Mbeki may be right about whites

Jozi101 said:
I agree with you that they should be doing more to turn the situation around, and on the selebi point, but let's not be blind here. Crime is a symptom of the sick society that was created by apartheid, and i don't think the government really has an idea of how to solve it. During apartheid, the police were basically nothing but a huge criminal gang designed to bully the majority, and because of this a lot of people lost respect and regard for law enforcement officials. Add to that, the economic depravation that was inflicted upon so many milllions, and you have a problem.

Again, this is not an excuse but a possible explanation of the brutallity that accompanies some of the crimes.
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Stop looking at SA only. Stop giving apartheid the reason. Crime is ripe and growing in Africa, not only South Africa. That is why Africa is not developing. It has nothing to do with a specific cause. It has to do with the people and the way they do things. In Nigeria the people are stealing billions from oil companies. The oil companies belong to the Nigerian government, not to whites or colonialists.

It is black people stealing millions from other black people!
 
Sneeky said:
I would love to see commando units doing patrols, in all areas, not to crack anyones skulls but to be a visible deterant for the would be criminal.

Trouble is the government did not like having commando units, they saw it as a threat. They even raided the war museum ffs. Paranoid I tell you.
White people in brown fatigues with automatic rifles is a no-no. As it is they are doing their best to disarm legal gunowners, myself included.

The farmers were also pleading at one stage for the commando units not to be disbanded for their own protection, but that all fell on deaf ears.
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I fully realise this - you are quite right. But one can dream....
 
LottaFun said:
Stop looking at SA only. Stop giving apartheid the reason. Crime is ripe and growing in Africa, not only South Africa. That is why Africa is not developing. It has nothing to do with a specific cause. It has to do with the people and the way they do things. In Nigeria the people are stealing billions from oil companies. The oil companies belong to the Nigerian government, not to whites or colonialists.

It is black people stealing millions from other black people!
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However I don't think that's the kind of crime we are concerned about...here!
 
Sneeky said:
I would love to see commando units doing patrols, in all areas, not to crack anyones skulls but to be a visible deterant for the would be criminal.

Trouble is the government did not like having commando units, they saw it as a threat. They even raided the war museum ffs. Paranoid I tell you.
White people in brown fatigues with automatic rifles is a no-no. As it is they are doing their best to disarm legal gunowners, myself included.

The farmers were also pleading at one stage for the commando units not to be disbanded for their own protection, but that all fell on deaf ears.
Click to expand...

Keep dreaming.
 
Crime is crime. Stealing leads to higher taxes (police forces and so on). Higher taxes lead to poverty. Poverty leads to murder. It's a vicious circle.
 
Perception or not, the statistics point to a problem of incalculable proportions that the government is struggling to even comprehend. The following facts remain:
  • South Africa has one of the highest murder rates in the world (per capita we have the worlds most gun murders)
  • South Africa has the highest Rape rate per capita in the world
  • South Africa has the most carjackings of any country in the world (in fact, SA is one of a very few countries where this crime is recorded under its own category!

Despite these shocking statistics, South Africa's prosecution rate of under 8% quite simply proves that this government is not doing its job against crime.

I myself have been a regular victim of crime since being in this country, and my perception has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with the sick society your government accepts as its own. So blame whomever you choose, the statistics paints the real picture of crime in this place (and by all accounts a vast percentage of crime goes entirely unreported anyway).

The fact that the crime stats points you [south africans] out as one of the most violent countries on earth should piss you [south africans] off, instead you accept it and actually try and explain it away with blemished reasoning that equates to nothing more than common racism.
 
LottaFun said:
Stop looking at SA only. Stop giving apartheid the reason. Crime is ripe and growing in Africa, not only South Africa. That is why Africa is not developing. It has nothing to do with a specific cause. It has to do with the people and the way they do things. In Nigeria the people are stealing billions from oil companies. The oil companies belong to the Nigerian government, not to whites or colonialists.

It is black people stealing millions from other black people!
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Ok, so what is your point? That i'm black and therefore can't help but be a criminal? you've just proved my point then. You guys were raised to believe that the black man is inherently criminal. People said that i shouldn't pretend to know how you'all were brouhgt up but here's proof.

What does Nigeria have to do with me or this country? It's mostly black, so is South africa so.......Tah dah!
 
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LottaFun said:
Crime is crime. Stealing leads to higher taxes (police forces and so on). Higher taxes lead to poverty. Poverty leads to murder. It's a vicious circle.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking Fidentia scandal... we have our fair share of embezzlements and corruption...I think SA should be more concerned about crimes such as murder, rape, housebreaking, armed robbery, assault, carjacking, etc... The impact of such crimes on the victims is profound because of the violence involved...
 
