Linux is not hard, it's ignored - Column

porchrat said:
Meh. I have been using Linux for quite a few years now and I don't consider myself an expert at all. I always see guys on the net with answers that make me go... O.o

Sure I can do a bit of bash, run some little servers, force a driver install if something really stupid is happening to the machine... normal stuff like that that I don't consider to be very advanced at all compared to what some of these people are doing on their machines. I don't even have a formal Linux qualification.

I think becoming a true expert takes years of dedication and I just haven't been alive that long. I don't consider myself a Windows expert either in fact it is remarkable how quickly you forget where everything is in Windows once you stop using it. I didn't even know XP had a system recovery thing, that thing is moerse useful.
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I'm in the same boat, so I fully agree. I am far from considering myself an expert at Linux, but I think that those who have used Linux for a while, generally have an appreciation of how much they don't know.
 
porchrat said:
Could you imagine a new user installing Windows and not running into a single problem? I mean someone who has never used Windows before. No experience on previous versions, no nothing.

Linux is not difficult, it is just different and takes some getting used to. Most people jumping onto Windows have used it at school, or have used previous versions so the interface is already pretty familiar, this is not the case with Linux and a lot fo users find that disturbing. Once you get over that initial shokc and start using it day-to-day you realise that yes some things are moved around but Linux and Windows still perform the same functions, they just go about them in different ways. Assuming no bugs occur (and this can happen regardless of the OS) Linux is a great experience.

There are helpful guides out there to show new users how to operate Linux, especially in the case of Ubuntu. The community down at ubuntuforums.org is also one of the most welcoming I have ever encountered and they are all more than happy to help new users I know because I once in a while have done so myself.
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I can tell you, that my father recently moved from Windows Vista to XP (his old laptop died and he got a netbook). The amount of swearing, cursing, and wailing and gnasing of teeth that came from him was astounding. Likewise, I recently was witness to someone who had just upgraded to Win7 from XP the moer in with her computer, as nothing worked the way she wanted it to. The Office 2007 interface was another story altogether.

The average user still, in my experience, has problems moving between versions of Windows, I don't think learning Linux will be anything above the ordinary in that regard.
 
Interesting

Very interesting reading all the discussions. In my mind I see the how some IT gurus get into furious discussions - they believe they need to persuade someone else that 1 > 2. The world just don't understand, they have all the answers!

I've done linux, ccna, mcse, c++, open source - all of it. Everything has a place in the bigger picture. My VM's are linux-based, network has several other linux platforms and routers. Also using brilliant packages like Scalix and various open source solutions - all for (almost) free.

Is Linux hard? Depending on your definition of hard. Windows can also be hard and used to be- especially if you remember the days of installing from 13x 1.44Mb and installing TCP/IP as an additional protocol. But this used to be the standard which has changed and Linux has also improved significantly.

At the end of the day something works for you if it addresses your needs. You cannot make decisions based on someone else s needs.

I'm running Windows 7. Most probably because I've installed the RC and never looked back. Or maybe all my clients use Windows and the .NET platform / Microsoft SQL. Maybe it addresses all my technological needs. Or just maybe all of them.

Why would I even try to persuade someone else to use Windows 7? I might recommend it to my friends because I believe it works great, but they might still prefer a Linux flavor. Why do I need to install Ubuntu on a separate partition? Just because an IT guru told me how great Ubuntu is? UBuntu is great, I've seen it and loves it.

The same argument valid for database engines. Essentially they do the same - the Linux versions might be harder but depending on your needs it just might work.

Is Linux hard in comparison to Windows? I bit different yes and maybe a little harder than Windows (in my opinion), but you make the call.
 
Linux is hard because it challenges ones assumptions about the way the world works.

Linux is freedom as opposed to slavery.

Linux is community as opposed to selfishness.

Linux is an example of a voluntary aid, mutual benefit and cooperative society that is based upon copyleft, free culture, open source and the GNU licence.

