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Hemi300c
Honorary Master
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I thought some miners were shot in the back? if so then it could be from their own as well as instigators - not impossible.
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Marikana Shootings Farlam Commission Thread
I thought some miners were shot in the back? if so then it could be from their own as well as instigators - not impossible.
ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2005
- Messages
- 49,775
That is not the SA way. She will be promoted instead.
Justin_Credible
Well-Known Member
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- Jun 2, 2011
- Messages
- 255
Cant blame her, she's a victim of Zuma's incompetence
Oh, she has all of her own incompetence.
Wouldn't you need to identify the individuals who actually shot and killed, as well as have evidence of who did what? Even if you accept the miners were shot by the police (which doesn't seem to be in doubt) - it doesn't mean every policeman there fired a shot, or managed to hit anyone or kill anyone.
Just being there as a policeman doesn't mean you are guilty of murder, by association, surely?
Just being there as a policeman doesn't mean you are guilty of murder, by association, surely?
ToxicBunny
Oi! Leave me out of this...
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2006
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- 113,505
Phiyega is an embarrassment to the police.
Unfortunately like most ministers, she needs to be fired, but we all know that will never happen.
Unfortunately like most ministers, she needs to be fired, but we all know that will never happen.
R13...
Honorary Master
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- Aug 4, 2008
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- 46,553
She has the logic of a criminal.
Kotze (the Modimolle monster) says, he didn't kill his 19 year old step son but does remember threatening him with a gun and heard a gun go off but doesn't know who shot him. They remember everything except the incriminating bits.
Kotze (the Modimolle monster) says, he didn't kill his 19 year old step son but does remember threatening him with a gun and heard a gun go off but doesn't know who shot him. They remember everything except the incriminating bits.
Mila
Honorary Master
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- Nov 11, 2008
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- 54,969
I don't think anyone is having a go at the individual plod (except those who planted weapons or shot the wounded). They were defending themselves.
The real issue is how it came to this. And this is where this idiot is failing.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Cop Report Admits to Killing
A police report confirms that officers shot dead 34 striking mineworkers at Marikana, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Wednesday.
Dumisa Ntsebenza, for the families of the deceased, said the report showed that the police did not dispute shooting dead the miners, and that the argument was about the circumstances behind the killings.
According to the report, 30 of the miners died on the scene and four died in hospital, Ntsebenza said.
Earlier, national police commissioner Riah Phiyega said it had not been confirmed that police killed the miners.
"I understand that 34 miners were killed, but to say who killed them, I cannot comment on that."
Under cross-examination at the commission in Rustenburg, Phiyega asked that she not be asked unfair questions to which she had no answers.
She told the commission no one had been arrested or suspended following the deaths.
Ntsebenza questioned Phiyega about two affidavits she had handed in.
In one, she stated that she received advice from Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa to go to Marikana and get a first-hand account of the situation.
In the other, she said she advised Mthethwa that she would do so.
Ntsebenza said Phiyega had chosen the second statement as her final one because it was the "more comfortable one".
"The statement relieves both you and the minister from coming here to explain on which grounds the order was given," said Ntsebenza.
Phiyega maintained that this was an error which she and her lawyers had sought to correct at the beginning of the inquiry.
The commission is investigating the killing of 44 people during a wage-related strike by Lonmin employees in Marikana.
Source : Sapa /nsm/th/clh/gq
Date : 17 Apr 2013 14:22
A police report confirms that officers shot dead 34 striking mineworkers at Marikana, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Wednesday.
Dumisa Ntsebenza, for the families of the deceased, said the report showed that the police did not dispute shooting dead the miners, and that the argument was about the circumstances behind the killings.
According to the report, 30 of the miners died on the scene and four died in hospital, Ntsebenza said.
Earlier, national police commissioner Riah Phiyega said it had not been confirmed that police killed the miners.
"I understand that 34 miners were killed, but to say who killed them, I cannot comment on that."
Under cross-examination at the commission in Rustenburg, Phiyega asked that she not be asked unfair questions to which she had no answers.
She told the commission no one had been arrested or suspended following the deaths.
Ntsebenza questioned Phiyega about two affidavits she had handed in.
