Mobile operators to explain complaints

[vodacom3g]

When they would rather put that profit into their own back pockets instead of into infrastructure and increasing capacity.

All too often top execs look after their Swiss Banc instead of their bread and butter.

No service, no money, nothing to put in back pocket. Think about it.

 

[Weasley]

No service, no money, nothing to put in back pocket. Think about it.

that would be true if we didnt have any databandels and just one cheap rate

 

[Mouse]

Common MTN problems I've had recently:

"not enough airtime to make the call" even though I had almost R100 airtime. buying more airtime made the error go away

"call not allowed" no solution to this f#ck up, and it happens to everyone in my home. Some people say restarting the phone will fix it, but that doesnt work.

Another problem I've experienced is that after using gprs, outgoing calls stop working properly, and while I'm online incoming calls don't work, the people that phone me complain about my phone being off all the time.

Yet another problem I have is that my 3G almost never works, at best I get switched to 3g with 1 bar signal for a few seconds, which causes my gprs connection to go on hold while it switches to 3G, then it switches back to gprs because it loses the 3g signal.

I'm quite tired of speaking to call center staff that seem to be trained to always offer to send me my phone settings, YET AGAIN. as if I deleted them to create problems for myself

I eventually managed to get a get a fault logged with mtn by complaining on hello peter.

So far they called me, offered to send me an aerial to try and boost the signal, I asked for them to send someone over to check what's wrong at my house when I get leave, I booked leave and called them, but the person I was assigned to get this problem solved was also on leave at the time (around the recent long weekend)

I was also told that "mtn does not send people out to resolve issues" by the person I spoke to when I last called.

I give up.

 

[Roadrunner]

Why is there still a backhaul crisis when everybody is laying fiber like there is no tomorrow?

 

[Prof.Merlin]

I actually expect the providers to refund for SMS's that are delayed and phone-calls that are disconnected (beyond the tower) automatically.

Dont know if it still exists...but a few years ago, on vodacom, if your call is dropped, you dial a number and it reconnects you to the last person and gives you the first minute free.

Dunno if it still exists....could have also been in my dreams as well

 

[Prof.Merlin]

Common MTN problems I've had recently:

"not enough airtime to make the call" even though I had almost R100 airtime. buying more airtime made the error go away

Thinking of that...a new thing with virgin mobile:
Sometimes i try go onto the internet and get a red page with black writing saying "You have insuffisant funds in your account. Please recharge and try again". I still have over R100 in my account

 

[Ecco]

As this forum likes to point out so often, the network operators make a lot of money by providing voice and data services.

So it stands to reason that the networks will do their utmost to make sure you can make a call or eat up your data bundle as quickly as possible. If you can't, there is a direct revenue loss.

You make some valid points, but in comment to the above. With dropped calls, the message you wanted to convey and ultimately the reason you made the call does not get completely conveyed, and you often have to start the whole conversation again. What would have taken 1 call if there were no issues, now takes 2 calls, sometimes even 3 or more. So you revenue is still increasing.

That said, I dont believe this is some sort of means the networks use deliberately. But these issues must be resolved, because the consumer ends up paying for the 2 calls when one would have sufficed and to the network, 2 calls are better then 1.

 

[vodacom3g]

Zikzakly

Asterix and the Laurel Wreath?

 

[vodacom3g]

Why is there still a backhaul crisis when everybody is laying fiber like there is no tomorrow?

It'll take years of laying fibre before it start eating into the amount of copper in the ground.

 

[vodacom3g]

You make some valid points, but in comment to the above. With dropped calls, the message you wanted to convey and ultimately the reason you made the call does not get completely conveyed, and you often have to start the whole conversation again. What would have taken 1 call if there were no issues, now takes 2 calls, sometimes even 3 or more. So you revenue is still increasing.

That said, I dont believe this is some sort of means the networks use deliberately. But these issues must be resolved, because the consumer ends up paying for the 2 calls when one would have sufficed and to the network, 2 calls are better then 1.

Let me check on this.

 

[Lazy]

Sometimes things really just break.

Or gets unplugged

I suspect a number of things (mostly independently) went wrong the last few weeks (from one network who did have a problem over a weekend to a bank that delivered SMS's late to the latest Idols fiasco) and the combination of these did create the impression of a 'general' problem.

I couldn't agree with you more, though you can't deny that quality of service has dropped significantly in the last few months. Maybe quality of support or quality of answers has improved, but not service (yet anyways)

I hardly ever get anything other than GPRS signal, which is weird given my location. Last week I was blessed with 3G for a full 4 hours. At home I've seen the same trend, I used to have proper 3G signal, now GPRS at best.

 

[Basilrsa]

Generally agree with V3G, but.......

Vodacom 3G
"Can't speak for the other networks, but from the Vodacom sub-forum there is an increase in throughput complaints and we're busy looking into it. Otherwise, it's about the same as normal. Which does not mean everything is perfect."

