[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[MrGray]

So, according to this link you have up to 59 days to pay:

http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_11845~~ENG~~~~~~

In order to hand you over, I assume they need to have waited for this period and at some point sent a registered letter informing you of the debt. At which point, one could fill out and submit their dispute form available here:

http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/index.php?gort_xml+template~~menu/main~~L1_11840~~ENG~~~~~~


If we stand together, do not register, pay only when you get an invoice by registered post, and file disputes for every invoice, chances are it will be months before you have to pay anything, and the system may well collapse before that.

Million dollar question - will the majority of big talkers cave in and buy a tag before 3 December, or not? Hopefully not as all you have to do is nothing, until they really start demanding money, which is generally the South African way.

 

[drnaphtali]

For interest sake; I live in Pretoria but my car is registered to my parents’ house in Somerset West (Western Cape). How will registered letters etc. work?

 

[MrGray]

For interest sake; I live in Pretoria but my car is registered to my parents’ house in Somerset West (Western Cape). How will registered letters etc. work?

They will be sent to whichever address is on eNatis for that vehicle.

 

[DJ...]

Still no explanation of how they're planning on informing an unregistered victim within 7 days. Unless, of course, they have no intention of doing so.

They don't have to, according to the Sanral act or whatever the hell it's called. It is simply your responsibility to pay it if you pass a gantry...

They have no intention of doing so. Because it's a tax bill it's your responsibility to find out about it and not theirs to tell you about it and make sure that you know about it. Bunch of crap if you ask me.

Part of their legal arguments that they put forth in their court cases has been that it is not a tax at all. And that might in fact be their downfall at the end of the day as it is quite clearly a tax. But as far as government is concerned, this is not a tax...

 

[kat06sa]

Question: On what grounds can we dispute the invoice?

 

[ToxicBunny]

They have no intention of doing so. Because it's a tax bill it's your responsibility to find out about it and not theirs to tell you about it and make sure that you know about it. Bunch of crap if you ask me.

If its a tax bill, then I doubt they can "hand you over" to debt collectors or credit bureaus

 

[DJ...]

I can't see how that makes sense. How am I supposed to know what amount to pay within 7 days? Basically, they are going to make it impossible to pay within 7 days unless you are registered, which involves entering into a contract with them.

If you pass a gantry and are not registered, it is your responsibility to go to an e-toll outlet to obtain your balance and pay the due amount within 7 days of passing said gantry. Ridiculous, I know...

 

[DJ...]

Question: On what grounds can we dispute the invoice?

Any damn ground you see fit. Just object in writing to everything. Every invoice. Every picture. All of it. Then if you absolutely have to pay, do so in instalments imo at the very last opportunity you get...

 

[blunomore]

If you pass a gantry and are not registered, it is your responsibility to go to an e-toll outlet to obtain your balance and pay the due amount within 7 days of passing said gantry. Ridiculous, I know...

Responsibility based on / emanating from what ?

 

[MrGray]

If you pass a gantry and are not registered, it is your responsibility to go to an e-toll outlet to obtain your balance and pay the due amount within 7 days of passing said gantry. Ridiculous, I know...

Legal responsibility? Is this in whatever act makes e-tolling possible?

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

@MD4E

I agree. SA people are jammergatte. But this time it feels different. I have never seen the middle class this angry. They are moving away from apathy to anger. And this are the people that pay taxes. They are also so deep in debt, most can't afford the etolls. It sounds like a generalization, but the stats don't lie. 75% of disposable income goes to debt payments. This is average.

The irony is that the fearmongering is done by a company, not government. I don't hear the NPA, police, metro and justice making etolls statements.

@Wyzak. Not sure that it is a tax law.

I think Outa has made the most effort in this - none of the other parties really have the public interest at heart and are just playing political games to garner votes. It is disappointing (or perhaps it is still coming) that Outa has not done more yet to educate the masses on how to deal with e-tolls. I always wondered if our "so liberal" constitution does not allow the public to lodge a referendum. I also wondered why the public protector has not shown as much interest in this as in Nkandla (which tells me there is political bias in Nkandla to attack Zuma vs zero interest to look at e-toll which affects many entities). As many have said (and although not quite comparable), the previous government passed laws which were eventually challenged by the citizens of this country and it's leaders, why can't the same happen here.