In one, she stated that she received advice from Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa to go to Marikana and get a first-hand account of the situation.
In the other, she said she advised Mthethwa that she would do so.
Ntsebenza said Phiyega had chosen the second statement as her final one because it was the "more comfortable one".
"The statement relieves both you and the minister from coming here to explain on which grounds the order was given," said Ntsebenza.
Phiyega maintained that this was an error which she and her lawyers had sought to correct at the beginning of the inquiry.
The commission is investigating the killing of 44 people during a wage-related strike by Lonmin employees in Marikana.
Source : Sapa /nsm/th/clh/gq
Date : 17 Apr 2013 14:22
So the TONS OF VIDEO FOOTAGE of police shooting is irrelevant?
The question isn't if the police killed them...it's if they were justified in shooting.
I think this Phiyega person was told to deny everything and doesn't have the intellect to do it properly. I bet if they asked her if her name was Phiyega she would say that is not in a position to confirm or deny it.
The question isn't if the police killed them...it's if they were justified in shooting.
I think this Phiyega person was told to deny everything and doesn't have the intellect to do it properly. I bet if they asked her if her name was Phiyega she would say that is not in a position to confirm or deny it.
Ask Andries Tatane's family about the relevance of video footage.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
No Internal Marikana Probe: Phiyega
The SA Police Service did not conduct any internal investigation following the Marikana shootings last year, the Farlam Commission heard on Thursday.
National police commissioner Riah Phiyega said the Saps believed preparations for the Farlam Commission of Inquiry would form part of their own investigations.
"Our interpretation was that our preparation for this commission would form part of our review and it would produce the same results [that we would have received had we done an internal investigation]," said Phiyega.
President Jacob Zuma announced on August 17, 2012 -- a day after 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead by police -- that a commission would be established.
Dumisa Ntsebeza, for the families of the deceased miners, questioned Phiyega on what part of Zuma's statement made her believe it was no longer necessary to conduct further investigations.
"Was the announcement sufficient enough for you to think you shouldn't conduct your own internal review?
"So you decided to collapse what would have been an internal investigation... because you thought this commission would form part of your investigation," asked Ntsebeza.
"Yes," said Phiyega.
"We interpreted it in that manner. Whether you accept that interpretation as right or wrong is [something else]," said Phiyega.
The commission, sitting in Rustenburg, is tasked with investigating the events that led to the killing of 44 people during the wage-related strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana in August last year.
Source : Sapa /nsm/fg/gq/jk
Date : 18 Apr 2013 11:20
The SA Police Service did not conduct any internal investigation following the Marikana shootings last year, the Farlam Commission heard on Thursday.
National police commissioner Riah Phiyega said the Saps believed preparations for the Farlam Commission of Inquiry would form part of their own investigations.
"Our interpretation was that our preparation for this commission would form part of our review and it would produce the same results [that we would have received had we done an internal investigation]," said Phiyega.
President Jacob Zuma announced on August 17, 2012 -- a day after 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead by police -- that a commission would be established.
Dumisa Ntsebeza, for the families of the deceased miners, questioned Phiyega on what part of Zuma's statement made her believe it was no longer necessary to conduct further investigations.
"Was the announcement sufficient enough for you to think you shouldn't conduct your own internal review?
"So you decided to collapse what would have been an internal investigation... because you thought this commission would form part of your investigation," asked Ntsebeza.
"Yes," said Phiyega.
"We interpreted it in that manner. Whether you accept that interpretation as right or wrong is [something else]," said Phiyega.
The commission, sitting in Rustenburg, is tasked with investigating the events that led to the killing of 44 people during the wage-related strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana in August last year.
Source : Sapa /nsm/fg/gq/jk
Date : 18 Apr 2013 11:20
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
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- 105,603
Cop Gives Details of Marikana Plan
Firing rubber bullets was meant to be the last resort to disperse striking workers under the police plan to deal with labour unrest in Marikana last year, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
This was the testimony of Maj-Gen Charl Annandale, who headed the police special tactical team during the unrest.
Police shot dead 34 striking miners in Marikana, North West, on August 16 while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near Lonmin's platinum mine.
The commission is holding public hearings in Rustenburg as part of its investigation into the circumstances surrounding these deaths and those of another 10 people in the week before the shooting.
