Mbeki may be right about whites

[xtermin8or]

Our presedente and the Zimbabwe presedente think the same. Look what happened to ZIM and they did not even have apartheid. Oooo, I forgot, they blame it on the colonial guys. If you are a black guy and have a problem that you can not resolve, please do one the following

1. Play the racism card
2. Play the colonial card
3. Play the "nobody trained me" card
4. Play the "I do not understand" card

OR

5. TOY-TOY and burn tires

Any of the above options will redirect the problem away from you being
unable to use logic to resolve a problem. Always hide behind something.

If you are a white guy and have a problem that you can not resolve, please do one the following

1. Play the racism card
2. Play the crime card
3. Play the marginalisation card
4. Play the discrimination card

OR

5. moan and whinge and threaten to leave the country

Any of the above options will redirect the problem away from you being
unable to use logic to resolve a problem. Always hide behind something.

 

[rwenzori]

If you are a white guy and have a problem that you can not resolve, please do one the following

1. Play the racism card
2. Play the crime card
3. Play the marginalisation card
4. Play the discrimination card

OR

5. moan and whinge and threaten to leave the country

Any of the above options will redirect the problem away from you being
unable to use logic to resolve a problem. Always hide behind something.

Some good ideas there. Thanks for the tips!

 

[Sneeky]

It has to be based on fact, and fact is that whites were brought up to think that most black men are criminals. Changing a mind set like that will take a lot, and i believe admitting to the problem is a good start. Crime is a big problem, i'm not disputing that. I agree with Mbeki though that a lot of the fear on the part of the whites is inspired by racism.

Yes most prisoners are black, duh 90 % of the country's popullation is black. What did you expect?

Jozi please dont pretend to understand how 'most' white people were brought up, or any people for that matter. Again referendum, 70 % of this segment of the population did not vote for criminals pal, I for one voted for people.

How can you say the fear is inspired by racism, it is an intriguing statement and I would dearly like you to elaborate on this notion, really.

I would wager though that the genuine fear in the white communities is due to the increase in crime rates in the white suburbs, the nature of the crimes and the shear violence that they are carried out with.
There was a show on 3rd degree or special assignment that looked at this phenomenon.
The hatred seems to come from the other direction.

White people are not going into predominantly non white areas, breaking into peoples homes, raping them and pouring boiling water over them till they die boet.

Why is the government translating this fear into a racist argument?

Yes the police force looks after everyone now and not just a select few, Yes white people lived a privileged life in the past at the expense of others, this we know, but how do you and the president for that matter expect people to react that have to now barricade themselves indoors behind endless security when they never had to in the past because they fear for their lives, and rightly so. Nobody can dispute the crime figures in the suburbs, so why when people complain are they labeled racist, because that fits the political agenda or do I have it wrong.

Instead of pointing fingers and labelling people racist or not why not focus the energy on solving the problem ffs? start with Selebi.

 

[Gothan]

Jozi please dont pretend to understand how 'most' white people were brought up, or any people for that matter. Again referendum, 70 % of this segment of the population did not vote for criminals pal, I for one voted for people.

How can you say the fear is inspired by racism, it is an intriguing statement and I would dearly like you to elaborate on this notion, really.

I would wager though that the genuine fear in the white communities is due to the increase in crime rates in the white suburbs, the nature of the crimes and the shear violence that they are carried out with.
There was a show on 3rd degree or special assignment that looked at this phenomenon.
The hatred seems to come from the other direction.

White people are not going into predominantly non white areas, breaking into peoples homes, raping them and pouring boiling water over them till they die boet.

Why is the government translating this fear into a racist argument?

Yes the police force looks after everyone now and not just a select few, Yes white people lived a privileged life in the past at the expense of others, this we know, but how do you and the president for that matter expect people to react that have to now barricade themselves indoors behind endless security when they never had to in the past because they fear for their lives, and rightly so. Nobody can dispute the crime figures in the suburbs, so why when people complain are they labeled racist, because that fits the political agenda or do I have it wrong.

Instead of pointing fingers and labelling people racist or not why not focus the energy on solving the problem ffs? start with Selebi.

