[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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There's only one reason I would support e-tolls, and that's to get motorists to use public transport. Obviously government can pay off SANRAL through the fuel levy. The N1 highway from Johannesburg to Pretoria is always congested during afternoons, and this is after the road revamps by SANRAL. Roads can't be widened anymore because there's no more shoulder roads width to do so, on the N1 that is. So if government can make public transport more accessible and a little more convenient then people would start using public transport more and therefore have less traffic congestion on our roads.
 
Sly21C said:
There's only one reason I would support e-tolls, and that's to get motorists to use public transport. Obviously government can pay off SANRAL through the fuel levy. The N1 highway from Johannesburg to Pretoria is always congested during afternoons, and this is after the road revamps by SANRAL. Roads can't be widened anymore because there's no more shoulder roads width to do so, on the N1 that is. So if government can make public transport more accessible and a little more convenient then people would start using public transport more and therefore have less traffic congestion on our roads.
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Cart before the horse.
 
Sly21C said:
So if government can make public transport more accessible and a little more convenient then people would start using public transport more and therefore have less traffic congestion on our roads.
Click to expand...

I'm all for public transport but in it's current form it's inaccessible, slow, expensive and taxi's are not an option.
Public transport is not the holy grail.
Example:
The Gautrain is already operating at near full capacity which is 48 000 riders per day during week days.
Bombela have indicated that they only expected to see these ridership figures in year 10 of the concession.
Compare that with the N1 between PTA and JHB which carries 300,000 vehicles per day (some of which contain more than 1 person) and you'll see that the Gautrain only handles a fraction of the people who need to travel.
i.e. We'd need 10 x Gautrains at a cost of R34 billion each before it would be on par with the N1.

Then on top of it there is the time aspect which no integrated, public transport system is going to get around.
Unless you live and work next to a train or bus station, public transport is always going to be slower than private transport.
That is the main reason why most goods are transported via road instead of rail today.
 
Paul_S said:
I'm all for public transport but in it's current form it's inaccessible, slow, expensive and taxi's are not an option.
Public transport is not the holy grail.
Example:
The Gautrain is already operating at near full capacity which is 48 000 riders per day during week days.
Bombela have indicated that they only expected to see these ridership figures in year 10 of the concession.
Compare that with the N1 between PTA and JHB which carries 300,000 vehicles per day (some of which contain more than 1 person) and you'll see that the Gautrain only handles a fraction of the people who need to travel.
i.e. We'd need 10 x Gautrains at a cost of R34 billion each before it would be on par with the N1.

Then on top of it there is the time aspect which no integrated, public transport system is going to get around.
Unless you live and work next to a train or bus station, public transport is always going to be slower than private transport.
That is the main reason why most goods are transported via road instead of rail today.
Click to expand...

The Gautrain thing i find silly.. during peak they still have 4 carriage ones which makes me think they simply dont have capacity to handle it presently which is why i find the length of time for expansion kinda silly. Why wait that long? I'm guessing they wanna see eTolls going in + other parts prior but as indicated above, it works without too.
 
Pravin was sprouting crap on 702 this morning. From what he was saying is that the roads will cost less if it is funded using the etolls than if a fuel levy is applied. And this is the idiot we have as a minister of finance.
 
Taxi body in e-toll puzzle

http://www.thenewage.co.za/110085-1007-53-Taxi_body_in_etoll_puzzle

The SA National Taxi Council (Santaco) wants clarity on whether long-distance taxi operators will be exempt from e-tolls as the date for its implementation draws closer.

A source within the transport industry questioned whether, for example, taxis travelling between Polokwane and Johannesburg on the affected sections of the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, for reasons other than work, would be exempt.

“The regulations refer to an exempt vehicle being one which is used for commuting. So it may well be argued that if a taxi is on a commuter route, even though it may sometimes carry ‘occasional’ passengers, it falls within that definition. But what then happens in the case of a taxi which during the week carries commuters from Seshego (in Limpopo) to Polokwane, but at weekends carries long-distance passengers to and from Johannesburg?” the source asked.

Santaco national deputy secretary-general, Bafana Magagula was also unclear. “We still have no clarity on that issue from Sanral but our proposal is that all passenger-related vehicles should be exempted from e-tolling”

There’s also concern that in the application process for exemption, there is no appeals process.

But Magagula dismissed the possibility of corruption if, for some reason, a taxi operator was not granted exemption by Sanral, and could not appeal the decision.

“We have a good relationship with government and have an open-door policy with Sanral and the CEO (Nazir Alli) and management. We hope we would be able to negotiate on behalf of a member where an application has been rejected,” Magagula said.

Sanral had not responded at time of going to print.
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Garyvdh said:
Santaco national deputy secretary-general, Bafana Magagula was also unclear. “We still have no clarity on that issue from Sanral but our proposal is that all passenger-related vehicles should be exempted from e-tolling”
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I support that idea. Let's exempt everyone driving in a passenger vehicle and only toll trucks.
 
Paul_S said:
I support that idea. Let's exempt everyone driving in a passenger vehicle and only toll trucks.
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I have a counter, let's exempt everybody who is not using the road for commercial gain. Driving to work and back - not for commercial gain. Driving around and picking up paying passengers - for commercial gain.
 
