[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[koeksGHT]

Around 9 cents/litre.

That was the stats if they increased fuel levy years ago, would be more like R2-3 now days..

 

[shakes1]

Check it out, I received a response for the DA after letting them know that the email address for comments was not valid (before it started accepting mail again)!

Dear Mr *********,

Thank you for your email.

We have received similar correspondence, and has raised the issue with the DA Shadow Minister of Transport.

Thank you for raising your concerns. Please be assured that it has been taken up.

Kind regards,

Democratic Alliance

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Reason: Can't spell!

Don't feel bad. Whoever wrote that e-mail also can't into grammar.

 

[Cius]

The other thing is that if we refuse to pay they may just ignore that as they do with traffic fines. Many people just ignore fines and they just disappear if left long enough. So long as they are getting some money to buy Nando's every Friday Sanrail may well be happy to leave it at 50% compliance and just ignore the remaining 50%. They will make an example of the occasional motorist but lets face it, so long as they get some money they may well not care.

 

[Paul_S]

So long as they are getting some money to buy Nando's every Friday Sanrail may well be happy to leave it at 50% compliance and just ignore the remaining 50%.

It won't work.
If only 50% of the money is coming in, it means that SANRAL will have to double the tariffs and cap in order to service their debt.
This means that even fewer people can afford to pay the toll fees (R900 per month instead of R450) per month in which case there is even less compliance. It's a catch-22 where eventually 1% are going to be paying 100% of the tolls.

That is why SANRAL and the DOT are in such a state about getting people to become compliant with all their scare mongering, lies and misinformation.

 

[Wyzak]

http://www.news24.com/Africa/Zimbabwe/SA-to-rescue-Zimbabwe-companies-20131021-2

So we don't have money to pay for the e-tolls, but we have money to send to Zimbobwe. (sic)

SA 'to rescue Zimbabwe companies'
2013-10-21 12:00


700+ firms shut down in Harare - report
Hundreds of companies in Zimbabwe are reportedly closing down, throwing tens of thousands of workers onto the streets, a report says.

Cape Town - South Africa has reportedly signed an agreement with Zimbabwe to fund the revival of "targeted distressed" companies in Bulawayo, a report said on Monday.

SA's Trade and Industry deputy minister Elizabeth Thabethe said the two countries had entered into an agreement which would see South Africa help revive the firms in Zimbabwe's second largest city, Southern Eye reported.

Thabethe said the joint partnership was going to see the resuscitation of at least five companies by the end of 2014.

Thabethe could, however, not disclose the actual investment in terms of monetary value that South Africa would channel towards the partnership, the report said.

Bulawayo needs an estimated $400m in the short term to recapitalise.

The report comes amid revelations that hundreds of companies in Harare are closing down, throwing tens of thousands of workers onto the streets.

A Zimbabwe Independent report said scores of big companies that used to employ thousands of people were either on the verge of collapse or had closed down completely, leaving workers in dire situations.

Zimbabwe’s economy has been in shambles for over a decade.

- News24

 

[Priapus]

The other thing is that if we refuse to pay they may just ignore that as they do with traffic fines. Many people just ignore fines and they just disappear if left long enough. So long as they are getting some money to buy Nando's every Friday Sanrail may well be happy to leave it at 50% compliance and just ignore the remaining 50%. They will make an example of the occasional motorist but lets face it, so long as they get some money they may well not care.

No it doesn't work like this. For these eTolls to work SANRAL must have 90% compliance. This is why they are pushing so hard for us to get tagged. If they only get 50% - they will have a serious issue on their hands (They already do, they just don't realize it yet) the system will collapse and SANRAL will default on its debt. We can see SANRAL are worried about the non compliance rate as they also proposed setting up their own special courts.

 

[daveza]

We can see SANRAL are worried about the non compliance rate as they also proposed setting up their own special courts

I'm not going to sleep tonight as I'm so worried about them.

Not.

 

[CR34M3]

Zuma at ANC Manifesto forum: the courts have spoken on eTolls, people must obey

“The roads are to be tolled to pay back the money we borrowed to build the freeways to make the economy flow in Johannesburg. The principle of user pay has to apply to complement the costs incurred by government,” Zuma said.

He did, however, indicate that he might make a concession for students to be exempt of the proposed tolling system.

“It is a matter we may have look at,” he said.

SANRAL/Gov keeps harping on about how people should pay so that there is no debt default, but every other day there’s talk of possible exemptions. Do these people make up these promises as they go along (however economically ludicrous they may be) or are they actually TRYING to fail?

The incoherence and apparent lack of planning depresses me.

 

[Sinbad]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...ourts-have-spoken-on-etolls-people-must-obey/

Courts spoke on apartheid too.

 

[Albereth]

Zuma at ANC Manifesto forum: the courts have spoken on eTolls, people must obey

SANRAL/Gov keeps harping on about how people should pay so that there is no debt default, but every other day there’s talk of possible exemptions. Do these people make up these promises as they go along (however economically ludicrous they may be) or are they actually TRYING to fail?

