Local Loop Unbundling: Please give your feedback

What form/s of Local Loop Unbundling do you realistically favour in SA?

  • Full local loop unbundling (full access)

    Votes: 570 90.5%

  • Sub-loop unbundling

    Votes: 247 39.2%

  • Line sharing (shared access to the local loop)

    Votes: 196 31.1%

  • Bitstream access (wholesale access)

    Votes: 216 34.3%
  • Total voters
    630
I am tending towards Full local loop unbundling, but as many members on the forum have mentioned, this will lead to problems with resolving cable breaks. For example, if I have naked ADSL and no Telkom voice service, then why would Telkom bother to fix my line. Thus the problem I see with Full local loop unbundling is the reference that is made to Telkom's 'raw copper'. In my opinion the copper should no belong to Telkom, but rather another organisation which is managed by a board with members from Telkom and the ISPs. For support issues the customer can contact his/her ADSL ISP or Telkom (maybe even Neotel) for voice and they would log the call with the organisation looking after the copper.

Currently Telkom owns the copper and provides services via the copper. This puts them in an unhealthy position where they can use their ownership of the copper to gain an unfair advantage over other service providers that need to use the copper.

Alternatively, if Telkom is going to be the organisation in charge of the copper, perhaps they shouldn't be providing voice and data services. Why not pass these business activities off to 8ta or create one or two new service providers for these activities.

Perhaps I am very naive with my suggestions, but I do think that for years Telkom has had too much power and I am not sure if they are really acting in the best interests of the public.
 
I voted for all except Line Share. As stated in so many other posts here , this will allow new copper /fiber from these previously inaccessible locations to Spawn :D
{only speculation} but it could happen
 
SLU v LLU

The first option that one needs to consider before any one decides to go with LLU or SLU..... is...:
What is the quality of the copper. If you have poor quality copper, will any one want broadband with a poor connection.
In SA, you work hard for your money. The last thing you want is to pay a service Provider for a service they cant provide because the copper lines are of a sub standard quality.
Now if the lines are of a quality that one can work with, then this all can take place.
My Father used to work for Telkom and he used to bring colour coated copper wires for us to mess with. If the quality is as good as it was then, then this will not be an issue.

What you need to ponder is the following:
By unbundling the line, in any way, is this really going to open the floodgates for cheaper faster broadband. Whether you live in the city or the sticks, the technology is there to supply an internet link (radio transmitters). If you use LLU or SLU, than any one can become a SP. what will be the test is how good the SP will be.
if there is a fault in the line, it will be beneficial for the SP to get this resolved if they wish to remain in business. Whilst your LL is serviced by Telkom or any 3rd party contractor, this isn’t a real issue for they will do the job because they will charge the SP for servicing or repairing their part of the line. Obviously Telkom must hold primary obligation to keep the lines in a satisfactory condition or there is no real purpose to this discussion.

Once the LL has been opened, there will then be scope to sell discounted lines so that SLU can take place. All options will benefit SA as you will be able to proudly announce to the world that your broadband is now as good as theirs ( except japan and usa).
I know how expensive internet is in SA. I live in the UK and thanks to SLU, you can get up to 8mbps broadband for less than R80 (uncapped)
I would personally vote for SLU. this will leave Telcom in charge of maintaining the lines. If a SP makes a mess, Telcom can charge to fix the line. If TelKom dont maintain the lines then this may lead to them bieng sued for loss of BB or even loss of earnings, so it would be in their interest to keep the lines well maintained.
Obviously they will sell the lines to SP for a wholesale price but as they are in a sense still providing a service, it will be their responsibility to keep the copper in good nic. If however, Telkom sell the lines at stupidly high prices, then there is no point to SLU as it will still be slow and expensive. In this case LLU would be the preferred option.
I am currently project managing a new broadband installation in a local community.
We will be using SLU but our main lines to all residents will be Fibre as ADSL, ADSL 2, ADSL 2 + and even VDSL is if not already, becoming redundant technology. We will be supplying 10mbps with no contention for the first 35 residents, then 18mbps with no contention and so forth.

What ever solution SA chooses to adopt, this is the first step to opening great opportunities to all as one will be able to use the internet to promote their business, thus having more capitol to invest into their businesses.
 
IMO It must be remember ed that Telkom in a way is at a disadvantage. Problems accuring due to unbundling:
Telkom loses more business (because of competition) and revenue and has to lay off people. If this is stopped by government than likly Telkom will declare bankrupcy leaving the country without a landline operator.

I fellt hat both Telkom and Neotel should be forced to unbundle thier networks regardless of route as they BOTH have licenses as land line operators.