Hear hear!!! Give this man a cigar!!! I agree with you 100% on this.

I dont care whose in charge of security and all in this country, he can be purple or pink or yellow, with friendly painted butt cheeks, but he is not doing he's job and deserves to be criticised!! If you cannot do your job, will your boss continue to employ you?? No he will fire you, but here it does not seem to happen, here we work on the buddy system

 

[LottaFun]

I was just wondering. Of all the people that are killed by crime related incidents, how many are white and how many are black. I did see a statistic once but I can not remember, but what I do remember was that a heng of a lot more innocent black people are killed per year than white people.

If that is the case, then the worries of the white people about crime will be to the benefit of the innocent black, coloured and indian people. SO THEN WHY ARE THEY NOT SPEAKING UP? I have yet to see a massive march of black people against crime!

 

[xtermin8or]

I was just wondering. Of all the people that are killed by crime related incidents, how many are white and how many are black. I did see a statistic once but I can not remember, but what I do remember was that a heng of a lot more innocent black people are killed per year than white people.

If that is the case, then the worries of the white people about crime will be to the benefit of the innocent black, coloured and indian people. SO THEN WHY ARE THEY NOT SPEAKING UP? I have yet to see a massive march of black people against crime!

Black people have been living with crime for a long time, under Apartheid, so the slight reduction they see now is a positive thing and no need to complain.

Under Apartheid, the priveleged white class were well protected by the police, now that the crime has infiltrated previously white areas, they feel that crime has increased and need to complain

You see it's all about perception

 

[LottaFun]

I second the cigar. Give the man two!!!

It is in your blood to murder or it is not. If you have values, you will not. If you do not you will. It is all about choices. It is not about your skin colour.

 

[sox63]

Black people have been living with crime for a long time, under Apartheid, so the slight reduction they see now is a positive thing and no need to complain.

Under Apartheid, the priveleged white class were well protected by the police, now that the crime has infiltrated previously white areas, they feel that crime has increased and need to complain

You see it's all about perception

I have to agree with that one. I feel safer knowing that our Police force now protects ALL of us.

Here is what I base my logic on. Pre-90s the police forces' priority was the protection of basically white areas, and life was rosey for them, some of the older white people I know complain of the days gone by when it was safer. Now AFAIK there has not been a doubling or even trippling of the police force, so they just cannot cope with, hence the upsurge in crime.

Simple logic, but IMO explains where we find ourselves.

 

[LottaFun]

So if I understand your comment right, 15000 black people dying is acceptable to them because in the past it was 20000?

Heng, that makes a lot of sense. Are you joking????

 

[JBFRobisher]

Black people have been living with crime for a long time, under Apartheid, so the slight reduction they see now is a positive thing and no need to complain.

Under Apartheid, the priveleged white class were well protected by the police, now that the crime has infiltrated previously white areas, they feel that crime has increased and need to complain

You see it's all about perception

No - it's about crime, as I see it. Must we be grateful just because we have not yet gone the way of Zimbabwe? That someone is worse off, or as badly off, is not an excuse for govt failing in its primary duty of protecting its citizens ( of any friggin colour! ). Thabo should STFU.

 

[sox63]

So if I understand your comment right, 15000 black people dying is acceptable to them because in the past it was 20000?

Heng, that makes a lot of sense. Are you joking????

Eish, my comment was about the distribution of resources!!!

 

[rwenzori]

Reconstitute the Commandos, let us do 2-3 days on duty every two months, give us some nice rifles and a Ratel or two, let us go crack some skulls, and we'll sort this urban crime crap out chop-chop.

 

[Bageloo]

So if I understand your comment right, 15000 black people dying is acceptable to them because in the past it was 20000?

Heng, that makes a lot of sense. Are you joking????

crime in black areas is seldom reported in the media. most people won't even hear about the 15000 being murdered.

 

[Rooinek]

Merry-go-round

I have been avoiding this forum for a while because the views of the members really never change. They go round and round on the same issue.

I think the key thread in this forum was to moan about how the country is going to the dogs, however, since the country is economically healthy, the forumites had to moan about anything that "proves" that the country is going to the dogs. That something just happens to be crime because of course crime is prevalent in this country. Unfortunately, more and more people joined the forum who did not share this sentiment and this has lead to a continual argument about the same thing.

