[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sinbad said:
Really... Tell me, if you heard that your pension fund stood to lose billions because of this, you wouldn't be influenced even a little?
Click to expand...

The GEPF alone has about R1 trillion last time I looked what's a few billion in that that would cause concourt judges to step in and force a decision down people's throats to save a negligible %.
 
Every decision made by the ConCourt gets dissected by legal academics. They would have raised the red flag long ago if there was evidence that the judes are puppets. Reading the desenting judgements of the ConCourt makes me believe that those justices are high rate independent thinkers.
 
 
R13... said:
So you're posting stories of allegations of threats to the concourt instead of examples of the concourt making biased decisions?
Click to expand...

1) Every justice that Zuma has appointed so far has been problematic, two of them have resulted in legal challenges. All of them have been criticised as inexperienced.
2) Zuma has appointed four justices to the Concourt so far. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that he will choose candidates who favour him.
3) Some of these criticisms come from other highly experienced legal minds and judges, not to mention other countries and democracy watchers.
4) You can find a comprehensive list of all the judgments of the Concourt here.... It's a huge list and I am not going to waste my time explaining every one of them to you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_judgments_of_the_Constitutional_Court_of_South_Africa
 
Garyvdh said:
1) Every justice that Zuma has appointed so far has been problematic, two of them have resulted in legal challenges. All of them have been criticised as inexperienced.
2) Zuma has appointed four justices to the Concourt so far. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that he will choose candidates who favour him.
3) Some of these criticisms come from other highly experienced legal minds and judges, not to mention other countries and democracy watchers.
4) You can find a comprehensive list of all the judgments of the Concourt here.... It's a huge list and I am not going to waste my time explaining every one of them to you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_judgments_of_the_Constitutional_Court_of_South_Africa
Click to expand...

Even the US president wouldn't appoint a supreme court judge openly hostile to himself. I'd never deny that Zuma would like to stack the concourt with his lackeys but it hasn't happened. There are enough objective minds on the bench to make no difference on the few appointments the politically biased JSC has recommended to Zuma.

All I'm saying is the concourt has so far made sound constitutional decisions and this is hardly a case that needs them to meddle. In fact, I think they could safely dismiss it out of hand if it weren't for the public interest. It's good thing you're not a concourt judge as you're clearly biased.
 
R13... said:
Even the US president wouldn't appoint a supreme court judge openly hostile to himself. I'd never deny that Zuma would like to stack the concourt with his lackeys but it hasn't happened. There are enough objective minds on the bench to make no difference on the few appointments the politically biased JSC has recommended to Zuma.

All I'm saying is the concourt has so far made sound constitutional decisions and this is hardly a case that needs them to meddle. In fact, I think they could safely dismiss it out of hand if it weren't for the public interest. It's good thing you're not a concourt judge as you're clearly biased.
Click to expand...

We shall see... the history of the continent of Africa does not square up with your analysis.
 
Garyvdh said:
We shall see... the history of the continent of Africa does not square up with your analysis.
Click to expand...

The history of the continent has nothing to do with my initial objection which is based on the current members of the bench and the decisions they have made or will make in this case. Bush favoured pro Life judges in his appointments.
 
Fuma said:
So you admit to what R13 is saying?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Go look through that list of Concourt decisions I posted and look at the results of each decision, then ask yourself how does this favour Zuma or the ANC?
You just have to do the experiment for the current year 2013.
 
R13... said:
The history of the continent has nothing to do with my initial objection which is based on the current members of the bench and the decisions they have made or will make in this case. Bush favoured pro Life judges in his appointments.
Click to expand...

The History of the Continent of Africa highlights a general decline in the independence of the Judiciary after the dates of Independence and a corresponding decline in democracy and a rise in Tyranny/Single Party Rule. South Africa is headed in the same direction. The evidence is already there.
 
Garyvdh said:
The History of the Continent of Africa highlights a general decline in the independence of the Judiciary after the dates of Independence and a corresponding decline in democracy and a rise in Tyranny/Single Party Rule. South Africa is headed in the same direction. The evidence is already there.
Click to expand...

