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Marikana Shootings Farlam Commission Thread
lol
You forgot to mention that 34 "armed thugs" got killed, some under suspicious circumstances. I guess this is a small and irrelevant detail for you.
Nerfherder
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The families should go to jail for aiding the criminals
eye_suc
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Also, I have this hunch: if the armed thugs who got shot would rather have stayed at home, they might have seen another day. I might be wrong though.There is no reason to put armed thugs in quotation marks - they were armed and they were thugs spoiling for a fight.
If I had to shake a panga at my boss for more money I would be out of a job immediately. No special treatment for thugs. Their families should be sued for the cops who were slaughtered, who were just doing THEIR jobs.
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Pitty our police force is so useless these days and cant do a proper job. A better trained force and it could have been 340 "armed thugs" less.
Brilliant. True.
grok
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Sorry, correction on no 2: storm a wall of armed police branding & licking spear and panges
Still no sympathy for savages acting like the name says.
gregmcc
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Its the African way!
daveza
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I don't even know why the relatives are involved in this commission - all that matters is whether the police acted in accordance with protocol.
The relatives were not there, saw nothing and apparently did nothing to stop them leaving home armed to the teeth.
These thugs were given multiple opportunities to lay down their weapons and took the decision not to.
The result is of their own making.
The relatives were not there, saw nothing and apparently did nothing to stop them leaving home armed to the teeth.
These thugs were given multiple opportunities to lay down their weapons and took the decision not to.
The result is of their own making.
LazyLion
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Miner Quizzed over Marikana Weapons
A mineworker who was among protesters at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana on August 16 was questioned on Friday about the weapons wielded by the strikers.
Advocate Vuyani Ngalwana, representing the police, cross-examined Mzoxolo Magidiwana, 24, about the protesters' weapons, including guns, recorded on video.
"You were asked yesterday [on Thursday] and you testified that most of the people in your group were carrying sticks. Do you remember? You were asked whether you had seen anyone carrying a gun and you said 'No'," said Ngalwana.
Magidiwana confirmed.
Ngalwana displayed a series of photographs taken on August 16 showing the protesters. He asked Magidiwana to name the weapons held by protesters around him in the pictures.
Ngalwana asked Magidiwana: "That person immediately behind you, what is he holding?"
Magidiwana said: "I can see a stick protruding. On the other (hand of the protester) it's not clear whether it was a twig or a branch from the trees."
Ngalwana said Magidiwana would not be in a position to dispute if another witness suggested the protester was wielding a dangerous weapon.
Magidiwana agreed, saying the image was not clear.
Ngalwana continued: "The other person seen in the picture, three persons from you, can you see what that person is pointing? It is a firearm?" he asked.
Magidiwana said, again the picture was not clear, but it "seemed like a firearm" in the hands of the protester. Ngalwana then played a video "to uncloud" Magidiwana's vision.
The short video, captured by a broadcaster, depicted the man behind Magidiwana shooting at police officers with a handgun. Many protesters were fleeing past him as he struggled to take aim at the officers.
In the video, police also fired a volley of bullets at the protesters.
Ngalwana then confronted Magidiwana: "You do not dispute that this person shooting at police was part of your group. So when you said to the commission you didn't see anyone holding a gun, that wasn't correct."
Magidiwana said: "Sir, I had passed that person (holding the gun). The images were captured at the time when police were shooting at us and he was shooting back at that stage.
"I did not see him (on August 16); I have just seen the event now in the video. On that day, I was fleeing," he said.
Chairman of the three-member commission, retired judge Ian Farlam, adjourned the public hearing as Magidiwana, who was on crutches, showed signs of discomfort.
Magidiwana previously told the commission he was repeatedly shot and beaten by police on August 16. He said police approached him, asking him where he had put the firearm.
Police have alleged that Magidiwana was shot in an attempt to disarm him. He was allegedly found with a Z88 pistol bearing the SA Police Service emblem.
Police said he was charged with illegal possession of a firearm and ammunition. He was arrested, but could not be detained because of the severity of his wounds.
Magidiwana was hospitalised at various institutions, under police guard.
He was charged as accused number 273 of the protesting mineworkers.
A policeman has testified that Magidiwana conceded being in possession of the police firearm.