Windows on the other hand, is an example of a hierarchical, commercial, capitalist driven copyright and patent scheme which creates criminals and a police state needed to enforce intellectual property law.

Microsoft has Wizards which create the illusion of user independence, Linux has online software Gurus and a bash terminal, with scripts and tutorials for hands-on computing.

If Microsoft were any easier, it would create a monthly deduction off your bank account directly into the corporation.

Linux is difficult because there is usually no direct licensing fee involved.

Rather, one pays for labour in Linux the same way one pays for labour in the real world, via monetary exchange, barter, gifting and other alternative economic schemes.

The illusion of a labour-free world created by Microsoft and so many blatantly wrong visions of the future needs to be exposed

Instead of paying for labour, M$ users rip off goods and services resulting in a pirate economy based upon the commercial world.

With Linux the Emperor has no clothes. You get what you pay for, and you are not forced to pay for anything. In fact Linux encourages cashless exchanges that involve gifting in which the entire community is enriched.

I choose Linux because it encapsulates everything I feel about the world. The OS I use, Ubuntu Linux, is just a byproduct of a far deeper philosophical paradigm, one in which I have been actively involved on and off for the past 20 years.

Hope this helps.
 
Linux is hard because it challenges ones assumptions about the way the world works.

Linux is freedom as opposed to slavery.

Linux is community as opposed to selfishness.

Linux is an example of a voluntary aid, mutual benefit and cooperative society that is based upon copyleft, free culture, open source and the GNU licence.

Windows on the other hand, is an example of a hierarchical, commercial, capitalist driven copyright and patent scheme which creates criminals and a police state needed to enforce intellectual property law.

Microsoft has Wizards which create the illusion of user independence, Linux has online software Gurus and a bash terminal, with scripts and tutorials for hands-on computing.

If Microsoft were any easier, it would create a monthly deduction off your bank account directly into the corporation.

Linux is difficult because there is usually no direct licensing fee involved.

Rather, one pays for labour in Linux the same way one pays for labour in the real world, via monetary exchange, barter, gifting and other alternative economic schemes.

The illusion of a labour-free world created by Microsoft and so many blatantly wrong visions of the future needs to be exposed

Instead of paying for labour, M$ users rip off goods and services resulting in a pirate economy based upon the commercial world.

With Linux the Emperor has no clothes. You get what you pay for, and you are not forced to pay for anything. In fact Linux encourages cashless exchanges that involve gifting in which the entire community is enriched.

I choose Linux because it encapsulates everything I feel about the world. The OS I use, Ubuntu Linux, is just a byproduct of a far deeper philosophical paradigm, one in which I have been actively involved on and off for the past 20 years.

Hope this helps.
 
Tassidar said:
For my own part, I'm not trying so much to convert people to linux - that is very much their choice. However, I hate watching the same old (untrue) myths being sprouted about Linux. All I want is for Linux to be given a fair chance.
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I agree with you. I found a very easy way to convert people. As the IT go-to-guy for a lot of people, I stopped supporting them in windows environments. Sorted, a lot started looking at Linux, and even my dad (who is on pension) is using Linux. I have yet to find someone (home use) that needs something that does not run on Linux. Windows games, yes. But you would battle to better the educational programs available on Linux.
 
afrodeity said:
Linux is hard because it challenges ones assumptions about the way the world works.

Linux is freedom as opposed to slavery.

Linux is community as opposed to selfishness.

Linux is an example of a voluntary aid, mutual benefit and cooperative society that is based upon copyleft, free culture, open source and the GNU licence.

Windows on the other hand, is an example of a hierarchical, commercial, capitalist driven copyright and patent scheme which creates criminals and a police state needed to enforce intellectual property law.

Microsoft has Wizards which create the illusion of user independence, Linux has online software Gurus and a bash terminal, with scripts and tutorials for hands-on computing.

