Mbeki may be right about whites

[Gothan]

Those of you ready to point out that you are a victim of crime and pointing out that being sick of crime does not make you racist are missing the point.

The point is not that crime does not exist, it is that white South Africans view the crime situation differently. In fact, perhaps its not even whites, I think its suburbanites.

Having grown up in the Cape Flats for the first 19 years of my life, and still having friends who do, I can tell you that for the people living there crime is nothing new. Gunshots ringing out in the middle of the night was a regular occurence.

The reason crime seems more prevelant to those previously sheltered individuals is because there is no longer a whitewash in the press about the state of life in South Africa. We can now get all the gory details and the media will give it because many South Africans still belive our new democracy cannot succeed. Why they want to believe this, I do not know. You will have to search your own mind and heart for that answer.

Another reason crime seems more prevelant is because the formally whites suburbs used to be heavily patrolled. What criminal stood a chance?

I am not saying crime is not a problem, but being negative and constantly complaining is not a solution. Arguing and pointing fingers is not a solution.

And just for the record, I have been robbed nine times. 3 of those times was before 1994.

I agree with you, crime is much worse in the twonships and we do never hear about it. But being a victim of crime you should complain, and being robbed 3 times after 94 you should be vocal, because the government will not respond if its not criticized. And thats the problem, the government wants this country to be on a constant guilt trip. No you shouldnt complain, because other people are worse of, no you shouldnt complain, this is the new south africa and its not helping.

Sweeping crime and crime stats under the rug is not helping, and the only time the president responds to crime, is when he brings racism into it

 

[Syndyre]

Those of you ready to point out that you are a victim of crime and pointing out that being sick of crime does not make you racist are missing the point.

The point is not that crime does not exist, it is that white South Africans view the crime situation differently. In fact, perhaps its not even whites, I think its suburbanites.

Having grown up in the Cape Flats for the first 19 years of my life, and still having friends who do, I can tell you that for the people living there crime is nothing new. Gunshots ringing out in the middle of the night was a regular occurence.

The reason crime seems more prevelant to those previously sheltered individuals is because there is no longer a whitewash in the press about the state of life in South Africa. We can now get all the gory details and the media will give it because many South Africans still belive our new democracy cannot succeed. Why they want to believe this, I do not know. You will have to search your own mind and heart for that answer.

Another reason crime seems more prevelant is because the formally whites suburbs used to be heavily patrolled. What criminal stood a chance?

I am not saying crime is not a problem, but being negative and constantly complaining is not a solution. Arguing and pointing fingers is not a solution.

And just for the record, I have been robbed nine times. 3 of those times was before 1994.

This isn't a uniquely SA phenomenon though. Plenty of countries in the west have "no go areas" with problems like the Cape Flats, whereas the suburbs are generally safe. The fact that more areas are now unsafe and that there are essentially very few safe areas left does mean that crime has gotten worse! Why does everything in this country have to be a race to the bottom? Why if some areas were bad before is it now more acceptable that they're all bad. The point is that overall things have gotten worse and politicians playing the race card and suggesting that the victims are racist is ridiculous. If the same crime situation that plays out in the suburbs here was playing out in the suburbs of New York, Sydney, Zurich, Toronto, Tokyo etc. do you not think the response would have been radically different? Do you not think it would have been brought under control by now?

 

[MyDraadloos]

Cape Town - President Thabo Mbeki has a point when he says that racism plays a role in white people's attitude to crime, according to at least two experts.

It would seem that Thabo does not know the difference between the word "race" and "racism".

Since they removed race from all crime statistics it is difficult to tell "who" is perpetrating "what".

The SABC sub-text for a white criminal is "racially motivated" ......... while the armed heist perps lying face down on the pavement are referred to as "suspects". One would think the fact that they got caught in the act would exclude them from the presumption of innocence.

Maybe Mr. Balfour can give us some statistics on the demographics of the prison population.

Roman salute for Thabo .........

 

[air]

Cape Town - President Thabo Mbeki has a point when he says that racism plays a role in white people's attitude to crime, according to at least two experts.

Experts <snigger> - pls take with a handful of salt of what ole Thabs refers to as experts, caste your mind a bit further back at the time of the AIDS debacle - nuff said!

 

[Zenabi]

If all the crime that has been perpetrated against you and those you know was committed by people wearing red hats, are you not allowed to be wary of people wearing red hats?

 

[Pitbull]

Outch

Looks like this thread exploded in xtermin8or's face, however he has a point.
White's are again labled as racists /Sigh

Common Mbeki... Wake up and smell the coffee...

 

[xtermin8or]

Cape Town - President Thabo Mbeki has a point when he says that racism plays a role in white people's attitude to crime, according to at least two experts.

Experts <snigger> - pls take with a handful of salt of what ole Thabs refers to as experts, caste your mind a bit further back at the time of the AIDS debacle - nuff said!

The President did not call them experts, they are being called experts by the newspaper, and probably with good reason as they are experts in their field - SAIRR

 

[skoob]

Experts <snigger> - pls take with a handful of salt of what ole Thabs refers to as experts, caste your mind a bit further back at the time of the AIDS debacle - nuff said!

lol

 

[Syndyre]

Looks like this thread exploded in xtermin8or's face

Reality's a bitch.