"The way we intended it to unfold was that after the deployment of the barbed wire, a warning would have been given," Annandale told the commission.
"Time would have been given for the dispersal and choppers would have been airborne."
He said police expected most of the striking miners to disperse.
"Should there be people who failed to disperse, a second warning would have been issued," Annandale testified.
"A line with Nyala vehicles would have been formed. Water cannon would have been placed behind the Nyala."
He said a dispersal plan would then be put into effect against those who still refused to leave the hill.
"We would have started with the deployment of water cannon. Depending on their response, the plan would have advanced."
Annandale said police would not have been able to approach the protesting workers with shields and batons, as these would have offered little protection against sharp traditional weapons.
The next phase of the plan was to use stun grenades on uncooperative protesters.
"After 1.5 seconds, the stun grenade gives a double bang. Besides the noise, it causes disorientation," said Annandale. This would have been followed by the use of gas.
Annandale said there were two groups on the hill, and police expected resistance only from the smaller group of around 500 people.
He said the people in this group wore similar clothes and their leaders were disciplined.
"They never acted unless they had a command... they would sit together and stand together."
Police had anticipated that, at the third stage, the group would break up into smaller groups, making it easier to handle.
Source : Sapa /nsm/hdw/clh/jk
Date : 23 Apr 2013 12:08
Firing rubber bullets was meant to be the last resort to disperse striking workers under the police plan to deal with labour unrest in Marikana last year, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
This was the testimony of Maj-Gen Charl Annandale, who headed the police special tactical team during the unrest.
Police shot dead 34 striking miners in Marikana, North West, on August 16 while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near Lonmin's platinum mine.
The commission is holding public hearings in Rustenburg as part of its investigation into the circumstances surrounding these deaths and those of another 10 people in the week before the shooting.
"The way we intended it to unfold was that after the deployment of the barbed wire, a warning would have been given," Annandale told the commission.
"Time would have been given for the dispersal and choppers would have been airborne."
He said police expected most of the striking miners to disperse.
"Should there be people who failed to disperse, a second warning would have been issued," Annandale testified.
"A line with Nyala vehicles would have been formed. Water cannon would have been placed behind the Nyala."
He said a dispersal plan would then be put into effect against those who still refused to leave the hill.
"We would have started with the deployment of water cannon. Depending on their response, the plan would have advanced."
Annandale said police would not have been able to approach the protesting workers with shields and batons, as these would have offered little protection against sharp traditional weapons.
The next phase of the plan was to use stun grenades on uncooperative protesters.
"After 1.5 seconds, the stun grenade gives a double bang. Besides the noise, it causes disorientation," said Annandale. This would have been followed by the use of gas.
Annandale said there were two groups on the hill, and police expected resistance only from the smaller group of around 500 people.
He said the people in this group wore similar clothes and their leaders were disciplined.
"They never acted unless they had a command... they would sit together and stand together."
Police had anticipated that, at the third stage, the group would break up into smaller groups, making it easier to handle.
Source : Sapa /nsm/hdw/clh/jk
Date : 23 Apr 2013 12:08
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Protestors Threatened Cops
Protesting Marikana mineworkers threatened the police and told them to move their barbed wire and Nyala vehicles hours before police shot at them, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
The protesters asked: "What is this wire doing here? It must be removed and we are not going to ask again," Maj-Gen Charl Annandale told the commission.
He headed the police special tactical operations team during the unrest in Marikana in August.
Annandale said the police deployed the barbed wire as a defence method.
"The intention was to create a physical and... psychological barrier to show that this is a no-go area. It is a method that's been used to successfully protect assets. Traditionally, people move away from it when they see it."
Annandale said negotiators used loud hailers to try and tell the protesters why the barbed wire was there. The police then heeded the protesters' call and moved their vehicles and barbed wire further back.
He said the police could not be allowed to mingle with the protesters, as this would cause confusion if the need to use stun grenades on the crowd arose.
Annandale was delivering his evidence-in-chief at the hearings, chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, at the Rustenburg Civic Centre.
The commission is investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people -- 34 of whom the police shot dead, during wage-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana in August.