From my personal legal issues I could honestly care less if Sanral tries to dock me for not paying a few stupid fines. I am just surprised that people are worried about this "criminal prosecution" over not paying gantry fees - really?

 

[LazyLion]

Avis supports e-tolls

Avis Southern Africa acknowledged the "positive impact" of tolls in Gauteng on Tuesday.

The company, where Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) chairman Wayne Duvenage used to work, said it would continue to support upgrades to roads countrywide.

"The introduction of e-tolls in Gauteng will be a new experience for us all," Avis rent-a-car Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin said in a statement.

"However, we have invested significantly in our systems and people to ensure that our customers' Avis rental experience will continue to be as seamless as possible as they are our greatest asset."

Avis had installed e-tags in its national fleet and had developed the necessary IT systems to ensure that any e-toll fees incurred by its customers during the rental period would be included in their final invoice.

A final invoice would be available only two days after the vehicle was returned and would highlight the total e-toll amount, the company said.

"Avis will charge the standard e-toll tariff, per e-toll gantry, to a monthly maximum value of R450 as published in the Government Gazette," it said.

"The standard tariff, which is higher than the tariff paid by registered e-tag users, is being charged to enable Avis to recover the costs of implementing systems and resources to manage e-toll compliance."

Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced on Wednesday that e-tolling on Gauteng's highways would begin on December 3.

Duvenage, who was former CEO of Avis, said it was always going to be difficult for companies to defy e-tolls.

He said if car rental companies had to choose between a fuel levy or e-tolls, he was certain they would choose the fuel levy.

"They are under pressure... so I don't blame them for not going against e-tolls," he said.

Duvenage resigned as Avis rent-a-car CEO last June. He said his relationship with the company remained strong.

Earlier this month, the Democratic Alliance and the Freedom Front Plus announced they would each bring high court applications to fight the constitutionality of the e-toll bill President Jacob Zuma signed in September.

A legal challenge to e-tolling by Outa was dismissed by the Supreme Court of Appeal on October 9.


Source : Sapa /dm/jk/ks/cls
Date : 26 Nov 2013 16:35

 

[LazyLion]

SANRAL continues to mislead public: OUTA

The SA National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) is continuing to mislead the public about e-tags and e-tolling, the Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) said on Tuesday.

The figure Sanral had provided on the number of e-tags which had been sold was a ploy to create the impression that people were flocking to purchase them, said Outa chairman Wayne Duvenage.

"Sanral have yet to confirm how many actual individual road users have purchased an e-tag, which we suspect is a much smaller proportion of total e-tag sales," he said in a statement.

He said the figure provided by Sanral that 700,000 e-tags were sold, included large fleet operators, banks, car rental companies, government fleets, and leasing companies.

"We simply don't believe their rhetoric in this space," he said.

On Tuesday morning, Sapa made enquiries about the number of e-tags sold to individuals, the number sold to government departments, and the number sold to companies. By 4pm, Sanral had not responded.

Duvenage said the information given by Sanral was incorrect as its website calculator gave different figures.

"They have misled the public before and we are convinced they are doing this again to create false impressions of acceptance of their system. The simple truth is the public are not taking this lying down."

Outa has said it will soon release details of its strategy on empowering society, including providing motorists with knowledge about their rights, and legal advice.

Duvenage said Outa would provide legal counsel and a legal team to the first person summonsed for non-payment of e-toll bills.

"This first case will be the test case...," he said.

"Until then, Outa urges the public to exercise civil courage and know that it is not only their right, but their duty to resist and reject a law which has been implemented in a manner that works against the best interests of the people."


Source : Sapa /mar/jk/ks/cls
Date : 26 Nov 2013 16:42

 

[OrbitalDawn]

lol, so they've got e-Tags, which means they're paying the discounted rate, but they're charging their customers the higher rate? Good going, Avis.