Look, crime has always been prevalent, it is only that, it was through aparthied, confined to the townships, everyone who lived in Gauteng townships will tell you about the reign of various criminal elements who where more sadistic than the rest, examples would include the notorious msomi gang, the spoilers, amajackroller's, makabasa etc. Crime was high and black life was cheap.

The white press did not report this as it was non-news as the victims were black and the tsotsi's did not have a chance as the suburban streets were patrolled at the expense of the townships. It was a pretty sheltered life for whites.

After aparthied, noone was at least in the eyes of the authorities supposed to be favoured over the other because of race and suddenly crime was a hot issue,why, the criminals had no barrier to entering the formerly white suburbs.

But, incidentally, black people still bear the brunt of crime, and are the least vocal, may be they have learnt to roll with the blows, after all, years of repression should teach you something.

The issue of crime causes racism raised by one of the forumites is a non-starter. Crime affects blacks more and the perpetrator is usually black, does is mean that black will go around hating other blacks. The real issue is that crime, particularly if perpetrated by blacks, reinforces the sublimal racism that exists amongst some whites. Mbeki has a point there.

I was robbed by white thugs. I never looked at every white person as a potential thief. Instead I looked at anyone who behaved suspicioulsy around my house as a potential threat.

I now live in the east rand and of-course encounter racism from uncouth blue collar types, however, it does not mean that when I see every mlungu a mullet I become defensive. I become defensive if when I perceive someone trying to give me attitude because of my skin.

I have applied for a gun license, if I am going to base my perception of threat on race, damn, I will be taken-out, my motto is whenever they decide to give me the gun license, if I perceive a threat on my life or on my loved ones, I will shoot to kill regardless of race.

Stop perceiving crime as a white problem perpetuated by blacks because the darkies cannot rule. The rational would perceive it as a national problem perpetuated by those who do not want to work for their living.

 

[Gothan]

Eish, my comment was about the distribution of resources!!!

So what you are saying is that the purpose of the new government is to distribute crime amongst all its peoples equally?


#$%^& that

 

[LottaFun]

Black people have been living with crime for a long time, under Apartheid, so the slight reduction they see now is a positive thing and no need to complain.

Under Apartheid, the priveleged white class were well protected by the police, now that the crime has infiltrated previously white areas, they feel that crime has increased and need to complain

You see it's all about perception

Eish, my comment was about the distribution of resources!!!

Fair enough. I agree about the resources. If but only the resources existed!

 

[Jozi101]

Jozi please dont pretend to understand how 'most' white people were brought up, or any people for that matter. Again referendum, 70 % of this segment of the population did not vote for criminals pal, I for one voted for people.

How can you say the fear is inspired by racism, it is an intriguing statement and I would dearly like you to elaborate on this notion, really.

I would wager though that the genuine fear in the white communities is due to the increase in crime rates in the white suburbs, the nature of the crimes and the shear violence that they are carried out with.
There was a show on 3rd degree or special assignment that looked at this phenomenon.
The hatred seems to come from the other direction.

White people are not going into predominantly non white areas, breaking into peoples homes, raping them and pouring boiling water over them till they die boet.

Why is the government translating this fear into a racist argument?

Yes the police force looks after everyone now and not just a select few, Yes white people lived a privileged life in the past at the expense of others, this we know, but how do you and the president for that matter expect people to react that have to now barricade themselves indoors behind endless security when they never had to in the past because they fear for their lives, and rightly so. Nobody can dispute the crime figures in the suburbs, so why when people complain are they labeled racist, because that fits the political agenda or do I have it wrong.

Instead of pointing fingers and labelling people racist or not why not focus the energy on solving the problem ffs? start with Selebi.

I agree with you that they should be doing more to turn the situation around, and on the selebi point, but let's not be blind here. Crime is a symptom of the sick society that was created by apartheid, and i don't think the government really has an idea of how to solve it. During apartheid, the police were basically nothing but a huge criminal gang designed to bully the majority, and because of this a lot of people lost respect and regard for law enforcement officials. Add to that, the economic depravation that was inflicted upon so many milllions, and you have a problem.

