Mass stabbing on UK train

[Mephisto_Helix]

So with someone saying rather carry a bat on the train for if someone starts being stabby instead of gun use, my reply stands. No one was talking about strolling through a park ..... Didn't mention ownership being illegal at all.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

It doesn’t need to be Hollywood, Snekkie, a person can kill you with a single head strike of a heavy stick, they can blind you with a poke into the eye with an umbrella. Both can be done in a crowded environment where use of a gun would likely endanger bystanders.

You are missing the point, an average Joe or Jane, armed with a umbrella, baseball bat, walking stick is not going to be able to defend themselves against a deranged attacker with a knife.

A person doesn't have to be stabbed multiple times to succumb to their injuries, there's no real way of blocking a knife attack, it doesn't have to be a 12 inch combat knife, how many ordinary citizens walk around with a tourniquet or trauma kit ?

Your notion of having an umbrella, walking stick, baseball bat etc with you will somehow save, prevent or stop the attack is ludicrous in this context. I will say it again you'll do absolutely föķķöĺ in that specific scenario with a deranged attacker with a knife. The best chance you have in this context is hopefully you're not in close proximity of the attacker, if the attack begins, create as much distance as quickly as possible, evade and escape, basically get as far away as possible as fast as possible.

If you have some free time go do some real research on real knife attacks, if you have the stomach for it.

FYI, there's a YouTube channel called Active Self Protection, that's a start.
I'm sorry to say a deranged psychos with nothing to lose is not going to be stopped with an eye poke, or a heavy blow.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

It’s only in the movies the hero gets that perfect shot in a crowded place. Don’t rely on Hollywood for what will happen when people panic.

But you are relying on movies and Hollywood with your notion of stopping a deranged psycho wielding a knife in this context, by poking them in the eye, or whacking them with a blunt object or striking them in the head.
We are not talking about a homeless nyaope boy who weighs 30 kilograms on a good day and hasn't had a full meal in a week's time armed with a TEMU steak knife wrapped with electrical tape.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

The ignorance (or lack of comprehension) is with you here.

No Dave just accept that you are wrong on this one unfortunately.

Did you actually read my post? You’ll notice I specifically made the point of not carrying it on its own.

So you'll be carrying a baseball bat / cricket bat in a large bag everywhere you go?

What his trying to spell out for you is that you'll get into trouble if you are seen in a public setting with a baseball / cricket bat, especially in this context, hence my comment, you'll need to have it in some sort of large bag at all times, to conceal it from public view.

Yep, wandering around with a cricket bat over your shoulder could well get you having a chat.

You carry the item for a legal reason (I’m experiencing some déjà vu here, I could swear I just said this earlier this evening) and then it is to hand if required at the time.

Again, hypothetically let's say you decide to carry the baseball / cricket bat, firstly you'll have to have it in a large bag not to attract attention to yourself, concealing it from view, now if you are in close proximity to the knife attacker which you wouldn't know because they don't wear signs unfortunately, you'll be füćķëđ before you'll even get a chance to get that bat out the bag if the deranged psycho decides to just start stabbing everyone in their proximity.

 

[Dave]

If you have some free time go do some real research on real knife attacks, if you have the stomach for it.

Sweetie, I use to instruct on this, have a look at the Tueller Drill and then still be confident in drawing a firearm while seated (or even standing) in a busy/crowded area with a knife man intent on attacking.

You aren’t normally the GV wannabe Rambo type, you’re getting a little excited here….

So you'll be carrying a baseball bat / cricket bat in a large bag everywhere you go?

Where did I say that? The question posed was what could a person carry and use in a self defence situation.
I gave some suggestions as to what could be carried in the single hypothetical scenario (travelling on a train).

now if you are in close proximity to the knife attacker which you wouldn't know because they don't wear signs unfortunately, you'll be füćķëđ before you'll even get a chance to get that bat out the bag

Odds are pretty good that as a civvy in a relaxed state the same would be true for you to draw your firearm in time as well.

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Exactly, was just stating that you'd have to carry your gear with you at all times on the train because carrying just a bat in case someone gets stabby is not allowed Its not the same as being able to have a brolly or walking stick in your hand.

 

[Dave]

Exactly, was just stating that you'd have to carry your gear with you at all times on the train because carrying just a bat in case someone gets stabby is not allowed Its not the same as being able to have a brolly or walking stick in your hand.

Those were all suggestions, the walking stick or umbrella would be more sensible (that’s why they were first and second on the list), but it wouldn’t be illegal if you had a bat and ball in a bag.

You can buy a specially toughened umbrella designed for the purpose.

