Marikana Shootings Farlam Commission Thread

OrbitalDawn

Ulysses Everett McGill
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
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47,031
And I would believe every word he said, even under "oath".........................................

If he lied, or tried to deceive people, then that would form part of the inquiry and indict him further. Evidence could contradict what he said, or maybe he would actually tell the truth. No we'll never know, either way.
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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Mar 17, 2005
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105,603
No Clarity on Punishment for Marikana Cops

It is unclear if policemen found guilty of ignoring official crowd-control guidelines in Marikana would lose their jobs, the Farlam commission of inquiry heard on Friday.

Queried on the matter, national police commissioner Riah Phiyega would only say that "an appropriate penalty will be taken".

She was testifying at the commission's public hearings in Rustenburg into the August 16, 2012, police shootings in which 34 striking miners died at Marikana.

Dali Mpofu, for injured and arrested Marikana miners, asked Phiyega whether "heads would roll" if officers of any hierarchy were found to have acted unlawfully.

Phiyega dismissed the term "rolling heads" and said: "Relevant remedial... and an appropriate penalty will be taken."

The commission wrapped up for the week and is due to continue on April 16 when Mpofu is expected to continue with his cross-examination of Phiyega.

The proceedings ended early on Friday as some of the key people in the commission had to be excused.

The chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, said a possible relocation of the commission from Rustenburg to Johannesburg or Pretoria would be first on the agenda when the commission resumed.

George Bizos SC, for the Legal Resources Centre and the Bench Marks Foundation, accused Phiyega earlier in the week of being an unhelpful witness who avoided taking accountability.

He accused her of protecting the police who shot dead striking mineworkers in the wage-related strike.

Schalk Burger SC, for Lonmin, focused on discrepancies in two of Phiyega's sworn affidavits.

After numerous questions on the differences, Phiyega admitted that she had not read the statement she had taken an oath to.

She said the final version of her affidavit was incorrect and she thought changes she had ordered to be made had been done.

The documents also differed in accounts of Phiyega's communication with Police Minister Nathi Mthethwa on the incident.

On Thursday, Phiyega declined to voice an opinion on how the police plan to contain the Marikana situation had failed.

She said she would leave it to the people who were there to give comment.

Mpofu told her this showed she did not have the details.

On Friday, he criticised police for removing and possibly incorrectly replacing weapons on the dead miners.

While Phiyega submitted that the weapons were moved to ensure the security of medical personnel, Mpofu said the arms were removed for reasons other than the paramedics' safety.

He also accused police of disrespecting the miners by removing and replacing the weapons.


Source : Sapa /nsm/hdw/ks/jk
Date : 05 Apr 2013 14:21
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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Police Failed to Respect the Dead: Mpofu

Police officers showed disrespect for the bodies of the 34 miners shot dead at Marikana last year, the Farlam Commission heard on Friday.

Advocate Dali Mpofu, for the arrested and injured Marikana miners, said the actions of police officers who claimed to have removed and later replaced weapons from the dead miners, showed cultural disrespect.

He said families of the deceased miners were left with negative images, some of which might have been false, of their loved ones.

National police commissioner Riah Phiyega, who is under cross-examination by Mpofu at the commission's hearings in Rustenburg, refused to comment on that aspect.

"That is an emotion-laden question... Let's stick to the facts," she said.

Phiyega said police had removed the weapons because paramedics needed to access the scene to assist the wounded.

They needed to ensure the scene was safe for the paramedics.

A total of 34 miners were shot dead by police during strike-related unrest on August 16, 2012, at Lonmin Platinum's Marikana operations.

Pictures of some of the miners killed were shown to the commission earlier in the morning.

Before the pictures were shown, retired judge Ian Farlam requested that relatives and people who might be distressed by seeing the pictures temporarily excuse themselves from the auditorium.

In some pictures taken of the scene on the day, some miners were seen without weapons. Pictures of the same miners, taken later in the evening, showed the earlier unarmed miners now in possession of weapons.

A statement made by a warrant officer who was on the scene was read to the commission.

The officer from the canine unit said he had removed the weapons earlier and was later instructed by another man, whom he assumed was an officer, to replace the weapons.

"This warrant officer took instructions from a privately dressed man whom he assumed was a police officer. He had no idea that when he took them away in the first place that he'd be ordered to put them back [several] hours later," said Mpofu.

The warrant officer said he had tried to replace the weapons more-or-less in the same positions he thought they could have been.

He said there might have been mistakes in the accuracy of the replaced weapons.

Phiyega said the police's main concern at the time was the safety of the paramedics.

"The spirit of doing that was saving a life," said Phiyega.

The commission should be aware that not all police detectives wore uniform and the warrant officer who carried out the instructions obviously sensed authority from this non-uniformed man.

Mpofu said he would submit that the arms were removed for reasons other than the paramedics' safety.

According to some witness statements and video evidence, the medics had not yet arrived when the arms were removed, he said.