Jozi101 said:
I agree with you that they should be doing more to turn the situation around, and on the selebi point, but let's not be blind here. Crime is a symptom of the sick society that was created by apartheid, and i don't think the government really has an idea of how to solve it. During apartheid, the police were basically nothing but a huge criminal gang designed to bully the majority, and because of this a lot of people lost respect and regard for law enforcement officials. Add to that, the economic depravation that was inflicted upon so many milllions, and you have a problem.

Again, this is not an excuse but a possible explanation of the brutality that accompanies some of the crimes.
Click to expand...
Crime is in every society, some more so than others, fast becoming rampant in our country. It is not just white or black areas, its on the streets, hijacks, cash in transit, shopping malls,etc. It affects everyone.

'Poverty' is a main driver for crime and we can I am sure all agree that apartheid has contributed to this driver in a BIG way, cannot dispute that at all.
I hear what you say Jozi, but why does this always end up with white people being accused of being racist when they try and make themselves heard?
It is baseless, not right and it is certainly irresponsible. imho.

There are most certainly elements within our society that are hellbent on resisting change, but they are by far the minority, and in a minority group.
The government use this argument to deflect attention from themselves, and drum up support instead of addressing the problems together with the communities of all races.
 
Bageloo said:
I'm thinking Fidentia scandal... we have our fair share of embezzlements and corruption...I think SA should be more concerned about crimes such as murder, rape, housebreaking, armed robbery, assault, carjacking, etc... The impact of such crimes on the victims is profound because of the violence involved...
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Exactly. Crime is rampant on every level in South Africa - from fraud and corruption right at the top to violent murder and rape. What really crumbles my feta is that South Africa's elite crime fighting unit invariably mostly works on high profiled fraud & corruption cases, with no added value to the person in the street.
 
BobbyMac said:
Exactly. Crime is rampant on every level in South Africa - from fraud and corruption right at the top to violent murder and rape. What really crumbles my feta is that South Africa's elite crime fighting unit invariably mostly works on high profiled fraud & corruption cases, with no added value to the person in the street.
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That's what it was set up for.
 
Jozi101 said:
Ok, so what is your point? That i'm black and therefore can't help but be a criminal? you've just proved my point then. You guys were raised to believe that the black man is inherently criminal. People said that i shouldn't pretend to know how you'all were brouhgt up but here's proof.

What does Nigeria have to do with me or this country? It's mostly black, so is South africa so.......Tah dah!
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How the hell did you bring he's statement to your conclusion?? He spoke about crime being an african problem. You know there are white people living in africa also...they are called AFRICANS!!

And you also get white criminals in africa, a lot actually
 
Gothan said:
How the hell did you bring he's statement to your conclusion?? He spoke about crime being an african problem. You know there are white people living in africa also...they are called AFRICANS!!

And you also get white criminals in africa, a lot actually
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They're not called europeans? Ok sorry!:D
 
@ Gothan - and a host of others who have posted similair ideas

The President, Safety and Security Minister, National Police Commissioner, and a host of other senior officials have all acknowledged that crime is a problem, the falsehood, miscommunication or propaganda that is spread that they believe it is not a problem is just that

Read the President's State of the Nation Address please

The explanation is that Whites and Blacks see crime differently, because of the history in this country, nevertheless Government has put concrete steps in place to counter the problem of crime in this country
 
Jozi101 said:
They're not called europeans? Ok sorry!:D
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Well I'm white, and i have never seen europe, nor has my father including he's father. I was born here, as well as my father, as well as he's. So I guess that makes me european right?
 
Jozi101 said:
Keep dreaming.
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Yup - we dream that this incompetent govt might one day start performing. Stupid optimists.

Don't forget that a large part of the ex-SADF ( ie: the "apartheid" one ) ( including conscripts ) remain armed thanks to the cheap military surplus firearms made available to us. We might be getting on a little, but I can still field-strip and re-assemble an R1 blindfolded, and you would not want to be firing at me within 400 metres.
 
xtermin8or said:
The President, Safety and Security Minister, National Police Commissioner, and a host of other senior officials have all acknowledged that crime is a problem, the falsehood, miscommunication or propaganda that is spread that they believe it is not a problem is just that
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With all due respect, I can still see the trenches in the soil leading up to the waterhole where this horse was dragged kicking and screaming.
The bad press (or propaganda as you put it) was largely created by themselves.
 
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