Generally I agree with your views posted on this thread but this is this problem:
Vodacom does not have an efficient way of interaction with their customers on matters relating to data service delivery problems. The only way to lodge a complaint is through the 155 service.
That service is scary to say the least.
Confirmations of complaints logged are not sent out, so there is no follow up.
I find the help desk personnel are poorly trained and mostly do not know and understand the basics of the technical beast.
The appointment of young go getters according the statement made by Mr Uys does not inspire confidence if these helpdesk employees are seen as the face of Vodacom.

Suggestion:
Make a sub section on your Homepage available where known network problems are posted by VC.
The reaction and action to these problems must also be posted.
Clear the problems as they are resolved.
New problems can be e-mailed or SMS'd directly by consumers to VC after reading the existing problems.

The advantage is that you relieve your help desk of most of the network related complaints and leave them to assist with general problems.

I understand this can be a mammoth task if your network is unstable or over subscribed in any particular area. It could also expose problems you wish to keep from your customers and the opposition.
But I believe a potential subscriber should know beforehand what level of service they could expect in their area and then make the contract decision.
(Cellphones are different here if used for voice by virtue of their usage nature)

Now that VC has covered the country with as many towers as possible and that most of the towers are equipped with the latest HSDPA and HSUPA equipment, why not pay attention to the areas where the towers are known to be under pressure due to volume growth of users in those areas.

Consumer satisfaction should be the aim here, and this means continuosly examining changing demographics, and adjusting the technical goalposts in order to satisfy the changing needs of their captured market.

Wireless has distinct advantages and disadvantages when measured against fixed line ADSL. So far we have seen greater numbers of consumers moving to various wireless offerings due to the poor performance of Telkom's fixed line offerings.
If these wireless operators are to keep this momentum going, then they must offer ongoing great service delivery to their existing customers to ensure the migratory nature of their market is stabilised.

All we can do if wait

 

[dominic]

ICASA

So, a question to maybe think about. What is an acceptable failure rate for a system like a mobile network operated by the likes of MTN, Vodacom and Cell-C?

Is it 5%, 1%, 0.1%?

ICASA bashing to follow:

as i recall ICASA previously said that the quality of service standards that apply to the provision of these services

‘“We are consistently in contact with them, to make sure they are adhering to regulations.

While he says the monitoring is not a formal investigation into the service providers, the authority has given them guidelines for minimum service levels. These are prescribed by the End-User and Subscriber Service Charter, which is in the process of being finalised.

The regulations require that operators' networks show an uptime of over 95%. Operators are also expected to have a 48-hour turnaround on consumer problems.

The mobile operators are required to submit a report to the authority every three months that indicates problems and resolutions. According to ICASA, the next reports are expected soon and the authority will check what resolutions the operators have come up with.

The authority suspects the trouble may also stem from network upgrades that the operators are all implementing. Complaints of a similar nature in the past have been attributed to network changes and upgrades.”

this response indicates just how ineffective ICASA is in its role of regulator of communication services in South Africa. ICASA refers to regulations which have to be adhered to and then states that these are still in the process of being finalised!

This is not possible and the truth is that there is currently a huge gap in regulating quality of service issues due to the debacle surrounding the finalisation of the End-user and Subscriber Service Charter Regulations.

These have been published twice in final format and withdrawn twice after industry indicated that they were not correct either in terms of their substance or the procedure which had been followed.

The regulations therefore do not require that operators have uptime of 95% or a 48 hour turnaround time for answering consumer complaints. Neither are the mobile operators required to file reports every three months. These obligations were set out in the old Mobile Cellular Telecommunications Service (MCTS) licences awarded to Vodacom, MTN and Cell C under the Telecommunications Act – when these licences were converted the quality of service obligations fell away and ICASA have not managed to finalise the End-User and Subscriber Service Charter Regulations which are intended to ensure that these obligations continue to apply.

It is anticipated that these regulations will be finalised towards the end of 2009 but, considering their history, there is every chance they will end up in the courts. In the meantime the South Africa consumer should continue to not expect ICASA to act in their interests … .

 

[vodacom3g]

Vodacom 3G
"Can't speak for the other networks, but from the Vodacom sub-forum there is an increase in throughput complaints and we're busy looking into it. Otherwise, it's about the same as normal. Which does not mean everything is perfect."

Generally I agree with your views posted on this thread but this is this problem:
Vodacom does not have an efficient way of interaction with their customers on matters relating to data service delivery problems. The only way to lodge a complaint is through the 155 service.
That service is scary to say the least.
Confirmations of complaints logged are not sent out, so there is no follow up.
I find the help desk personnel are poorly trained and mostly do not know and understand the basics of the technical beast.
The appointment of young go getters according the statement made by Mr Uys does not inspire confidence if these helpdesk employees are seen as the face of Vodacom.

Suggestion:
Make a sub section on your Homepage available where known network problems are posted by VC.
The reaction and action to these problems must also be posted.
Clear the problems as they are resolved.
New problems can be e-mailed or SMS'd directly by consumers to VC after reading the existing problems.

The advantage is that you relieve your help desk of most of the network related complaints and leave them to assist with general problems.

