[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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OzzieCapie said:
My toll costs for month is higher than my fuel at about $400.
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The difference is you have a viable alternative transport option - we don't.
There are plenty of low income earners who use private transport simply because the taxi's,buses and trains are unsafe, expensive or unreliable so R450 per month when you're only earning say R8000 per month (before deductions) is a significant portion of one's salary.
 
I know a few people that have etags, mostly retirees and people that are really risk averse. I asked them if they read the terms & conditions. None did. When I started explaining the T&Cs, especially if the etag is defective and you will pay full price, they were shocked.

So, there, an interesting why of bringing reality to those that registered.\

EDIT: If the rest of the 1 750 000 users want to register for etags in the next 16 hours (working until midnight), SANRAL will need to register 30 / seconds. Good luck.
 
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Not arguing the rights, wrongs , where money should go etc, just giving perspective from a neutral ground.

Paul_S said:
The difference is you have a viable alternative transport option - we don't.
There are plenty of low income earners who use private transport simply because the taxi's,buses and trains are unsafe, expensive or unreliable so R450 per month when you're only earning say R8000 per month (before deductions) is a significant portion of one's salary.
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mmmhhhh...actually we don't, which is why we have more cars per capita on the roads than most of the rest of world.

Some alternatives:....let's just use a simple case of going to the city rather than another suburb.

Train...oh, I have to get a bus to station..the whole operation will take me about 90min to 2hrs if I synch the time tables...
Taxi....easy, $100...plus you have to pay their tolls ;-)

R450 on R8,000 is a lower ratio than the spend for an average earner here.

Sinbad said:
We paid R30bn plus finance charges, making a total of R89bn for 185km of road UPGRADES, not new roads. Basically a resurface plus one extra lane.
That's nearly R500m PER KILOMETER.
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So my example above for about 10km of extra lane on each side works out to $30M/km....actual costs without finance charges....unless they had cash lying around.

Point I am making is that over here roads are unfundable by levies on motorists alone. It has to come out of general finance or it has to be funded privately and paid for by tolls. That is simply now the reality if roads are to keep up with demand.
 
Jola said:
Because it is no good to mark it as a toll road.

I don't want to avoid toll roads, I only want to avoid toll gantries, and to do that you have to mark them as obstructions / avoidances.

...
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This is the feedback from the Waze community team - so it seems to work (thread on Waze forum):

Waze said:
Hmm, so he wants to avoid toll roads but not use the avoid toll roads feature...
I think what he meant to say is that he wants to avoid only the sections where there are active gantries and not necessarily the entire highway. This has been discussed in this thread already as we're only marking the sections of highway with gantries as toll roads. This will be more than adequate to cater for this guys concerns.
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Waze said:
Just as a follow-up, roads for the current e-toll gantry list have all been flagged for tolling.
All the points were verified on the 30th November and just the segments with gantries on were flagged as tollable. I went through the complete set today again and all the 'points of no return' from where paying tolls cannot be avoided were properly flagged as toll roads. If someone else can also cast a critical eye over this, it would be appreciated.
The Wiki page was updated to reflect the changes.
I have unmarked quite a few sections of the R21 which were previously flagged as toll roads, that should not have been marked.

I also have a query open with the e-Toll call desk as to the location of all 49 supposed gantries and the fact that there is no 'official' downloadable list of the gantries, just the interactive map.
According to the gentleman that assisted me, Swan is designated as a test gantry, which totally confuses me as it's not listed as such on the SANRAL site. (He was quite interested in assisting me with e-toll registration while he had me on the phone after my query was logged)
As soon as I have info on the real deal, I'll fix what needs to be fixed.

Hopefully we have a map update on the 2nd or 3rd that includes updates to the 30th which should effectively take the minimum functionality live. Any update inclusive of 1st Dec should take the whole shebang active.
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What is the best non-etoll route to OR Tambo from the West Rand? Mission through suburbs to linksfield then R24?
 
There are gantries on the N3 at Gilloolys (northbound), Linksfield (southbound) and one on the R24 west just before Gilloolys.

You can't avoid them. ****ers.
 
What are you guys hoping for from the court case today?

I am optimistic that the judge will rule that 14 days notice was necessary, and that SANRAL only gave 13 days notice, hence they have to publish it again in the gazette and this time give 14 days notice. Which will postpone the system into the new year probably.
 
