourge. We cannot allow this important work to be
diverted by the feverish denouncements that have preoccupied so many in the
media in the two weeks since the ANC presented the fight against crime as
one its priority tasks for the year. The most vehement criticism has been
reserved for those who have dared to suggest that our efforts should be
guided by concrete reality rather than by alarmist hyperbole.

Letter from the President
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No-one's going to be happy until they see *results*. This was the same sort of rhetoric as last year.
 
You listened to it or you wrote it? Besides, you're the most pro Mbeki person in the forum - he can do nothing wrong in your eyes so what's the point even trying to talk to you? You already have your perception don't you?
 
I agree with Leitmotif. Talk is cheap...

We want action and results NOW.
 
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