The incoherence and apparent lack of planning depresses me.

The courts also said Zumatello is corrupt

 

[Wyzak]

Courts spoke on apartheid too.

and the dompas which has the most in common with the e-toll.

 

[bekdik]

The incoherence and apparent lack of planning depresses me.

But that's the way zuma works. Planning takes competence.

 

[AlphaBravo]

So will E toll stop after the money we loaned is paid off? Think not.

 

[McSack]

So will E toll stop after the money we loaned is paid off? Think not.

Of course not. Our roads have been sold off to private companies who want to make a profit. It's only going to get worse if they get away with this one

 

[spiff]

ok this popped up on one of my FB army groups.

From " Dr. T. J. Botha, former head of the 'International Road Traffic Bureau' at the - now defunct - 'Faculty of Transport' of the CSIR,.............

Please follow the advice furnished herein. Don't participate in this, probably the most devious scheme ever designed to make a few very rich and leave all others in miserable poverty and deprivation.

...
FACTS REVEALED ON 702 THIS MORNING re. the e-TOLL TAG.
* Less than 10 000 registered e-Tag's.
* The system is not manageable for cars travelling on the highways without an e-Tag.
* The Ben Schoeman Highway between PTA & JHB carries 300 000 cars per day.
* The e-Tag system is a dismal failure so far.
* The latest R1.75 p/km is a last bid from the government to force us to buy this e-Tag so they can get the 98% of the pension money back they've spend on the toll roads.
* Note - you DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE e-TAG.
DO NOT get an e-TAG and THE SYSTEM WILL FAIL.
Please pass on…..
Scroll further for mindboggling facts….
Do some quick maths . . . .
300 000 cars x R1.75/car = R 525 000.00 per day WRONG: its /km
(and that’s only at one gate) x average 4 gates between PTA- JHB = R 2 100 000.00
x 2 (the return trip) = R 4 200 000.00/day
x 22 work days per month = R 92 400 000.00 per month
x 11.5 working months per year = R 1 062 600 000.00 (One Billion, sixty two million six hundred thousand per year).
WRONG: its /km 300 000 both directions x 1.75 x 40km average (but 300 000 will be reduced as many cannot afford it) = R21 000 000 p.d. = R462 000 000 p.m. = R5 544 000 000 p.a.!!!! Then the bulk thereof is paid to the guys abroad!!! - now who are the actual recipients abroad to be???

(Someone is trying to get rich very very quickly & will have a lot of money to spend on many wives & children.)
What are they going to do with all this money?
It is not just one day – it will be every day!
Your salary will not be increased to pay the tolls, so you will have to take this money from your retirement savings.
All food and drink transported to Johannesburg on these roads will become more expensive.
Once it is up and running, and you have accepted to be tolled, they will increase the price and you have no come-back in the future to stop the tolls!

They have already loaded the petrol price and channelled the money away from roads to more social spending.
Do not register, read the terms and conditions before you register.
By registering you agree to those terms and conditions.
The terms and conditions only benefit SANRAL, and put you at jeopardy.

some interesting reading?

 

[Wyzak]

ok this popped up on one of my FB army groups.
some interesting reading?

Sounds like a bunch of drivel to be honest. Based very loosely on the facts.

 

[DJ...]

That calculation is wrong as it assumes full utilisation by all cars, of all roads, 24X7. A better way to calculate it is to look at what every road user needs to pay, as I did a few pages back, which highlights just how unworkable this system is. IIRC each road user needs to pay around R1800 per month just for Sanral to keep its head above water...

 

[Mila]

http://ewn.co.za/2013/10/23/No-special-courts-for-etolls

This is important. Their scare tactics will not work.

‘No special courts for e-tolls’

JOHANNESBURG - The South African National Roads Agency (Sanral) says there are absolutely no plans at the moment to open specialised courts to enforce e-tolling despite what’s been reported.

The issue of dedicated courts to prosecute those who don’t pay to use Gauteng’s highways has caused great controversy with questions being asked about government's priorities.

Sanral’s Vusi Mona said, “There’s nothing like that, there won’t be any special courts to enforce e-tolling.”

Mona confirmed Sanral met the Department of Justice, but no plans were hatched to launch specialised courts.

E-tolling is due to be launched before the end of the year.

This week, President Jacob Zuma called on motorists to buy e-tags.

 

[spiff]

Sounds like a bunch of drivel to be honest. Based very loosely on the facts.

did not ring right with me either.

That calculation is wrong as it assumes full utilisation by all cars, of all roads, 24X7. A better way to calculate it is to look at what every road user needs to pay, as I did a few pages back, which highlights just how unworkable this system is. IIRC each road user needs to pay around R1800 per month just for Sanral to keep its head above water...

yeah once people sign up and they have their banking details, they will increase the cost to reach that goal and beyond.