Not difficult to see. Look at the condition of the roads and the general appearance of the cities. Together with the crime and corruption it is a perfect blueprint for a typical third world african-country.
 
SANRAL Reward Opportunistic: DA

Sanral is using an award it received for its controversial e-tolling system to give the project legitimacy, the DA said on Wednesday.

"For this... [the award] to be used as support for the building of toll roads, is just plain ludicrous," Democratic Alliance MP Ian Ollis said in a statement.

"It is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to try and find good reasons for toll roads in South Africa when none exist," he said.

"If anything, it has completely backfired on Sanral, because receiving an award for e-tolling from a group whose major aim is to promote e-tolls is laughable at best."

The SA Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) announced on Tuesday it had been awarded the 2013 Toll Excellence Award by the International Bridge, Tunnel and Turnpike Association (IBTTA) in the technology category.

The awards were based on nominations from the IBTTA's 26 member countries in the categories of technology, customer service, administration, operations and social responsibility.

Sanral nominated itself, describing its e-tolling system as high-tech and a world first.

Ollis said the award could only be granted to members of IBTTA, and that annual membership was nearly R110,000. He claimed Sanral had paid its membership fees with public funds.

Sanral spokesman Vusi Mona said the money for the subscription had come from its own budget.

"This is not the only organisation we are a member of. Sanral is not the first and only government agency in South Africa, or the world, to belong to an organisation of this nature," he said.

Mona said it interacted with organisations globally. He said Sanral was taken aback by the DA's "pettiness and sour grapes".

"We were announced as the winner by a reputable international association. What is becoming clear is that their opposition has nothing to do with the work of Sanral, but rather politics.

"I would appeal to the DA that it should be careful not to destroy a national asset that belongs to all South Africans."

Ollis said the DA would submit parliamentary questions to Transport Minister Ben Martins about how many memberships were held by his department and its reporting entities, how they were decided and their costs and benefits.

The awards would be presented at IBTTA's annual meeting in Vancouver, Canada, on September 23.


Source : Sapa /aa/hdw/th/clh
Date : 05 Jun 2013 16:11
 
Garyvdh said:
Reasons why the legal challenge should go ahead....

1) This is our chance to stick it to SANRAL, waste their time, give them the finger, even if the challenge is ultimately unsuccessful.
2) There is the outside chance, pretty remote, that the challenge might be successful, but better to have tried, than not tried.
3) OUTA is not to be sneezed at, they represent big players in the motor industry and the public.
4) I would rather send my money there than have paid tolls for all these months now, I have been giving OUTA R500 every month.
Click to expand...

Yeah I recently started donating R500 to OUTA. It's an important principle for me to support these guys.

Reasons to pay for me:

  • I detest the fact that government have railroaded public sentiment and comment.
  • I detest the fact that government have treated me like a fool by choosing the most expensive method of recouping costs.
  • I detest the fact that government refuses publicise all aspects and contracts of the roads and gantries built.
  • I detest the fact that government chose to use an international company in this venture who also stands to gain most from this.
  • I detest the fact that government has not provided me with an alternate means of travelling to/from work, i.e. a reliable mode of public transport.
  • I detest the fact that government has not adequately maintained and/or upgraded secondary routes, which will now take even more pressure from motorists looking to avoid the tolls. Herein is the increased times required to reach detinations, increased accidents and fatalities.

I am not a fool nor do I appreciate being treated as such by government and SANRAL. The most cost effective means of collection is through the fuel levy. It costs practically nothing and cannot be avoided.

If you think that the current tariffs are tollerable, read this. Once this animal is signed into being, increases in tariffs will be easier to shoved down on us. Increases will be greater than CPI because of their obligations to pay off loans, delayed implementation of tolling and that the cost of collection will become massively expensive.

I would rather support OUTA all the way even if it were ultimately unsuccessful. It's the best chance we have. It's this or buy a massive stock of vaselline. Personally the latter option is not appealing :sick:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X