In the absence of a plausible explanation, he would submit that placing the weapons was possibly an after-thought.

Phiyega said she accepted the report and the reasons provided for police removing and replacing the weapons.

Mpofu criticised her, saying: "A reasonable, rational commissioner like yourself presented with this kind of information should not have accepted this," said Mpofu.

"You shouldn't have accepted this wishy-washy report..."

He said the explanation depended greatly on the credibility of the people questioned.

Mpofu said it showed flaws in the way Phiyega conducted her duties.

The cross-examination continues.


Source : Sapa /nsm/jje/jk
Date : 05 Apr 2013 13:16
 

daveza

Honorary Master
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Apr 5, 2004
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47,671
policemen found guilty of ignoring official crowd-control guidelines

Has this even been established ?

Police officers showed disrespect for the bodies of the 34 miners shot dead

Any mention of the disrespect shown to the two security members whose bodies were hacked to pieces ?
 

marine1

Honorary Master
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Sep 4, 2006
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49,495
What a circus this has become
Guess the innocent cops and security guards get no mention.
 

killadoob

Honorary Master
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Jan 30, 2004
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Has this even been established ?



Any mention of the disrespect shown to the two security members whose bodies were hacked to pieces ?

Yea i am wondering why people who can burn two security guards and kill a cop should be looking for justice.

Justice was served!!!!!!! massacre of those sick people.
 

ToxicBunny

Oi! Leave me out of this...
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Apr 8, 2006
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113,505
This bloody Farlam Commission is starting to get irritating, and Dali Mpofu needs a bloody good PK in my opinion.
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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Not Confirmed that Cops Shot Miners: Phiyega

It is unconfirmed that police officers shot dead 34 striking mineworkers in Marikana on August 16 last year, the Farlam Commission heard on Wednesday.

"I cannot say those 34 people were killed by the police... and to say who was shot by whom. I am not [in] a position to say," said national police commissioner Riah Phiyega.

Phiyega, who was under cross-examination at the commission's hearings in Rustenburg, requested that she not be asked questions she could not answer.

Dumisa Ntsebeza, for the families of the deceased miners, was questioning her.

A family member of one of the dead miners broke down and cried. She was removed from the auditorium.

Ntsebeza said he was trying to establish whether there was any consistency in the way Phiyega performed her duties.

He questioned her on why she had ordered the suspension of the Daveyton police officials implicated in the death of taxi driver Mido Macia.

Macia was dragged behind a police van in February. A video clip depicting the incident went viral.

Macia was later found dead in the cells of the local police station.

"Sufficient evidence was at my disposal [to warrant a suspension]," said Phiyega.

She told the commission that none of the police officers who were present during the fatal shooting of the 34 striking mineworkers had been suspended.

"We as the SA Police Service (Saps) have not charged anyone," said Phiyega.

Relatives of the mineworkers gasped at her statement.

Commission chairman retired judge Ian Farlam gave them a stern warning to stop disrupting proceedings with audible comments, or be removed.

Phiyega told the commission that if any charge were to be laid against police, it would come as an instruction from the Independent Police Investigative Directorate.

Earlier, Ntsebeza questioned Phiyega on whether she had done any courses linked to police management and administration.

Phiyega, who has qualifications in business administration and social work, told him that her qualifications allowed her to manage any department, whether it be private or public.

"My skills are portable," she said.

The commission is investigating the incidents that led to the deaths of 44 people during a wage-related strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana in August last year.


Source : Sapa /nsm/hdw/jk/rod
Date : 17 Apr 2013 12:44
 

LazyLion

King of de Jungle
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Messages
105,603
Cops don't kill people, bullets kill people. :rolleyes:


No wait....

The cops didn't kill them, you and I killed them, we are all responsible.


No wait...

It was apartheid that killed them!

:wtf: :erm:
 

porchrat

Honorary Master
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Sep 11, 2008
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34,278
Really??????

Where did the bullets that killed them come from if not from the cops?!? :wtf:
 

Creag

The Boar's Rock
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May 19, 2009
Messages
43,527
And so the circus that is called the Farlam Commission continues. To think it was initially put down to conclude in January 2013 makes further mockery of this circus.

So not only is this thing that is likely to be dragged into the next decade, but it is costing us money for every day it is dragged on. Add insult to our injury is the strong probability of civil suits against the police for their actions. Oh wait... for Apartheid's actions :erm:

Cops don't kill people, bullets kill people. :rolleyes:


No wait....

The cops didn't kill them, you and I killed them, we are all responsible.


No wait...

It was apartheid that killed them!

:wtf: :erm:

Yup, it was Apartheid. Everything else is blamed on Apartheid, so why make an exception here :rolleyes:

From the ammunitions manufacturer?

Yeah, if we can somehow deflect the blame for Apartheid, maybe they can be sued and called to the commission too?

Haven't ballistics proven that all gunfire came from the front?

The front of the guns manufactured by the ammunitions manfacturers.
 
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