If Microsoft were any easier, it would create a monthly deduction off your bank account directly into the corporation.

Linux is difficult because there is usually no direct licensing fee involved.

Rather, one pays for labour in Linux the same way one pays for labour in the real world, via monetary exchange, barter, gifting and other alternative economic schemes.

The illusion of a labour-free world created by Microsoft and so many blatantly wrong visions of the future needs to be exposed

Instead of paying for labour, M$ users rip off goods and services resulting in a pirate economy based upon the commercial world.

With Linux the Emperor has no clothes. You get what you pay for, and you are not forced to pay for anything. In fact Linux encourages cashless exchanges that involve gifting in which the entire community is enriched.

I choose Linux because it encapsulates everything I feel about the world. The OS I use, Ubuntu Linux, is just a byproduct of a far deeper philosophical paradigm, one in which I have been actively involved on and off for the past 20 years.

Hope this helps.
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Hmmm... touching... just a pity the community can't come together and capture the mass market... Then again, you would have to teach people to stop being dazzled with flashy lights and expensive marketing - not possible IMO. Pity the 'community' doesn't have an advertising budget or full page color ads - that would make a difference. My question to the 'community' is - those of you who sell PCs, why don't you offer dual-boot as an option out of the box? Even charge for it, but let people have both... Or just offer them linux and no Windows (although that wouldn't be popular at the moment).
 
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ave said:
agreed- most people dont want to learn a new way of doing things- they just want to pick something up and have it work.

I personally feel that in order for linux to grow they need to
1) get into schools, so that people are trained how to use it from an early age
2) get into government- the more users they can get, they more likely companies are to create software and officially supported drivers
(both of these are currently happening I am happy to say)
3) need to put a lot of time/resources into opengl so that gaming can return to being cross platform.
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I fully support you with these goals.
 
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Kosmik said:
Linux fanboys at it again :D
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God I cringe when I see people start talking about "Linux is freedom!!!" "Windows is slavery!"

"You may take my root, but you will never take ... ... OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!"

Seriously guys it makes you look like crazed hippies. The only reason I get involved in these discussions is because I hate it when people say Linux is worthless or has no value or can't do anything because I personally believe that to be incorrect. To mindlessly hate another operating system like some of the Linux proponents do with Windows is just plain narrow-minded and honestly just makes the world see Linux users as foaming-at-the-mouth communists.

Can we not just have a decent conversation about this sort of thing without turning into an ideology war (I'm looking at you afrodiety)

Besides what does this mean anyway:

Linux is difficult because there is usually no direct licensing fee involved.

Rather, one pays for labour in Linux the same way one pays for labour in the real world, via monetary exchange, barter, gifting and other alternative economic schemes.
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How does difficulty and licensing even relate? Could you show me a graph? Is this an inverse or directly proportional relationship? As license fees increase does FREEDOM!!! decrease? Is this a causal relationship or merely correlation?

There are a multitude of users in the Linux community that offer nothing in return, not everyone contributes to the community as you seem to imply with that sentence. Sorry guys but the Linux proponents are starting to spout idealistic nonsense in the same way that those who have never used Linux discuss it's supposed lack of functionality.

Also well said MobileAllOver.
 
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afrodeity said:
Linux is hard because it challenges ones assumptions about the way the world works.

Linux is freedom as opposed to slavery.

Linux is community as opposed to selfishness.

Linux is an example of a voluntary aid, mutual benefit and cooperative society that is based upon copyleft, free culture, open source and the GNU licence.

Windows on the other hand, is an example of a hierarchical, commercial, capitalist driven copyright and patent scheme which creates criminals and a police state needed to enforce intellectual property law.

Microsoft has Wizards which create the illusion of user independence, Linux has online software Gurus and a bash terminal, with scripts and tutorials for hands-on computing.

If Microsoft were any easier, it would create a monthly deduction off your bank account directly into the corporation.