“We still have no clarity on that issue from Sanral but our proposal is that all passenger-related vehicles should be exempted from e-tolling”
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How about you have a choice - exempted from e-tolling or exempted from tax.

But you can't have both.
 
Paul_S said:
I'm all for public transport but in it's current form it's inaccessible, slow, expensive and taxi's are not an option.
Public transport is not the holy grail.
Example:
The Gautrain is already operating at near full capacity which is 48 000 riders per day during week days.
Bombela have indicated that they only expected to see these ridership figures in year 10 of the concession.
Compare that with the N1 between PTA and JHB which carries 300,000 vehicles per day (some of which contain more than 1 person) and you'll see that the Gautrain only handles a fraction of the people who need to travel.
i.e. We'd need 10 x Gautrains at a cost of R34 billion each before it would be on par with the N1.

Then on top of it there is the time aspect which no integrated, public transport system is going to get around.
Unless you live and work next to a train or bus station, public transport is always going to be slower than private transport.
That is the main reason why most goods are transported via road instead of rail today.
Click to expand...

My feeling is in a few years time, the Gautrain will be a better option than traveling by car. As more cars are introduced onto the N1, more traffic congestion will occur which means people will waste a lot of time getting stuck in traffic, sitting on the driver's seat doing nothing except being frustrated, angry, listening to the radio and driving slowly. Riding the Gautrain on the other hand might take just as long, but there's the added benefit of reading (or studying or working) while on a bus and on the train.

For most people, public transportation as is is not good enough. The Gautrain is hopefully and work in progress and will get better in years to come. Hopefully this will allow more people to leave their cars at home or at the train station and then ride the Gautrain to work.

Personally, I grew up traveling by taxi, so I have no problem with them, except for the fact that they travel on certain routes which sometimes means catching many taxis just to get to a location not too far.
 
Jola said:
Well, one overloaded truck causes the same damage to the road as 150 000 passenger vehicles (CSIR study), so let's be generous and make it 1000X !
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True,, but this would have a major impact on goods & services and directly push inflation
 
Sly21C said:
My feeling is in a few years time, the Gautrain will be a better option than traveling by car. As more cars are introduced onto the N1, more traffic congestion will occur which means people will waste a lot of time getting stuck in traffic, sitting on the driver's seat doing nothing except being frustrated, angry, listening to the radio and driving slowly. Riding the Gautrain on the other hand might take just as long, but there's the added benefit of reading (or studying or working) while on a bus and on the train.

For most people, public transportation as is is not good enough. The Gautrain is hopefully and work in progress and will get better in years to come. Hopefully this will allow more people to leave their cars at home or at the train station and then ride the Gautrain to work.

Personally, I grew up traveling by taxi, so I have no problem with them, except for the fact that they travel on certain routes which sometimes means catching many taxis just to get to a location not too far.
Click to expand...


I'm from Cpt.. taken taxi's before(Cpt) and its fairly safe along the main road routes as like they can't be involved in major accidents as much.. but Jhb is a different place and taxi's are a lot worse so i'd rather walk.

I agree with the Gautrain + Bus system working especially with the new routes announced. People up here need to realize that driving more than 10-15km to work daily = take public transit from a hub near you but we not there yet in terms of sufficient transit hubs to make this possible and so eTolling is a no escape system which is borderline unconstitutional. In fact I still maintain that as road usage on side/alternative roads increase, the maintenance cost, road accident funds lost and insurance costs will result in the Municipality folding and the rest of the roads decaying even more than the current, decay ridden network of roads in Gauteng.
 
Keep money in SA: OUTA

Government's plan to slash official perks is welcome, but more needs to be done to ensure tax money stays in the country, the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) said on Friday.

"Astounding to Outa is the fact that e-tolls will enrich a foreign company with more than R13 billion over the next 20 years, paid for by local motorists," chairman Wayne Duvenage said in a statement.

"[The National] Treasury should be doing all they can to prevent South African taxpayers' money -- for use of social infrastructure -- from leaving the country, let alone enriching any private company, foreign or local."

In his medium-term budget policy statement (MTBPS) on Wednesday, Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan announced that government planned to slash perks for all officials, from ministers to mayors, hoping to save more than R2bn annually from December 1.

The steps included setting a standardised cost limit for official cars, revoking all official credit cards immediately, shrinking the size of delegations travelling abroad, and putting up ministers waiting for official homes in rented apartments instead of hotels.

On Friday, Duvenage said Gordhan's acknowledgement that the reduced spending would result in a cost saving of R2bn a year was "astounding".

"Yet, one must ask why do we have to wait for difficult times before we get harsh on savings of this nature?

"This country requires strong corrective action and accountability throughout the civil service to address the multi-billions of rands squandered each year through maladministration, poor procurement practices and corruption, as detected by the Auditor General."

It was shocking that ministers and civil servants were allowed to remain in government employ after squandering state revenue.

This was a "shocking disgrace and certainly does not display a serious approach towards accountable leadership", Duvenage said.

Outa trusted government would reconsider scrapping e-tolls and putting some of the savings to good use by paying for the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project, he said.

The Supreme Court of Appeal dismissed Outa's appeal against the implementation of e-tolls by the SA National Roads Agency Limited on October 9.

On October 18, Outa announced it would not continue its appeal against the ruling because of a lack of money.


Source : Sapa /dm/fg/jk/th
Date : 25 Oct 2013 10:45
 
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