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Question of the Day: Was the Airlink flyover too low?
Mandela, The Sensitive Leader
Calm down, you haven't read my post properly, you've completely misread it in every respect. There was absolutely no value judgment in my use of the word.
And you completely misread my statement about America EVEN THOUGH I predicted somebody would and explained it in advance. Please go read it again ... slowly this time. I was not using America to justify anything - COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE, AS I VERY CLEARLY STATED, I was almost literally on YOUR side of the argument, hello - because America had their own illicit motivations to do so with their dirty little proxy wars during the Cold War era and their funding of apartheid (again, please read up on the history - if you'd understood what I'd written, you wouldn't have interpreted my post so completely incorrectly).
All I was doing was correcting incorrect facts that you posted. It just isn't true that only the apartheid state labelled Mandela a terrorist, as you claimed. And it just isn't true that Mandela was "not a terrorist", as you claimed --- BY DEFINITION he is one, because he employed terrorism as a strategy. That IS what a terrorist IS regardless of the reasons they are doing it. You can't deny that MK bombed civilian targets. That IS terrorism. Bombing civilian targets is terrorism. MK did it.
As I said, this is a mere statement of fact with NO VALUE JUDGMENT in it --- it could EASILY be argued that Mandela employed terrorism as an agent of GOOD to combat EVIL. Just about the whole world would agree with that.
Do you know what a "value judgment" is? Do you know what the "Cold War" was? Do you know what a "proxy war" is? Please understand what I wrote before you make all sorts of completely incorrect assumptions.
The whole world is idolising Mandela right now so I'm anyway not sure why you need to be so upset. They've put up statues of him in London, they're throwing big parties for him worldwide, they're even painting a big portrait of him at the UN headquarters in New York (against their very own rules of putting up portraits of leaders - get that - out of EVERY PERSON who EVER LIVED, they think HE is the one worthy of that honour), and he's getting worldwide media attention for what a wonderful bloke he was/is. So chill a little.
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Do not state no value judgments, and use comments like Mandela was a terrorist, because if your statement is a no value judgment, why bring it up in the first place, if it has got no value? In whose MOTHERLAND was he terrorizing?
In whose MOTHERLAND was he terrorizing?
South African citizens'? Stop acting like you own the country.
By South African citizens', you mean black and white?
Except the around 100 000 people who were murdered during his 5 years as president, murderers "encouraged and commissioned" by those evil white racists according to him
. And 100 000s who are dying now while he attends concerts with Amy Winehouse and charms the queen over a cup of tea. Bless him 
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Anyone that was born here, yes.
I didn't bring it up first, someone else did. My own motivation was to stick to 'facts'.
Do not state no value judgments, and use comments like Mandela was a terrorist, because if your statement is a no value judgment, why bring it up in the first place, if it has got no value? In whose MOTHERLAND was he terrorizing?
Dude, unless your Khoi-san, this might not be you motherland either by your assumed definition
But hey, Mandela has some Khoi-san in him, so he could at least claim that
And i do think he is a great man, flaws and all.
Except the around 100 000 people who were murdered during his 5 years as president, "encouraged and commissioned" by those evil white racists acording to him
Which race are the 100 000 people that died during his reign? The 100 000 dying now, are supposed to be his responsibility? Give the old man a break, it shows your lack of appreciation and lack of insight to what he has achieved.With that kind of attitude, you are an embarrassment to the Rainbow Nation.
But then the Non_Europeans were not treated as citizens, remember 'dompas',this land belonged to the Colonialists and they did as they saw fit.
I really don't understand what you are trying to say? If you are going to go all historical, you better be able to take the criticism of Mandela as well.
If you can dish it out, you better be able to eat it as well.
I'm a South African. This is my motherland. Nowhere else on earth do you get Afrikaners. So stop acting all unique and precious, 'cause really, you aren't.
What are you trying to say? Seriously. Point?
Were Africans allowed the same privileges as their counterparts, transport system, toilets, parks, services, to name but a few?
There is nothing to criticise him for, any man of integrity would have done what he has done for his people, sacrificed his freedom for the greater benefit of all. Remember De la Rey?
Of course there is. He even admits so himself. From Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_mandela#Guerrilla_activities
At least he takes responsibility for it and admits it.
Listen, I have nothing against Mandela. I'm not that old, so I don't really remember the presidents before him - but he sure as heck is better than the one after him.
What the hell are you on about? I am trying to relate what you are saying to the original post that you have responded to but cannot make sense of what the hell you point is?
ironrod said:
EtienneK said:
ironrod said:
EtienneK said:
ironrod said:
?ironrod said:
You are asking for his definition of an SA citizen but then start going off on a tangent about non-europeans not being treated the same.
Slightly ironic.
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Was it really a good thing that Nelson was so forgiving, shouldn't we have had a world wide, hard core trail of all the things that happened in apartheid. And then immediately seeked Fair and Precise(as most as possible) Justice for it?
And why is it that so many (most of the extreemists) have became ossies already, running away before any justice, who has to pay for that in their expense?
Should we have not accounted for every single thing, from the whites and non-whites, and every group they have in them also, the goods and bads from both sides.
Should we have not put this out and settled all legitimate claims, had an robust BEE, based on truth and individual histories, and not on groups. And continued the BEE, after that, one which makes sure that it did include all people that did not take part in apartheid, or went against it or moved to the land a few years after it, or was not born in it.
Other large trading partners would have then understood what is happening and would have agreed on this.
The ANC does not seem to be placing in justice it seems to be making non-apartheid supporting whites take the blame and pay for this, and in communities world wide too, so that the africans which did not live in apartheid society and are now lately urbanized, benefit from BEE.
The government and South African society playing are seeming to play an eye for an eye now, and many or most of the whites/forigners that did not support or take part in apartheid, now has to pay for it, their children too.
And why is it that so many (most of the extreemists) have became ossies already, running away before any justice, who has to pay for that in their expense?
Should we have not accounted for every single thing, from the whites and non-whites, and every group they have in them also, the goods and bads from both sides.
Should we have not put this out and settled all legitimate claims, had an robust BEE, based on truth and individual histories, and not on groups. And continued the BEE, after that, one which makes sure that it did include all people that did not take part in apartheid, or went against it or moved to the land a few years after it, or was not born in it.
Other large trading partners would have then understood what is happening and would have agreed on this.
The ANC does not seem to be placing in justice it seems to be making non-apartheid supporting whites take the blame and pay for this, and in communities world wide too, so that the africans which did not live in apartheid society and are now lately urbanized, benefit from BEE.
The government and South African society playing are seeming to play an eye for an eye now, and many or most of the whites/forigners that did not support or take part in apartheid, now has to pay for it, their children too.
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Freshy-ZN
Executive Member
ironrod....you are insinuating that non-blacks have no right to be here. Be very careful. You are no better than the worst racist with those beliefs.
Just because you think Mandela is greater than Jesus doesnt mean everyone else does. You insist that noone has the right to criticise him? Well you are more than wrong. When people dont join you in your hero worship of someone who is complicit in the deaths of innocent people you throw your toys our the cot?
Its
Just because you think Mandela is greater than Jesus doesnt mean everyone else does. You insist that noone has the right to criticise him? Well you are more than wrong. When people dont join you in your hero worship of someone who is complicit in the deaths of innocent people you throw your toys our the cot?
Its