I understand this can be a mammoth task if your network is unstable or over subscribed in any particular area. It could also expose problems you wish to keep from your customers and the opposition.
But I believe a potential subscriber should know beforehand what level of service they could expect in their area and then make the contract decision.
(Cellphones are different here if used for voice by virtue of their usage nature)

Now that VC has covered the country with as many towers as possible and that most of the towers are equipped with the latest HSDPA and HSUPA equipment, why not pay attention to the areas where the towers are known to be under pressure due to volume growth of users in those areas.

Consumer satisfaction should be the aim here, and this means continuosly examining changing demographics, and adjusting the technical goalposts in order to satisfy the changing needs of their captured market.

Wireless has distinct advantages and disadvantages when measured against fixed line ADSL. So far we have seen greater numbers of consumers moving to various wireless offerings due to the poor performance of Telkom's fixed line offerings.
If these wireless operators are to keep this momentum going, then they must offer ongoing great service delivery to their existing customers to ensure the migratory nature of their market is stabilised.

All we can do if wait

Some good points, thanks.

We often debate the on-line network status idea but it has some challenges.

One being that a very small % of the user base will actually access it. Most likely a fraction of a percentage. Should we rather not put the time, money and effort into 155, for example?

It runs the risk of painting the wrong picture. Say there is a DNS problem and it is being attended to. Now someone can't connect (for some other reason, maybe they don't have money). If they look at the site they may decide not to call 155 and rather wait it out. But it might mean their problem is never addressed.

The site won't be able to hold the resolution down to specific towers, links or areas, so the data will have to be rolled up to a higher level. This will mask area specific problems, i.e. you'll see 'green' for your area while you cannot work and you'll turn red yourself

We can't really push all the events, there are millions per day. And most would not make sense.

We need all the calls into 155. This builds a much better picture and will lead to the creation of 'master faults' when more general problems occur.

So, an automated fault display system is difficult. Rather we must ensure 155 does a good job. But it's a challenge in its own right.

 

[supersunbird]

...

The other day I phoned my friend who is using my one VC sim card on a number I have had for 12 years from my other VC contract sim and it said, "The number you have dailed does not exist". A few minutes later the call went throught fine... Vodacom need to fess up that there is something going on and that they don't know what it is and stop blamming handsets that have never had problems before!

 

[vodacom3g]

The other day I phoned my friend who is using my one VC sim card on a number I have had for 12 years from my other VC contract sim and it said, "The number you have dailed does not exist". A few minutes later the call went throught fine... Vodacom need to fess up that there is something going on and that they don't know what it is and stop blamming handsets that have never had problems before!

Yup, I've had that one before as well.

 

[Fury001]

every bloody day it takes ages for my sms to get sent or recieved.. my cell says messages are pending, i call recipient then while i am call sms will go through.. explain this ***

 

[baldric]

no... there really IS a general networks problem

I know I'm going to sound like just another whiney South African here, but I'm pretty tired of the excuses being made about this. Yes, things break, but I can't believe that it can be that often. Yes, the growth of the customer base is high... but there is a lot of conflicting statistics out there. Less than a year ago, one of the providers published a report (I think it was MTN) saying that they believed SA had pretty much reached saturation point in how many people used cellphones. (Obviously that doesn't mean the usage wouldn't increase). I just can't believe that the operators cannot predict this growth, and there is no excuse for being unprepared here. Its not like they aren't making money either.
I and many friends have been experiencing horrendous quality for years now, in dropped calls, poor quality at times, automatic redirection to voicemail for no reason, SMS's being delivered late, the list goes on.
In fact, its safe to say that in my experience over the past 2 years, my network availability has been unavailable a minimum of about 5% of the time. Minimum!? I'd like to know whether I can get a 5% discount on my contract? Seeing as the operator is not fulfilling their contractual obligation?
Its time for cell operators to stand up, grow some balls, commit to decent quality of service, and maybe try observe some standards. And stop blaming consumers: aren't you embarassed??

 

[vodacom3g]

every bloody day it takes ages for my sms to get sent or recieved.. my cell says messages are pending, i call recipient then while i am call sms will go through.. explain this ***

If on Vodacom, can you PM me the two numbers and the approximate time it happened.

Which device/handset, by the way?

 

[vodacom3g]

I know I'm going to sound like just another whiney South African here, but I'm pretty tired of the excuses being made about this. Yes, things break, but I can't believe that it can be that often. Yes, the growth of the customer base is high... but there is a lot of conflicting statistics out there. Less than a year ago, one of the providers published a report (I think it was MTN) saying that they believed SA had pretty much reached saturation point in how many people used cellphones. (Obviously that doesn't mean the usage wouldn't increase). I just can't believe that the operators cannot predict this growth, and there is no excuse for being unprepared here. Its not like they aren't making money either.
I and many friends have been experiencing horrendous quality for years now, in dropped calls, poor quality at times, automatic redirection to voicemail for no reason, SMS's being delivered late, the list goes on.
In fact, its safe to say that in my experience over the past 2 years, my network availability has been unavailable a minimum of about 5% of the time. Minimum!? I'd like to know whether I can get a 5% discount on my contract? Seeing as the operator is not fulfilling their contractual obligation?
Its time for cell operators to stand up, grow some balls, commit to decent quality of service, and maybe try observe some standards. And stop blaming consumers: aren't you embarassed??

Who is blaming the consumers?