Security Umbrella “City-Safe” (knobhandle) – Emergency Protection

emergencyprotection.co.uk

That’s all I said, go back and read it again.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

Sweetie, I use to instruct on this, have a look at the Tueller Drill and then still be confident in drawing a firearm while seated (or even standing) in a busy/crowded area with a knife man intent on attacking.

You aren’t normally the GV wannabe Rambo type, you’re getting a little excited here….

Dave personal insults or name calling is not my kink.

But please do quote any of posts whereby I alluded to that a firearm should be used in this context or anything about a firearm in this context?

Unlike you, I'm aware of the absurd laws regarding any self-defence gear or equipment in the UK, that's the exact reason why I DID NOT bring a firearm into the context of this discussion that is the point @Mephisto_Helix was trying to get across to you about your baseball/ cricket bat, but clearly you just went off the rails.

Where did I say that? The question posed was what could a person carry and use in a self defence situation.
I gave some suggestions as to what could be carried in the single hypothetical scenario (travelling on a train).

It was a question Dave, would a daily commuter be travelling with a large bag everyday with a baseball/ cricket bat with them, again the point @Mephisto_Helix was trying to make with the laws around brandishing weapons in a public space in this context.

Odds are pretty good that as a civvy in a relaxed state the same would be true for you to draw your firearm in time as well.

Dave for the second time you are accusing me of inserting a firearm into this context, I have NOT, I don't go off the rails, I stay within the context of the specific scenario, taking in consideration this is a UK incident, so no a firearm is invalid here.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

Those were all suggestions, the walking stick or umbrella would be more sensible (that’s why they were first and second on the list), but it wouldn’t be illegal if you had a bat and ball in a bag.

You can buy a specially toughened umbrella designed for the purpose.

Security Umbrella “City-Safe” (knobhandle) – Emergency Protection

emergencyprotection.co.uk

That’s all I said, go back and read it again.

Fair enough, but I stand by my point you'll still do föƙƙõĺ even with your reinforced security umbrella, that's the point I'm trying to get across.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

So woman are screwed in this scenario? Tazer or mace would come in handy for them. Why is it illegal?

This is not illegal.

 

[wingnut771]

This is not illegal.
View attachment 1861701

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a reason why pepper spray is illegal.

 

[RedViking]

Everytime I read the title of this thread I am thinking this is some sort of Catholic Event.

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Yeah, I'm still waiting for a reason why pepper spray is illegal.

Law works in mysterious ways ?

You mean the reasoning behind it ? I suppose you will have to look up entire history about Firearms Act 1968. But even then I don't think you will be satisfied about "reasoning". Just my guess.

 

[Mariner]

It doesn’t need to be Hollywood, Snekkie, a person can kill you with a single head strike of a heavy stick, they can blind you with a poke into the eye with an umbrella. Both can be done in a crowded environment where use of a gun would likely endanger bystanders.

As would striking with a heavy stick or stabbing with a pointed object. Hollow points stop in the intended body at close range.

Please take your trolling elsewhere, Cosmic.

Dankie.

I'm not who you think I am. And asking a question is not considered trolling. Did my question make you uncomfortable? A bit too close to home?

I guarantee you they won’t, when people panic they scatter like rats when the light is turned on.

What would you call this then:

I guarantee you, everybody will be moving rather rapidly in the general direction of away from a knifeman

It’s only in the movies the hero gets that perfect shot in a crowded place.

Nope, it happens in real life too:

Joost's Brother Shoots Robbers to Keep Church Congregation Safe in Centurion

The brother of the late legendary South African scrum half Joost van der Westhuizen is making headlines himself, after shooting dead two armed robbers who

www.sapeople.com

11 More Cases in Which Responsible Gun Owners Saved Lives

In recent weeks, several instances involving the reckless use of firearms dominated national headlines. In one case, a Georgia man tragically lost his life when armed civilians crossed the line between defensive necessity and vigilantism. But such headlines tell only one side of the story...

www.heritage.org

It never fails. A split-second after a mass shooting occurs, grandstanders and ideologues issue statements demanding new gun controls—even if the laws already on the books failed or the laws they want would have made no difference. Case in point: the tragic incidents in Dayton, Ohio, and El Paso, Texas, in early August 2019.

The message is clear: Guns cause violence. Tax them, take them, ban them, regulate them. Do something, maybe anything! Such knee-jerk, emotional responses are dangerous, writes Charles W. Cooke in National Review, “for when a nation sets up a direct pipeline between its emotions and its laws, it does not keep its liberty for long.”