Another police officer submitted that he saw Magidiwana shoot at a Nyala (police armoured vehicle).
The 24-year-old has dismissed the police allegations as "nonsense".
The hearing continues on Monday.
Source : Sapa /jm/fg/ks/jk
Date : 01 Mar 2013 14:32
A mineworker who was among protesters at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana on August 16 was questioned on Friday about the weapons wielded by the strikers.
Advocate Vuyani Ngalwana, representing the police, cross-examined Mzoxolo Magidiwana, 24, about the protesters' weapons, including guns, recorded on video.
"You were asked yesterday [on Thursday] and you testified that most of the people in your group were carrying sticks. Do you remember? You were asked whether you had seen anyone carrying a gun and you said 'No'," said Ngalwana.
Magidiwana confirmed.
Ngalwana displayed a series of photographs taken on August 16 showing the protesters. He asked Magidiwana to name the weapons held by protesters around him in the pictures.
Ngalwana asked Magidiwana: "That person immediately behind you, what is he holding?"
Magidiwana said: "I can see a stick protruding. On the other (hand of the protester) it's not clear whether it was a twig or a branch from the trees."
Ngalwana said Magidiwana would not be in a position to dispute if another witness suggested the protester was wielding a dangerous weapon.
Magidiwana agreed, saying the image was not clear.
Ngalwana continued: "The other person seen in the picture, three persons from you, can you see what that person is pointing? It is a firearm?" he asked.
Magidiwana said, again the picture was not clear, but it "seemed like a firearm" in the hands of the protester. Ngalwana then played a video "to uncloud" Magidiwana's vision.
The short video, captured by a broadcaster, depicted the man behind Magidiwana shooting at police officers with a handgun. Many protesters were fleeing past him as he struggled to take aim at the officers.
In the video, police also fired a volley of bullets at the protesters.
Ngalwana then confronted Magidiwana: "You do not dispute that this person shooting at police was part of your group. So when you said to the commission you didn't see anyone holding a gun, that wasn't correct."
Magidiwana said: "Sir, I had passed that person (holding the gun). The images were captured at the time when police were shooting at us and he was shooting back at that stage.
"I did not see him (on August 16); I have just seen the event now in the video. On that day, I was fleeing," he said.
Chairman of the three-member commission, retired judge Ian Farlam, adjourned the public hearing as Magidiwana, who was on crutches, showed signs of discomfort.
Magidiwana previously told the commission he was repeatedly shot and beaten by police on August 16. He said police approached him, asking him where he had put the firearm.
Police have alleged that Magidiwana was shot in an attempt to disarm him. He was allegedly found with a Z88 pistol bearing the SA Police Service emblem.
Police said he was charged with illegal possession of a firearm and ammunition. He was arrested, but could not be detained because of the severity of his wounds.
Magidiwana was hospitalised at various institutions, under police guard.
He was charged as accused number 273 of the protesting mineworkers.
A policeman has testified that Magidiwana conceded being in possession of the police firearm.
Another police officer submitted that he saw Magidiwana shoot at a Nyala (police armoured vehicle).
The 24-year-old has dismissed the police allegations as "nonsense".
The hearing continues on Monday.
Source : Sapa /jm/fg/ks/jk
Date : 01 Mar 2013 14:32
LazyLion
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'Lonmin should have Acted Sooner': Testimony
Lonmin platinum mine could have prevented the August 16 Marikana shooting had it acted sooner, a miner told the Farlam Commission of Inquiry on Tuesday.
"If your child is hungry and wants food, you take cognisance that the child is hungry. You don't put the dogs on the child for being hungry," miner Mzoxolo Magidiwana said in Rustenburg, through an interpreter.
He told the commission that if Lonmin had told striking mineworkers how much it could afford to pay them, the police would not have shot at strikers on August 16 last year.
Commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, asked for clarity on what Magidiwana meant when he said the employer should have acted sooner.
He replied that action should have been taken before workers decided to go to the hill near Lonmin's Marikana mine on August 11.
Magidiwana was being cross-examined by Terry Motau SC, for Lonmin.
He said Lonmin did not mention that it could not pay mineworkers the R12,500 monthly wage they were demanding.