Wyzak said:
What are you guys hoping for from the court case today?
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I hope the interdict doesn't go through as I'm tired of waiting for the inevitable chaos to ensue.
It's time for the public to show this government how they feel about being ripped off and treated like idiots.
 
Paul_S said:
I hope the interdict doesn't go through as I'm tired of waiting for the inevitable chaos to ensue.
It's time for the public to show this government how they feel about being ripped off and treated like idiots.
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Every delay makes it more difficult for SANRAL to survive financially.
 
I am rather proud of a girlfriend. She went to get an etag yesterday but SMSed me to say that she just couldn't do it. Knowing that she doesn't earn anything like a decent salary makes it even more of an achievement.
 
JPSA threatened by SANRAL's lawyers

Lawyers representing the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) have threatened legal action following a request for clarification on e-toll prosecutions, Justice Project SA (JPSA) said on Monday.

This follows JPSA stating on Friday they had addressed a letter to Sanral CEO Nazir Alli, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters, Justice Minister Jeff Radebe, and National Director of Public Prosecutions Mxolisi Nxasana.

The letter asked for details of the exact legal and administrative processes that would be followed for the collection of e-tolls and against those who did not pay.

If this was not forthcoming by noon on Friday, JPSA's attorneys would approach the High Court for clarity.

After sending the letter, JPSA received a response before noon on Friday from Werksmans Attorneys, acting on behalf of Sanral, chairman Howard Dembovsky said in a statement.

They were told among other things that Sanral was not in a position to clarify matters reported by members of the media, where such clarity should be sought from the reporters concerned.

All the information JPSA sought was contained in the various government gazettes about e-tolls, and should an application be brought to the courts, Sanral would seek a costs award against JPSA, with "such an application... an outright abuse of process".

"Whilst JPSA is not in the least bit disused to being outwardly insulted by Sanral, we cannot fathom why it would be that they and their lawyers would seek to completely fail to answer a single question [and] further threaten us in writing," said Dembovsky.

"All we are doing is seeking clarity from the parties who are directly involved in e-tolls as to what processes will be used in the prosecution of e-toll transgressions".

Apart from the fact that motorists were not legally obliged to get an e-tag or register with Sanral, none of the information JPSA sought clarity on was contained in any of the government gazettes, it said.

Furthermore, it was "unreasonable", "sarcastic" and "childish" of Sanral to say JPSA should approach journalists to clarify reports which resulted from statements made by Alli, Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona and Peters, among others.

"If they are suggesting that the various parties have been 'misquoted' then they should say so and rather clarify the situation themselves, since they are in the best position to do so," said Dembovsky.

"Due to the fact that people are being threatened with the imposition of criminal records against them, we feel that it is not in the least bit unreasonable of us to seek clarity on how and when this will happen."

The threat of a costs order against JPSA was also another demonstration of the bullying tactics used by Sanral throughout the process.

"As a result, and because we are reasonable people, we have asked our legal team to again write to the various parties to request a proper, intelligible and sensible response from them."

Should their response not be satisfactory, JPSA would consider approaching a high court for clarity on this matter.

On November 20, Peters announced that the e-tolling of Gauteng's highways would begin on Tuesday.

Mona was not immediately available for comment.


Source : Sapa /aw/aa/jje
Date : 02 Dec 2013 08:22
 
Garyvdh said:
Lawyers representing the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) have threatened legal action following a request for clarification on e-toll prosecutions, Justice Project SA (JPSA) said on Monday.

This follows JPSA stating on Friday they had addressed a letter to Sanral CEO Nazir Alli, Transport Minister Dipuo Peters, Justice Minister Jeff Radebe, and National Director of Public Prosecutions Mxolisi Nxasana.

The letter asked for details of the exact legal and administrative processes that would be followed for the collection of e-tolls and against those who did not pay.

If this was not forthcoming by noon on Friday, JPSA's attorneys would approach the High Court for clarity.

After sending the letter, JPSA received a response before noon on Friday from Werksmans Attorneys, acting on behalf of Sanral, chairman Howard Dembovsky said in a statement.

All the information JPSA sought was contained in the various government gazettes about e-tolls, and should an application be brought to the courts, Sanral would seek a costs award against JPSA, with "such an application... an outright abuse of process".

"Whilst JPSA is not in the least bit disused to being outwardly insulted by Sanral, we cannot fathom why it would be that they and their lawyers would seek to completely fail to answer a single question [and] further threaten us in writing," said Dembovsky.
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Go for it - and if you need some funds let us know where we can contribute.
 
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