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...

fee.org

https://ammo.com/research/defensive-gun-use-statistics

Need more? These incidents, unlike a killing, go unreported and feed into the mass hysteria against firearms. More lives are saved using firearms than are illegally taken using firearms. Prove me wrong.

 

[Mariner]

I’d presume your “training” comes from watching movies, I can guarantee you that the likelihood is that I have had a great deal more training on more weapon types than you could dream of.

Nope. I was a member of the armed forces. Do you have any firearm training to validate your anti firearm stance?

 

[Mariner]

Yep, wandering around with a cricket bat over your shoulder could well get you having a chat.

Carrying a bat, an umbrella on a clear night, a screwdriver or a hammer can get you arrested in the UK. If UK cops looked in my car's toolbox, I could be put away for quite a long time if I couldn't prove I know how to work on a vehicle.

 

[wingnut771]

Carrying a bat, an umbrella on a clear night, a screwdriver or a hammer can get you arrested in the UK. If UK cops looked in my car's toolbox, I could be put away for quite a long time if I couldn't prove I know how to work on a vehicle.

Carrying pepper spray will get you arrested. Still waiting for an answer as to why this is illegal. Probably part of their stupid health and safety nanny state rules.

 

[Mariner]

What his trying to spell out for you is that you'll get into trouble if you are seen in a public setting with a baseball / cricket bat, especially in this context, hence my comment, you'll need to have it in some sort of large bag at all times, to conceal it from public view.

It appears that the UK version of self-defence concealed carry is a cricket or baseball bat in a bag rather than a firearm in a holster. How many people are seen carrying bat shaped bags wherever they go in the UK?

 

[Mariner]

Sweetie, I use to instruct on this, have a look at the Tueller Drill and then still be confident in drawing a firearm while seated (or even standing) in a busy/crowded area with a knife man intent on attacking.

You aren’t normally the GV wannabe Rambo type, you’re getting a little excited here….

Back to your bullying tactics again, I see. An attempt at humiliation and infantilisation to bolster your failing argument. Your high school bully tactics are an indication of your failing argument.

Regarding the Teuller Drill, is it about the reactive gap or about the distance of an attacker? You claim to have instructed this. Therefore, you should be able to answer the question.

You can buy a specially toughened umbrella designed for the purpose.

And when too many people are carrying umbrellas, they will become illegal weapons in the UK. Just like bats have become.

This is not illegal.
View attachment 1861701

What are you going to do with Deep Heat? Smear it on the knife weilding attacker's testicles?

 

[vigras rojara]

As would striking with a heavy stick or stabbing with a pointed object. Hollow points stop in the intended body at close range.



I'm not who you think I am. And asking a question is not considered trolling. Did my question make you uncomfortable? A bit too close to home?



What would you call this then:





Nope, it happens in real life too:

Joost's Brother Shoots Robbers to Keep Church Congregation Safe in Centurion

The brother of the late legendary South African scrum half Joost van der Westhuizen is making headlines himself, after shooting dead two armed robbers who

www.sapeople.com

11 More Cases in Which Responsible Gun Owners Saved Lives

In recent weeks, several instances involving the reckless use of firearms dominated national headlines. In one case, a Georgia man tragically lost his life when armed civilians crossed the line between defensive necessity and vigilantism. But such headlines tell only one side of the story...

www.heritage.org

It never fails. A split-second after a mass shooting occurs, grandstanders and ideologues issue statements demanding new gun controls—even if the laws already on the books failed or the laws they want would have made no difference. Case in point: the tragic incidents in Dayton, Ohio, and El Paso, Texas, in early August 2019.

The message is clear: Guns cause violence. Tax them, take them, ban them, regulate them. Do something, maybe anything! Such knee-jerk, emotional responses are dangerous, writes Charles W. Cooke in National Review, “for when a nation sets up a direct pipeline between its emotions and its laws, it does not keep its liberty for long.”

Guns Prevent Thousands of Crimes Every Day, Research Shows

The Center for Disease Control, in a report ordered by President Obama in 2012 following the Sandy Hook Massacre, estimated that the number of crimes prevented by guns could be as high as 3 million annually, or some 8,200 every day. And there is plenty more evidence showing that guns keep...

fee.org

https://ammo.com/research/defensive-gun-use-statistics

Need more? These incidents, unlike a killing, go unreported and feed into the mass hysteria against firearms. More lives are saved using firearms than are illegally taken using firearms. Prove me wrong.

Let's see - you're back to the old "I know the country better than the people who live in it and you really do need guns, you're just too embarrassed to admit it".

That was a tedious line of argument under your previous name and it remains tedious and pathetic under your new one.