Motau told the commission Lonmin management had already responded to the demand by workers, despite Magidiwana claiming he had heard nothing.
The miner said Lonmin should have talked to strikers.
Motau responded: "Lonmin knew that the 3000 strikers were armed with dangerous weapons.... Is it not unreasonable to expect Lonmin to go and negotiate on the koppie [hill] under those conditions?"
Magidiwana said Lonmin management should have negotiated with workers from the beginning of their industrial action.
They had gone on strike demanding R12,500 a month, but actually wanted "no less than R10,000 after deductions".
"I would have been happy to receive R20,000, but the strike was, according to me, to receive something in excess of R10,000."
Asked about the difference in the salaries of rock drill operators, who initially went on strike, and other mineworkers who later joined, Magidiwana said they earned the same amounts.
He said underground work was difficult and warranted the increase.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people during an unprotected strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana. On August 16, 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead and 78 were injured when the police opened fire while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near the mine.
Ten people, including two police officers and two security guards, were killed near the mine in the preceding week.
On Tuesday morning, Karel Tip SC, for the National Union of Mineworkers, completed his cross-examination of Magidiwana.
The hearings continue.
Source : Sapa /dm/hdw/th/clh
Date : 12 Mar 2013 14:25
Lonmin platinum mine could have prevented the August 16 Marikana shooting had it acted sooner, a miner told the Farlam Commission of Inquiry on Tuesday.
"If your child is hungry and wants food, you take cognisance that the child is hungry. You don't put the dogs on the child for being hungry," miner Mzoxolo Magidiwana said in Rustenburg, through an interpreter.
He told the commission that if Lonmin had told striking mineworkers how much it could afford to pay them, the police would not have shot at strikers on August 16 last year.
Commission chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, asked for clarity on what Magidiwana meant when he said the employer should have acted sooner.
He replied that action should have been taken before workers decided to go to the hill near Lonmin's Marikana mine on August 11.
Magidiwana was being cross-examined by Terry Motau SC, for Lonmin.
He said Lonmin did not mention that it could not pay mineworkers the R12,500 monthly wage they were demanding.
Motau told the commission Lonmin management had already responded to the demand by workers, despite Magidiwana claiming he had heard nothing.
The miner said Lonmin should have talked to strikers.
Motau responded: "Lonmin knew that the 3000 strikers were armed with dangerous weapons.... Is it not unreasonable to expect Lonmin to go and negotiate on the koppie [hill] under those conditions?"
Magidiwana said Lonmin management should have negotiated with workers from the beginning of their industrial action.
They had gone on strike demanding R12,500 a month, but actually wanted "no less than R10,000 after deductions".
"I would have been happy to receive R20,000, but the strike was, according to me, to receive something in excess of R10,000."
Asked about the difference in the salaries of rock drill operators, who initially went on strike, and other mineworkers who later joined, Magidiwana said they earned the same amounts.
He said underground work was difficult and warranted the increase.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people during an unprotected strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana. On August 16, 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead and 78 were injured when the police opened fire while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near the mine.
Ten people, including two police officers and two security guards, were killed near the mine in the preceding week.
On Tuesday morning, Karel Tip SC, for the National Union of Mineworkers, completed his cross-examination of Magidiwana.
The hearings continue.
Source : Sapa /dm/hdw/th/clh
Date : 12 Mar 2013 14:25
DJ...
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Actually they did - to the union bosses. Numerous times. As did the industry bodies.
But fsck it - Lonmin directors should have used their crystal ball and collective psychic powers instead?
And wages are not dependent on what you can afford. The vast majority of unionised members of this society seem to be under the impression that workers should be paid whatever the company can afford! That is not how it works in the real world...
Refraction
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"Ten people, including two police officers and two security guards, were killed near the mine in the preceding week." and then you expect anyone to go and sit on the koppie and negotiate WTF man....
friedpiggy
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Lonmin should not have given them an increase at all. All they achieved by giving in to the demands was to let the workers know that violence gets them stuff.
LazyLion
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The Farlam Commission of Inquiry made an appeal to media houses on Wednesday to hand over any outstanding footage of the August 16 shooting at Marikana, North West.
"If there is anything that we haven't been shown, please take steps to give it to the evidence leaders," the commission's chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, said in Rustenburg.