It can be argued that Telkom is a monopoly but that 's really not true as we have a 2nd operator for years. Its merely the fact that the 2nd operator has chosen to ignore the terms of its licensing and not provide cost effective (re competitive) consumer products.

So I fell that it should be unbundled at a wholesale level after all the biggest critisism of Telkom is that they bundle thier rental with the ADSL line. If other companies feel this is the case than they should PAY telkom the installation cost of the line and than they should choose how they wish to use the line.

RE: Neotel as the second imcumbent has no right to the copper line as they have a license to build thier own infrastructure.
 
Im my book complete unbundling should occur. Everybody is going on about the upkeep and maintainance of the copper at the moment but in truth our backbone is antiquated and out of dated and new cables or even fibre optic cables (we can only pray and hope) need to be laid. It is not to say too blow Telkom out of the water but if there is opportunity for other companies to see value in the industry and take complete sales (and not just "rent"from) Telkom, it will force Telkom to up their game to the consumer. I am sure that 8-ta will be more customer service aware than Telkom is currently even though they are actually the same company. difference? competition in the mobile sector while currently no competition for fixed line.
 
MightyMuffinMan said:
Telkom loses more business (because of competition) and revenue and has to lay off people. If this is stopped by government than likly Telkom will declare bankrupcy leaving the country without a landline operator.
Click to expand...
this may actually be a good thing for Telkom as they will have to restructure their pricing to compete with everyone else. they may not loose out here but gain... ( looking at this in a more positive form :) )
 
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I think the only option is Full Unbundling. This is probably the only way the local loop will ever be shortened as well. I paid R133 today to Telkom for telephone line rental, into which only my router is plugged. A total waste, but I have no choice. Full Unbundling will allow that choice. After months of fighting with Telkom to get my line terminated at a closer DSLAM, the new DSLAM does not support 10mbps, and they "have no plans to upgrade the specific DSLAM with Metro Ethernet for the forseeable future"
 
The sooner the 39% state-owned part is privatise, the sooner all the problems will stop
 
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So many people are complaining about that R133, but how do they expect Telkom to maintain the copper to their house if Telkom don't charge for it? Would you rather Telkom charge you R600 for a callout regardless if your issue is with the copper or not?
 
I complain about the R133 which Telkom uses towards maintaining voice equipment. Equipment which I don't need but have no choice but to pay for.
 
LLU

Full LLU

Enough said.

We've waited faaaaarrrrr tooooo loooonngggg.....

Let the revolution begin.... And thank you :twisted:
 
All 4 should be implemented. At the rate that copper cable is being ripped out and stolen there may not be enough copper to lay new cables. Telkom should look at a fibre infrastructure which would be a long term solution rather than providing an income for the scrap yards.
 
Qwikslver said:
So many people are complaining about that R133, but how do they expect Telkom to maintain the copper to their house if Telkom don't charge for it? Would you rather Telkom charge you R600 for a callout regardless if your issue is with the copper or not?
Click to expand...

Ok, so then they should just charge you more for a data line (but less than having both), but forcing us to pay monthly for voice and data when you only need data is just wrong.
 
I haven't voted for any specific option. I believe there's a 5th option worth considering, related to full LLU. Instead of taking the local loop away from Telkom, rather split out Telkom's capacity to maintain the local loop into a separate company. This company would then manage the local loop and lease it to everyone who wants to use it in an equal and equitable way, including Telkom itself. Leaving any part of the Local Loop in Telkom's hands would encourage cross-subsidisation into Telkom and access to the loop would remain unbalanced and would unfairly advantage Telkom at the expense of other operators.

In summary: Don't let Telkom manage the local loop as Telkom and then force them to give full access to other operators. Take the local loop away from Telkom and give it to an new independent, separate commercial entity that can then manage, maintain and lease the local loop to any and every operator equally.

Juice
 
Juice said:
I haven't voted for any specific option. I believe there's a 5th option worth considering, related to full LLU. Instead of taking the local loop away from Telkom, rather split out Telkom's capacity to maintain the local loop into a separate company. This company would then manage the local loop and lease it to everyone who wants to use it in an equal and equitable way, including Telkom itself. Leaving any part of the Local Loop in Telkom's hands would encourage cross-subsidisation into Telkom and access to the loop would remain unbalanced and would unfairly advantage Telkom at the expense of other operators.

In summary: Don't let Telkom manage the local loop as Telkom and then force them to give full access to other operators. Take the local loop away from Telkom and give it to an new independent, separate commercial entity that can then manage, maintain and lease the local loop to any and every operator equally.

Juice
Click to expand...
As per BT OpenReach?
Agreed.
 
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