Linux is difficult because there is usually no direct licensing fee involved.

Rather, one pays for labour in Linux the same way one pays for labour in the real world, via monetary exchange, barter, gifting and other alternative economic schemes.

The illusion of a labour-free world created by Microsoft and so many blatantly wrong visions of the future needs to be exposed

Instead of paying for labour, M$ users rip off goods and services resulting in a pirate economy based upon the commercial world.

With Linux the Emperor has no clothes. You get what you pay for, and you are not forced to pay for anything. In fact Linux encourages cashless exchanges that involve gifting in which the entire community is enriched.

I choose Linux because it encapsulates everything I feel about the world. The OS I use, Ubuntu Linux, is just a byproduct of a far deeper philosophical paradigm, one in which I have been actively involved on and off for the past 20 years.

Hope this helps.
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I suggest you read this blog for information on why Desktop Linux is an abject failure, and why the majority of what you posted is complete and utter BS.
 
The_Assimilator said:
I suggest you read this blog for information on why Desktop Linux is an abject failure, and why the majority of what you posted is complete and utter BS.
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Bismuth said:
Uhm, dude, that's as bad as linking to windowshaters.blogspot.com, or something similar. That blog refers to Firefox as well, BTW

B
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It also refers to the 64bit flash plugin from Adobe, how it is still in alpha and is buggy as though it is Linux's fault that Adobe never bothered to move it out of alpha or put any development effort into it. Nicely done guy.

Probably the least helpful and least informative link I have ever read all the guy does is swear all the way down the page.

I am also still trying to find the parts in the blog that show "why the majority of what [afrodiety] posted is complete and utter BS". If you could point them out to me through the myriad of crazy hobo rambling it would be most appreciated.
 
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porchrat said:
It also refers to the 64bit flash issue as though it is Linux's fault that Adobe never bothered to move it out of alpha. Nicely done guys. Probably the least helpful and least informative link I have ever read all the guy does is swear all the way down the page.

I am also still trying to find the parts in the blog that show "why the majority of what [afrodiety] posted is complete and utter BS". If you could point them out to me through the myriad of crazy hobo rambling it would be most appreciated.
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You know, usually when I come across someone who has a beef with linux and open-source, I try to find out what the reason is that they are so anti. But this guy?. My goodness me, all I can see is pure hate, for whatever reason. Although, it seems he also has issues with sound and using apt, I would ask him if he's tried the Ubuntu Software Centre or Synaptic, but I might get my head taken off, so I won't.

And it's common knowledge that doing a distro-update via the Upgrade Manager is not a good idea, in most cases. Although, looking at the UF site, some have managed, but they are in the minority.

B
 
The_Assimilator said:
I suggest you read this blog for information on why Desktop Linux is an abject failure, and why the majority of what you posted is complete and utter BS.
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You need to get at least a post count of 100 to play with the big boys first. Oh, and don't waste valuable bandwidth with stupid links. Its one friggn blog - I don't care.

If you don't like a flavour of an OS then don't use it ! But really, I don't care what OS you use, I only care about what I use.
 
eix-sync&&emerge;3586720 said:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1766/blehe.jpg
Myn is similiar :D , notice the tiny menu on the left :P
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haha thanks you just undid our entire linux isn't too complicated argument :D

what setup are you using there- I like the desktop on the right with the info bar and transparent taskbar

EDIT* never mind I see the info is there in the terminal already...
 
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I tried Linux a few years ago and my experience was... if I hit a problem with windows I was generally able get on the net and find an answer, if I hit a snag with Linux (and I did) I could not get on the net to find a solution because most of the problems I had was with getting onto the net in the first place! Most of the linux boffins I encountered gave me the old "typical windows user" look down their nose and rattled off long meaningless command line solutions that did not help, at the end of the day it was just easier to hit the button and run windows . Dont get me wrong, I would love to run linux but I dont think I need all that grief in my life.
 
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