I'd still like to see the ANC reaction to a heading like "Leon/Zille etc. may be right about blacks". If the one is acceptable then why not the other?

 

[w1z4rd]

The President did not call them experts, they are being called experts by the newspaper, and probably with good reason as they are experts in their field - SAIRR

They have experts in finding excuses to avoid responsibility? Oh.. they do

 

[Jozi101]

you would, no surprises there, thing is most of the traditional ANC voter base will

No, most black people would though.

 

[liancat]

Thabo Mbeki dislikes whites and is racist -- people have stated that years! ago. That's okay there are white politicians that are racist too! That whole group of 50yr-70yr old politicians are from the old system and are always going to see the world through tainted eyes. The gr8 thing is although racism is alive today I believe most school kids don't "get" it. By it I mean the concepts of apartheid etc. .. they're naive and that's a good thing. That older group is never going to change and cannot relate to kids under 20 today and vice versa.

Personally I don't like Mbeki and statistics cannot be ignored with most crimes being committed by blacks. Saying crime comes because of perception is BS. Accountability means saying yes its committed by blacks, owning that and what are we going to do about it. How can we change SA for the better. Thing is Mbeki doesn't know how to deal with that or solve the problem so he avoids that -- which prevents him looking like a failure. And all politicians mind you.

What that statement refers to (and this is just my interpretation) is that crime is a self-fulfilling prophecy. He's referring to the pygmalion egalitarian affect etc... if a white person perceives a black person as being a criminal over and over again, that black person will become a criminal (act).

I don't buy the argument of self-fulfilling prophecies as an excuse that crime is committed. You can justify it all you want but perception is really an excuse for failed leadership on the politicians parts. And I hold them accountable.

 

[xtermin8or]

Reality's a bitch.

I'd still like to see the ANC reaction to a heading like "Leon/Zille etc. may be right about blacks". If the one is acceptable then why not the other?

Opposition parties caused a huge stink abot Mbeki's comments in ANC Today, so why shouldn't the ANC cause a stink if that headline were ever to appear - what's good for the Goose

 

[Jozi101]

Reality's a bitch.

I'd still like to see the ANC reaction to a heading like "Leon/Zille etc. may be right about blacks". If the one is acceptable then why not the other?

It has to be based on fact, and fact is that whites were brought up to think that most black men are criminals. Changing a mind set like that will take a lot, and i believe admitting to the problem is a good start. Crime is a big problem, i'm not disputing that. I agree with Mbeki though that a lot of the fear on the part of the whites is inspired by racism.

Yes most prisoners are black, duh 90 % of the country's popullation is black. What did you expect?

 

[Syndyre]

Opposition parties caused a huge stink abot Mbeki's comments in ANC Today, so why shouldn't the ANC cause a stink if that headline were ever to appear - what's good for the Goose

The ANC have every right to, I don't think either should appear which is my point, one isn't more or less acceptable than the other.

 

[Pitbull]

Yes most prisoners are black, duh 90 % of the country's popullation is black. What did you expect?

Damn where do you live ? Nigeria ?

 

[BobbyMac]

It has to be based on fact, and fact is that whites were brought up to think that most black men are criminals. Changing a mind set like that will take a lot, and i believe admitting to the problem is a good start. Crime is a big problem, i'm not disputing that. I agree with Mbeki though that a lot of the fear on the part of the whites is inspired by racism.

Yes most prisoners are black, duh 90 % of the country's popullation is black. What did you expect?

Where did you get 90% of the population is Black from?

 

[Syndyre]

It has to be based on fact, and fact is that whites were brought up to think that most black men are criminals. Changing a mind set like that will take a lot, and i believe admitting to the problem is a good start. Crime is a big problem, i'm not disputing that. I agree with Mbeki though that a lot of the fear on the part of the whites is inspired by racism.

Yes most prisoners are black, duh 90 % of the country's popullation is black. What did you expect?

I can't speak for other people but my fear of crime is based on the fact that in the few months I've been living where I am now we've had 2 cars broken into behind a locked gate and had burglar proofing ripped off and a laptop and cellphone stolen while we were at home. It seems to have been fine since we had external motion sensors put in and got a dog but that doesn't mean crime is any less of an issue, and this is in an area that would be regarded as "safe" btw. I'm not denying there are still a lot of racists around, black and white, all I can say is that my fear of crime is based on crime and not racism.

And I didn't make the point about black prisoners anyway.

 

[rwenzori]

This is just your standard African politician trying to divert attention from his own stuffups - rather look at those racist whites than the cockup we are making with the strike. White African politicians also did it - don't fret about the Info Scandal - worry about the Swart Gevaar!

 

[LottaFun]

Our presedente and the Zimbabwe presedente think the same. Look what happened to ZIM and they did not even have apartheid. Oooo, I forgot, they blame it on the colonial guys. If you are a black guy and have a problem that you can not resolve, please do one the following

1. Play the racism card
2. Play the colonial card
3. Play the "nobody trained me" card
4. Play the "I do not understand" card

OR

5. TOY-TOY and burn tires

Any of the above options will redirect the problem away from you being
unable to use logic to resolve a problem. Always hide behind something.