Annandale said union leaders told the police protesters would lay down their weapons at 9am on the morning of August 16.
He said police realised this might not happen when the protesters took their weapons with them to a hill near the mine that morning.
"They could have left their weapons at home," he said.
The commission continues.
Source : Sapa /nsm/tk/clh/th
Date : 23 Apr 2013 11:26
Protesting Marikana mineworkers threatened the police and told them to move their barbed wire and Nyala vehicles hours before police shot at them, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
The protesters asked: "What is this wire doing here? It must be removed and we are not going to ask again," Maj-Gen Charl Annandale told the commission.
He headed the police special tactical operations team during the unrest in Marikana in August.
Annandale said the police deployed the barbed wire as a defence method.
"The intention was to create a physical and... psychological barrier to show that this is a no-go area. It is a method that's been used to successfully protect assets. Traditionally, people move away from it when they see it."
Annandale said negotiators used loud hailers to try and tell the protesters why the barbed wire was there. The police then heeded the protesters' call and moved their vehicles and barbed wire further back.
He said the police could not be allowed to mingle with the protesters, as this would cause confusion if the need to use stun grenades on the crowd arose.
Annandale was delivering his evidence-in-chief at the hearings, chaired by retired judge Ian Farlam, at the Rustenburg Civic Centre.
The commission is investigating the circumstances surrounding the deaths of 44 people -- 34 of whom the police shot dead, during wage-related unrest at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana in August.
Annandale said union leaders told the police protesters would lay down their weapons at 9am on the morning of August 16.
He said police realised this might not happen when the protesters took their weapons with them to a hill near the mine that morning.
"They could have left their weapons at home," he said.
The commission continues.
Source : Sapa /nsm/tk/clh/th
Date : 23 Apr 2013 11:26
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 105,603
Cops Knew About Muti
Police officers knew a substance thought to be muti was given to striking Marikana mineworkers, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, questioned Maj-Gen Charl Annandale on whether they knew protesters believed the muti they had administered would make them invincible and invisible.
"They believed that the bullets would bounce off them. They had no fear and believed that the police's R-5's would have no effect on them," Farlam said.
"Did you take that into consideration when you drafted your [dispersal and disarming] plan?" he asked.
Annandale, who headed the police special tactical operations team during the unrest in Marikana, was giving his evidence-in-chief at the commission in Rustenburg.
He said they were aware rituals had been performed on the miners, but did not get information about the supposed effect of the substances.
A white Toyota bakkie laden with buckets had been driven up to the koppie where miners were gathered in the days prior to August 16, when police fired on the strikers.
A traditional healer was seen sprinkling the substance in the buckets on a group of naked men, said Annandale. Police took pictures of this from a helicopter.
The commission is investigating the deaths of 44 people during the wage-related unrest in Marikana last year. Police shot dead 34 mineworkers on August 16. Another 10 people were killed in the preceding week.
Source : Sapa /nsm/th/jk
Date : 23 Apr 2013 12:27
Police officers knew a substance thought to be muti was given to striking Marikana mineworkers, the Farlam Commission of Inquiry heard on Tuesday.
Commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, questioned Maj-Gen Charl Annandale on whether they knew protesters believed the muti they had administered would make them invincible and invisible.
"They believed that the bullets would bounce off them. They had no fear and believed that the police's R-5's would have no effect on them," Farlam said.
"Did you take that into consideration when you drafted your [dispersal and disarming] plan?" he asked.
Annandale, who headed the police special tactical operations team during the unrest in Marikana, was giving his evidence-in-chief at the commission in Rustenburg.
He said they were aware rituals had been performed on the miners, but did not get information about the supposed effect of the substances.
A white Toyota bakkie laden with buckets had been driven up to the koppie where miners were gathered in the days prior to August 16, when police fired on the strikers.
A traditional healer was seen sprinkling the substance in the buckets on a group of naked men, said Annandale. Police took pictures of this from a helicopter.
The commission is investigating the deaths of 44 people during the wage-related unrest in Marikana last year. Police shot dead 34 mineworkers on August 16. Another 10 people were killed in the preceding week.
Source : Sapa /nsm/th/jk
Date : 23 Apr 2013 12:27