"It is vitally important that we do our utmost best to get to the truth."
Farlam said it was important that footage of the August 16 shooting not be withheld, and that the commission's findings would go down in history.
He said material should not be withheld to exonerate or implicate people.
Advocate Dali Mpofu, for the injured and arrested miners, told the commission he "stumbled upon footage" which had not been presented to the commission.
"I am aware that there is an ethical implication," he said.
"I would like to make a special appeal to the SABC... to release material."
Mpofu was speaking ahead of his re-examination of Lonmin miner Mzoxolo Magidiwana, who was wounded during the shooting. Magidiwana told the commission on Monday that two journalists were present when police assaulted him.
On Tuesday, he recognised one of the journalists in a picture shown to the commission. On Wednesday, Mpofu said his team had identified two journalists who fit the description Magidiwana gave, and he would provide the names to the commission.
"I am meeting with the one on Saturday," he said.
Mpofu said he had found footage which had not been shown to the commission before, and indicated he would use it during his re-examination.
"The first clip is quite short and collateral, but the main footage will require a warning," he said.
Farlam said it was important to warn the commission before footage was played of people being shot or assaulted, because of the sensitivity of the matter, and because relatives of the miners were present at the hearings, being held in the Rustenburg civic centre.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people during an unprotected strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana.
On August 16, 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead and 78 injured when the police opened fire while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near the mine. Ten people, including two police officers and two security guards, were killed near the mine in the preceding week.
During his re-examination Magidiwana, 23, started crying when he spoke about the advice and warnings he received from his father to not join the strike, but to return home to the Eastern Cape.
The commission adjourned to allow him to compose himself.
Before the short adjournment, Magidiwana apologised to President Jacob Zuma for saying on Tuesday that every man, including the president, carried an assegai or stick when leaving his house.
Police commissioner Riah Phiyega is expected to testify before the commission after the re-examination.
Source : Sapa /dm/gq/clh/th
Date : 13 Mar 2013 11:03
"If there is anything that we haven't been shown, please take steps to give it to the evidence leaders," the commission's chairman, retired judge Ian Farlam, said in Rustenburg.
"It is vitally important that we do our utmost best to get to the truth."
Farlam said it was important that footage of the August 16 shooting not be withheld, and that the commission's findings would go down in history.
He said material should not be withheld to exonerate or implicate people.
Advocate Dali Mpofu, for the injured and arrested miners, told the commission he "stumbled upon footage" which had not been presented to the commission.
"I am aware that there is an ethical implication," he said.
"I would like to make a special appeal to the SABC... to release material."
Mpofu was speaking ahead of his re-examination of Lonmin miner Mzoxolo Magidiwana, who was wounded during the shooting. Magidiwana told the commission on Monday that two journalists were present when police assaulted him.
On Tuesday, he recognised one of the journalists in a picture shown to the commission. On Wednesday, Mpofu said his team had identified two journalists who fit the description Magidiwana gave, and he would provide the names to the commission.
"I am meeting with the one on Saturday," he said.
Mpofu said he had found footage which had not been shown to the commission before, and indicated he would use it during his re-examination.
"The first clip is quite short and collateral, but the main footage will require a warning," he said.
Farlam said it was important to warn the commission before footage was played of people being shot or assaulted, because of the sensitivity of the matter, and because relatives of the miners were present at the hearings, being held in the Rustenburg civic centre.
The commission is probing the deaths of 44 people during an unprotected strike at Lonmin's platinum mine in Marikana.
On August 16, 34 striking mineworkers were shot dead and 78 injured when the police opened fire while trying to disperse a group gathered on a hill near the mine. Ten people, including two police officers and two security guards, were killed near the mine in the preceding week.
During his re-examination Magidiwana, 23, started crying when he spoke about the advice and warnings he received from his father to not join the strike, but to return home to the Eastern Cape.
The commission adjourned to allow him to compose himself.
Before the short adjournment, Magidiwana apologised to President Jacob Zuma for saying on Tuesday that every man, including the president, carried an assegai or stick when leaving his house.
Police commissioner Riah Phiyega is expected to testify before the commission after the re-examination.
Source : Sapa /dm/gq/clh/th
Date : 13 Mar 2013 11:03