Again, this is not an excuse but a possible explanation of the brutallity that accompanies some of the crimes.

 

[Sneeky]

I would love to see commando units doing patrols, in all areas, not to crack anyones skulls but to be a visible deterant for the would be criminal.

Trouble is the government did not like having commando units, they saw it as a threat. They even raided the war museum ffs. Paranoid I tell you.
White people in brown fatigues with automatic rifles is a no-no. As it is they are doing their best to disarm legal gunowners, myself included.

The farmers were also pleading at one stage for the commando units not to be disbanded for their own protection, but that all fell on deaf ears.

 

[Jozi101]

I have been avoiding this forum for a while because the views of the members really never change. They go round and round on the same issue.

I think the key thread in this forum was to moan about how the country is going to the dogs, however, since the country is economically healthy, the forumites had to moan about anything that "proves" that the country is going to the dogs. That something just happens to be crime because of course crime is prevalent in this country. Unfortunately, more and more people joined the forum who did not share this sentiment and this has lead to a continual argument about the same thing.

Look, crime has always been prevalent, it is only that, it was through aparthied, confined to the townships, everyone who lived in Gauteng townships will tell you about the reign of various criminal elements who where more sadistic than the rest, examples would include the notorious msomi gang, the spoilers, amajackroller's, makabasa etc. Crime was high and black life was cheap.

The white press did not report this as it was non-news as the victims were black and the tsotsi's did not have a chance as the suburban streets were patrolled at the expense of the townships. It was a pretty sheltered life for whites.

After aparthied, noone was at least in the eyes of the authorities supposed to be favoured over the other because of race and suddenly crime was a hot issue,why, the criminals had no barrier to entering the formerly white suburbs.

But, incidentally, black people still bear the brunt of crime, and are the least vocal, may be they have learnt to roll with the blows, after all, years of repression should teach you something.

The issue of crime causes racism raised by one of the forumites is a non-starter. Crime affects blacks more and the perpetrator is usually black, does is mean that black will go around hating other blacks. The real issue is that crime, particularly if perpetrated by blacks, reinforces the sublimal racism that exists amongst some whites. Mbeki has a point there.

I was robbed by white thugs. I never looked at every white person as a potential thief. Instead I looked at anyone who behaved suspicioulsy around my house as a potential threat.

I now live in the east rand and of-course encounter racism from uncouth blue collar types, however, it does not mean that when I see every mlungu a mullet I become defensive. I become defensive if when I perceive someone trying to give me attitude because of my skin.

I have applied for a gun license, if I am going to base my perception of threat on race, damn, I will be taken-out, my motto is whenever they decide to give me the gun license, if I perceive a threat on my life or on my loved ones, I will shoot to kill regardless of race.

Stop perceiving crime as a white problem perpetuated by blacks because the darkies cannot rule. The rational would perceive it as a national problem perpetuated by those who do not want to work for their living.

Here's a man who deserves a cigar. Cheers mnr!

 

[Gothan]

I agree with you that they should be doing more to turn the situation around, and on the selebi point, but let's not be blind here. Crime is a symptom of the sick society that was created by apartheid, and i don't think the government really has an idea of how to solve it. During apartheid, the police were basically nothing but a huge criminal gang designed to bully the majority, and because of this a lot of people lost respect and regard for law enforcement officials. Add to that, the economic depravation that was inflicted upon so many milllions, and you have a problem.

Again, this is not an excuse but a possible explanation of the brutallity that accompanies some of the crimes.

Here I agree with you, crime is a national problem, and that is what I am trying to say, and what everyone is trying to say, except the government, the government is stating that the only reason crime "is perceived as a problem" is because white people are complaining.

The point is crime itself is out of control, does not matter if its white on black, black on white, black on black, white on white, indian on black, white on indian etc.. Crime is the problem, and the way the government is dealing with crime, is by declaring that it is not a problem.

Now that p!sses me off!! I can see its a problem, I do not know of a single person in my circle that has not been touched by crime!! So according to the government, I am lying when I say that crime is a problem (rather then checking on why I am saying that it is a problem)