[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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Garyvdh said:
Um, there is still one major obstacle.

3 Million road users who have no plans whatsoever to comply with this circus.
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I wonder how many of these people will not comply as a result of apathy or as a form of protest against the system. I think its probably the former. A lot of people I interact with don't have tags because they too lazy to get one, its more a case of "oh if they forced to they will go get one".
 
Bernie said:
I wonder how many of these people will not comply as a result of apathy or as a form of protest against the system. I think its probably the former. A lot of people I interact with don't have tags because they too lazy to get one, its more a case of "oh if they forced to they will go get one".
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This has got me thinking, how far can SANRAL legally go to 'force' you to buy an e-tag?

For example, let’s say they build boom gates at the onramps to highways that operate similar to the existing Bakwena gates. But now the automatic gate opening happens for people with e-tags and all other people need to go through a manual gate.

Notwithstanding the epic traffic nightmare this would cause, would it be legal? Could SANRAL inconvenience the public into submission?
 
CR34M3 said:
This has got me thinking, how far can SANRAL legally go to 'force' you to buy an e-tag?
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They can't, simple as that.

However what they are doing is blackmailing you to do it.
How
Etagged, R450 monthly cap
Non Tagged, the sky is the limit.

boxes
 
blunomore said:
They have completely left the centre.

From the centre's newsletter:

E-Toll has departed the centre and will no longer be available at Benmore. Our thanks go to the team. We will be announcing new and exciting tenants that will be coming to add to the Benmore offering that you have always enjoyed.
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Called centre management. They said that the E-toll shop's lease was up, they offered them a different shop, and they said no.
 
Jan said:
Called centre management. They said that the E-toll shop's lease was up, they offered them a different shop, and they said no.
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Them saying no is quite interesting. Perhaps they had no intention of refurbing the new shop, but at the end of the day that's what they'd have to do even if they relocated.

Seems it really is a financial issue...which is great news to hear...
 
DJ... said:
Them saying no is quite interesting. Perhaps they had no intention of refurbing the new shop, but at the end of the day that's what they'd have to do even if they relocated.

Seems it really is a financial issue...which is great news to hear...
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Their next lease will based on turnover. :p
 
DJ... said:
Them saying no is quite interesting. Perhaps they had no intention of refurbing the new shop, but at the end of the day that's what they'd have to do even if they relocated.

Seems it really is a financial issue...which is great news to hear...
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I dunno so much about it being good news. These crunts will push ahead with the implementation, and if there's only one customer service on the planet they'll carry on regardless with a big "tough ****", and then make money from people who have to travel on a freeway to get to the only remaining customer service centre, which will be right at the end of the toll route. The OTHER end.
 
Sinbad said:
I dunno so much about it being good news. These crunts will push ahead with the implementation, and if there's only one customer service on the planet they'll carry on regardless with a big "tough ****", and then make money from people who have to travel on a freeway to get to the only remaining customer service centre, which will be right at the end of the toll route. The OTHER end.
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It's a pity that this came so late as it could have formed a part of Outa's court case. There is more and more evidence of its imminent collapse streaming in every day.

Don't despair. This is good news. They can't afford to maintain their service centres. They have massive financial problems...
 
DJ... you're deluding yourself if you think one, small eToll customer service centre closing down is a "window" into SANRAL's financial problems. This isn't to say that they have no such issue - but the eToll centre closing down is all but a very, small drop in the ocean.

Make no mistake that SANRAL will get their pound of flesh from anyone that uses these highways.

We can all say we won't buy a tag and won't pay - but what will our tune be when we are faced with a criminal record for something so trivial and an ill-conceived, money making scheme for the government, known as eTolls?

I'd wager that SANRAL will get their pound of flesh, regardless.
South Africans are like sheep. just let the big bad wolf rear it's ugly head and watch everyone fall into line.
 
It is an indication of their financial predicament. Of that I have no doubt. Their positioning there was an operational decision, so they're either admitting operational planning issues, or suffering with finances.

That's not to say that they won't go ahead with e-tolling. They have no choice but to try. All I'm getting at is that they might be closer to default than we currently think...
 
Is it your job to sit on SAPA? :D

You are like a live news feed :)

Garyvdh said:
Transport Minister Ben Martins is failing in his attempts to show government did proper consultations on e-tolling, the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) said on Thursday.

Chairman Wayne Duvenage said Outa was astounded by the minister's address to the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) on Wednesday.

With the SA National Roads Agency Ltd (Sanral) losing another legal e-toll case in Cape Town, plus e-tolling being denounced by the Catholic Church, "it would seem Martins had been out the country", he said.

Martins addressed the NCOP during debate on the Transport Laws and Related Matters Amendment Bill, which is necessary before e-tolling can take place in Gauteng or anywhere else.

The minister said if the growing budget deficit was allowed to increase it would be detrimental to the South African economy.

"This reality makes it necessary to find additional sources of funding to assist the fiscus to meet the various demands made on it so that social expenditure can be maintained, and infrastructure projects implemented," he said.

Infrastructure projects had to be funded through selectively charging road users.

The NCOP adopted the bill against objections by opposition parties, Business Day reported on Thursday.

Duvenage said Outa was willing to pay for necessary road upgrades in Gauteng, but opposed a collection system which would cost almost as much as the GFIP (Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project) upgrades themselves.

"The minister implies that tolling is the only way to pay for road development, as if loans and bonds for the timeous development can't be funded (as they have been for years) through other treasury revenue mechanisms."

Duvenage said of further concern was the lack of consultation before the upgrades began, and the single-mindedness of using e-tolls, without considering less costly user-pay funding.


Source : Sapa /aw/hdw/dd/jk
Date : 23 May 2013 16:00
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Tander said:
DJ... you're deluding yourself if you think one, small eToll customer service centre closing down is a "window" into SANRAL's financial problems. This isn't to say that they have no such issue - but the eToll centre closing down is all but a very, small drop in the ocean.

Make no mistake that SANRAL will get their pound of flesh from anyone that uses these highways.

We can all say we won't buy a tag and won't pay - but what will our tune be when we are faced with a criminal record for something so trivial and an ill-conceived, money making scheme for the government, known as eTolls?

I'd wager that SANRAL will get their pound of flesh, regardless.
South Africans are like sheep. just let the big bad wolf rear it's ugly head and watch everyone fall into line.
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I agree 100%. Also, all those counting on the system collapsing due to the impeding admin nightmare are in for a rude awakening. SANRAL will get their money, 1 way or the other. The only way to stop this is a unified & visible show of opposition.
 
Jweb_@@ said:
I agree 100%. Also, all those counting on the system collapsing due to the impeding admin nightmare are in for a rude awakening. SANRAL will get their money, 1 way or the other. The only way to stop this is a unified & visible show of opposition.
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Portugal's tolling system has a 19% non-compliance rate and they are in massive financial troubles.
That means that more than 80% of people are actually paying their tolls, and the system is STILL not viable.
Now you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that our non-compliance rate will be far, far higher.
DJ and others have already pointed out that it is going to cost them far more to collect the money than they admit.
In fact, every road user in Gauteng SHOULD ACTUALLY be paying around R1,800.00 a month in order for them to just break even.

You might have your opinion, but the facts disagree with you.
 
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