 

[MrGray]

Avis Southern Africa acknowledged the "positive impact" of tolls in Gauteng on Tuesday.

Next time you rent, throw the tag out, or toss it in an adjacent rental when you collect (there are usually a few unlocked ones around). Buy an unregistered tag before returning it. Scratch head in puzzlement when returning vehicle and dispute you ever went on the highway.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Next time you rent, throw the tag out, or toss it in an adjacent rental when you collect (there are usually a few unlocked ones around). Buy an unregistered tag before returning it. Scratch head in puzzlement when returning vehicle and dispute you ever went on the highway.

Or just don't use Avis...

Although I suppose the other rental agencies will be doing the same. :|

 

[DJ...]

Responsibility based on / emanating from what ?

Emanating from the fact that government are crooks and will force this on users no matter what the cost to us...

Legal responsibility? Is this in whatever act makes e-tolling possible?

Yes...

Next time you rent, throw the tag out, or toss it in an adjacent rental when you collect (there are usually a few unlocked ones around). Buy an unregistered tag before returning it. Scratch head in puzzlement when returning vehicle and dispute you ever went on the highway.

Serious penalties for doing so, I presume. And they're in all likelihood fixed to the car...

 

[DJ...]

Avis Southern Africa acknowledged the "positive impact" of tolls in Gauteng on Tuesday.

The company, where Opposition to Urban Tolling Alliance (Outa) chairman Wayne Duvenage used to work, said it would continue to support upgrades to roads countrywide.

"The introduction of e-tolls in Gauteng will be a new experience for us all," Avis rent-a-car Southern Africa CEO Keith Rankin said in a statement.

"However, we have invested significantly in our systems and people to ensure that our customers' Avis rental experience will continue to be as seamless as possible as they are our greatest asset."

Avis had installed e-tags in its national fleet and had developed the necessary IT systems to ensure that any e-toll fees incurred by its customers during the rental period would be included in their final invoice.

A final invoice would be available only two days after the vehicle was returned and would highlight the total e-toll amount, the company said.

"Avis will charge the standard e-toll tariff, per e-toll gantry, to a monthly maximum value of R450 as published in the Government Gazette," it said.

"The standard tariff, which is higher than the tariff paid by registered e-tag users, is being charged to enable Avis to recover the costs of implementing systems and resources to manage e-toll compliance."

Transport Minister Dipuo Peters announced on Wednesday that e-tolling on Gauteng's highways would begin on December 3.

Duvenage, who was former CEO of Avis, said it was always going to be difficult for companies to defy e-tolls.

He said if car rental companies had to choose between a fuel levy or e-tolls, he was certain they would choose the fuel levy.

"They are under pressure... so I don't blame them for not going against e-tolls," he said.

Duvenage resigned as Avis rent-a-car CEO last June. He said his relationship with the company remained strong.

Earlier this month, the Democratic Alliance and the Freedom Front Plus announced they would each bring high court applications to fight the constitutionality of the e-toll bill President Jacob Zuma signed in September.

A legal challenge to e-tolling by Outa was dismissed by the Supreme Court of Appeal on October 9.


Source : Sapa /dm/jk/ks/cls
Date : 26 Nov 2013 16:35

Yet another godforsaken fscking Sapa article where the headline is not quoted anywhere in the article...

Avis Southern Africa acknowledged the "positive impact" of tolls in Gauteng on Tuesday.

WHERE?! Where do they acknowledge the positive impact, moron Sapa journalist?

 

[MrGray]

Serious penalties for doing so, I presume. And they're in all likelihood fixed to the car...

Nah, I doubt they'd ever have a clue. You can just say it fell off, worst case. Anyway you'd be replacing the thing, free of charge

 

[DJ...]

Nah, I doubt they'd ever have a clue. You can just say it fell off, worst case. Anyway you'd be replacing the thing, free of charge

It won't be linked to their billing system that they've created. In the rental agreement there will no doubt be serious penalties for damage, theft, loss, and loss of the e-tag...