Microsoft and Apple rivalry heats up

[UrBaN963]

Kindly die in a fire. Cheers.

That's a terrible retort.

I get that you don't like the Apple and it seems obscenely priced to you. That's fair, it is a lot of money. I wouldn't say it's expensive, as you get a lot for your money. But it is a lot of money, especially when rolling out en masse.

And as with all things IT, the use case determines the hardware and software. The Mac won't be right for every situation. But they are great in many situations and will only get better as ARM support is increased. As it stands, they have no peer in terms of pure performance/battery life, which is a big deal to a lot of people. It's also only the first generation, next-gen ones should be even better. I wouldn't spend R18k on the receptionist's PC, but for a Dev? R18k is what, a week of programming hours? Less?

 

[SauRoNZA]

Hardware is a factor in any purchase.
Devs are particular about keyboards of any kind Apple, mechanical etc.

Saving costs at the expense of those who perform the work.

Oh sorry I thought you literally meant like virtual on screen keyboard.

But yeah many bring their own keyboard and mouse anyway or put in a special request for one so that wouldn’t change much.

In fact we’ve change to a subsidised model now where you can boy whatever you want for peripherals and extras to make WFH better.

 

[SauRoNZA]

.. I wouldn't spend R18k on the receptionists PC, but for a Dev? R18k is what, a week of programming hours? Less?

Exactly this.

I can only think that he/she/they can’t put it into the bigger context of things.

We aren’t even approaching a fraction of a monthly salary for the people working on these machines 8+ hours a day and then it operates for 3+ years at that.

Software costs us way more per user than hardware does. I’d say it’s probably the same for software in a year that a Mac costs over three going over it in my head loosely.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Lol and now deleted the very terrible sinking with the ship white flag.

What a laugh.

Apple clearly bullied them as a child or something.

 

[UrBaN963]

Lol and now deleted the very terrible sinking with the ship white flag.

What a laugh.

Apple clearly bullied them as a child or something.

Apple touched him on his Wndows update.

 

[|tera|]

Circle jerkers.
Reporting my post because you are little bitches.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Circle jerkers.
Reporting my post because you are little bitches.

Dude, you and I have had our run ins and disagreements over time, but almost everything that people are saying here is entirely valid and applicable for Large and Enterprise scale companies. You need to calm down and actually listen to what people are saying with an open mind at times even though it goes against everything you know.

A R18k- R30k laptop capex that ensures a pleasant and effective experience for the user/developer and a unified management experience for Operations is worth its weight in gold beyond just the balance sheet. Never ever just look at the pure rands and cents of a decision. Its something I am faced with often, there are ways costs could be slashed quite significantly but the intangible effects of that cost cutting would have severe on-run consequences that are hard to quantify but will be felt very very quickly.

 

[|tera|]

Dude, you and I have had our run ins and disagreements over time, but almost everything that people are saying here is entirely valid and applicable for Large and Enterprise scale companies. You need to calm down and actually listen to what people are saying with an open mind at times even though it goes against everything you know.

A R18k- R30k laptop capex that ensures a pleasant and effective experience for the user/developer and a unified management experience for Operations is worth its weight in gold beyond just the balance sheet. Never ever just look at the pure rands and cents of a decision. Its something I am faced with often, there are ways costs could be slashed quite significantly but the intangible effects of that cost cutting would have severe on-run consequences that are hard to quantify but will be felt very very quickly.

No worries. My reaction was due to their constant gang-up tactics. I was willing to talk about it and hear why so much money needs to be spent. It turned into a personal attack against me.

Anyway. You are correct with your p.o.v. No sarcasm intended.

 

[2026]

Not in cloud infrastructure, talent for cloud infrastructure.
There’s a difference.

Oh, so a rivalry for skilled workers.

This article feels like a lot of fluff.

 

[ToxicBunny]

No worries. My reaction was due to their constant gang-up tactics. I was willing to talk about it and hear why so much money needs to be spent. It turned into a personal attack against me.

Anyway. You are correct with your p.o.v. No sarcasm intended.

I don't necessarily think it was gang-up tactics per se, its possibly more a case of two different view points missing each other entirely and getting frustrated at not finding the common ground. You think R18k for a laptop (or even R30k) is a lot of money. For someone like me, in my work world, R30k for a laptop is chump change. Even 100 of them is but a drop in the ocean in many ways, and the benefits they bring are easily worth their cost in a matter of months, if not weeks.

User experiences are also wildly different in terms of how we factor them in. I am making an assumption here, so don't jump down my throat . In your working world, you are probably working with minimally distributed teams, so an RDP/Thin Client solution may be acceptable because you can sort of unify and manage the experience, but for many of us with nationally/globally distributed teams those sort of options just don't fly when the latency for them can vary between 10ms and 350m and the experience can actually be enough to make a user resign.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Oh, so a rivalry for skilled workers.

This article feels like a lot of fluff.

Even in that regard, for much of MS Cloud Infrastructure staff, I doubt Apple is their primary worry. AWS and Google yes, Apple not so much in my opinion. Apple have a very "basic" cloud platform really, so would be stealing DC staff, and even then I'm not entirely sure that the experience in an Azure DC would translate into an Apple DC because they would be technically totally different in how they are put together.

Unless Apple have some very clever technology underlying their iCloud offering that somehow looks like the other cloud providers solutions and they're just not monetizing that solution in a similar fashion.

 

[CataclysmZA]

Even if you could save money with a remote instance, the software licenses will easily outstrip what you could spend on the hardware.

It's worse on servers with remote instancing. Companies like Oracle will charge you for a license that matches what the server can do, not what your use is per user.

Not only is it cheaper to license software per user and buy the user the hardware they'd need anyway, you also lose a lot of work to network issues, latency, and lag when competing for resources.

Remote sessions have their use, but being a fast, fluid, and productive dev environment is not one of them.

 

[DA-LION-619]

Even in that regard, for much of MS Cloud Infrastructure staff, I doubt Apple is their primary worry. AWS and Google yes, Apple not so much in my opinion. Apple have a very "basic" cloud platform really, so would be stealing DC staff, and even then I'm not entirely sure that the experience in an Azure DC would translate into an Apple DC because they would be technically totally different in how they are put together.

Unless Apple have some very clever technology underlying their iCloud offering that somehow looks like the other cloud providers solutions and they're just not monetizing that solution in a similar fashion.

MS has a multi-cloud offering, basically using Azure to mange everything across all your cloud environments.
In a similar way Apple does that with iCloud, using Azure or AWS, someone else for China I think Tencent.

 

[ToxicBunny]

MS has a multi-cloud offering, basically using Azure to mange everything across all your cloud environments.
In a similar way Apple does that with iCloud, using Azure or AWS, someone else for China I think Tencent.

TIL...

I thought iCloud was built on Apples own infrastructure...

 

[phoneJunky]

Our entry level laptop at my work cost more than R40K.

Also if you want to make a like for like comparison look at a place that sells both type of machines

Search results for: 'products computers notebooks tablets notebooks professional high end'

www.incredible.co.za

Search results for: 'products computers notebooks tablets notebooks gaming'

www.incredible.co.za

Search results for: 'products computers notebooks tablets apple macbook'

www.incredible.co.za

The M1 Macbook seems to compare favorably to me there.

 

[konfab]

Politically, a lot of people love a benevolent authoritarian controlling every aspect of their lives.
Apple simply appeals to that tendency in technology.

If you don't buy into the way that Apple wants you to think about their software, you will hate it. If you do buy into it, you will love it.

When I had to use a macbook pro for work, it ironically got me to move more of my workflow into terminal-based applications because of how much I hated working with their software.

 

[prod]

Politically, a lot of people love a benevolent authoritarian controlling every aspect of their lives.
Apple simply appeals to that tendency in technology.

If you don't buy into the way that Apple wants you to think about their software, you will hate it. If you do buy into it, you will love it.

When I had to use a macbook pro for work, it ironically got me to move more of my workflow into terminal-based applications because of how much I hated working with their software.

This is like "needlessly gendered" except everything is "needlessly politicised". Srsly, it's just a fkn laptop

 

[konfab]

This is like "needlessly gendered" except everything is "needlessly politicised". Srsly, it's just a fkn laptop

I said it appeals to that tendency in people. It is a good explanation of why people enjoy their products.

edit:
Maybe there is some hope for it:

Linux has been ported to run on Apple’s M1 Macs

A special version of Ubuntu can now run natively on M1 Macs

www.theverge.com

 

[ToxicBunny]

I said it appeals to that tendency in people. It is a good explanation of why people enjoy their products.

edit:
Maybe there is some hope for it:

Linux has been ported to run on Apple’s M1 Macs

A special version of Ubuntu can now run natively on M1 Macs

www.theverge.com

No, it appeals to people because its a good quality product, that has good technical specs and performs very well. Not for some random "feels" crap.

 

[UrBaN963]

Politically, a lot of people love a benevolent authoritarian controlling every aspect of their lives.
Apple simply appeals to that tendency in technology.

If you don't buy into the way that Apple wants you to think about their software, you will hate it. If you do buy into it, you will love it.

When I had to use a macbook pro for work, it ironically got me to move more of my workflow into terminal-based applications because of how much I hated working with their software.

I use an Apple iPhone, but a Dell Win10 laptop.

Am I schizophrenic?