Mobile operators to explain complaints

Heres one for you V3G. I signed a new contract the Friday before the long weekend 1st May and got my phone (5800xm)on a Vodacome Talk 130. My contract was only activated on the 5th (understandable because of long weekend - vodashops fault not vodacom) and low and behold with only phoning I think 4-5 people (So 4 to 5 people have my new number) I get a spam SMS "GEMS: Access the newly increased medical subsidy. Want to know how? SMS your PERSAL number to 0834504367. Reply 'no' to opt out." This SMS was from 0727304774 on 12th May. How in the space of 7 days did they get my number? And now I must opt out for something I didnt have anything to do with?
 
km2 said:
That's what I was thinking, but dominic's post made it sound like he was really pushing for ICASA to make that 95% regulation to be actively enforced, like that would make any kind of difference at all. Just going for enforcement of 95% is useless, because any provider would have collapsed long before then from pure market forces. They need to actually raise the SLA to a real level (carrier grade may be a bit high, but something with some teeth).
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no
95% is what the networks were pushing for at ICASA
 
vodacom3g said:
:rolleyes:

The problem with these areas is not necessarily that you need new customers to make the new towers profitable. The people already have handsets but cannot use them in certain areas due to lack of coverage.

Take the Constantia example. One can assume that every household in that area will have multiple handsets. And they'll use them when they are at the office, the shops, etc.

But when they're home (a fair % of the day) they cannot use them. Thus they don't make calls and there's the revenue loss.

The Big Bay development down here is another prime example. Massive new complexes are going up that will attract thousands of new residents. They all want to make calls and clearly the infrastructure there won't support so many new users. But getting new sites approved turns out to be a nightmare. Everyone wants coverage but they all want the tower in the neighboring estate, not theirs.....:rolleyes:
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Revenue cannot be lost until you actually had it.:p

There's always a solution, but it may not be the cheapest one. How do they provide coverage in rural areas where distances between bases are huge?
 
dyanamo said:
Heres one for you V3G. I signed a new contract the Friday before the long weekend 1st May and got my phone (5800xm)on a Vodacome Talk 130. My contract was only activated on the 5th (understandable because of long weekend - vodashops fault not vodacom) and low and behold with only phoning I think 4-5 people (So 4 to 5 people have my new number) I get a spam SMS "GEMS: Access the newly increased medical subsidy. Want to know how? SMS your PERSAL number to 0834504367. Reply 'no' to opt out." This SMS was from 0727304774 on 12th May. How in the space of 7 days did they get my number? And now I must opt out for something I didnt have anything to do with?
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Could well be that the number was recycled. Or they could just be hitting a range of numbers.

Unfortunately the ECT Act states that you can be spammed once but must be provided with an opt-out option and that such an opt-out request must be honoured.
 
vodacom3g said:
Could well be that the number was recycled. Or they could just be hitting a range of numbers.

Unfortunately the ECT Act states that you can be spammed once but must be provided with an opt-out option and that such an opt-out request must be honoured.
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Thanks for the reply
 
You make some valid points V3G. However, I don't see an attitude of "we will try to sort it out." Rather, it's "don't blame us. It's the homeowners association/teenagers/your basement".

Why is it that the general perception of any cellular service is that it is of poor quality, overly expensive and not the mobile joy that the advertising wants to portray? Surely everyone isn't living in a ditch, covered in concrete, underwater with low battery?

If you can't handle the load, then stop selling more numbers. It's simple. You are angering more and more of your existing subscribers by signing up someone new.

Something MCO's should try: Admit fault. Engage with customers. Make it easy to get refunds on poor service. Apologise. Treat your customers like allies, not as annoying people that ruin your day complaining.

When is the network the worst? Between 8 and 9pm. That's when offpeak starts. Some innovative thinking is required to reduce the traffic spike at that time.

There are many challenges to running such a huge network, but the F off attitude just doesn't cut it anymore. I'd like to see media statements from MCO's such as "We apologise for the network problems that have upset our valued customers. To say sorry, we would like to offer all of you 5 free smses. We promise to work harder to be better."

Who wouldn't accept that sort of humble apology?
 
Gaz{M} said:
You make some valid points V3G. However, I don't see an attitude of "we will try to sort it out." Rather, it's "don't blame us. It's the homeowners association/teenagers/your basement".

Why is it that the general perception of any cellular service is that it is of poor quality, overly expensive and not the mobile joy that the advertising wants to portray? Surely everyone isn't living in a ditch, covered in concrete, underwater with low battery?

If you can't handle the load, then stop selling more numbers. It's simple. You are angering more and more of your existing subscribers by signing up someone new.

Something MCO's should try: Admit fault. Engage with customers. Make it easy to get refunds on poor service. Apologise. Treat your customers like allies, not as annoying people that ruin your day complaining.

When is the network the worst? Between 8 and 9pm. That's when offpeak starts. Some innovative thinking is required to reduce the traffic spike at that time.

There are many challenges to running such a huge network, but the F off attitude just doesn't cut it anymore. I'd like to see media statements from MCO's such as "We apologise for the network problems that have upset our valued customers. To say sorry, we would like to offer all of you 5 free smses. We promise to work harder to be better."

Who wouldn't accept that sort of humble apology?
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Gaz, I fail to see where, Vodacom, at least, have said 'it's not our fault'. Read my posts again. I said there are many contributing factors, from real failures to issues like coverage and handset problems.

If you follow my posts on this forum, you'll see I'm the first one to say if Vodacom made a stuff up. And we do get it right to make stuff ups, trust me.

But it's also my job to try and highlight the various reasons why you might have connectivity issues and every reason I discussed are true and produce a fair number of failures.

And, trust me, there is a strong culture of sorting out network problems within Vodacom. People's jobs and salaries depend on it.
 
vodacom3g said:
The issues with back-haul capacity is one of the primary reasons this forum exists and the problem will be there for a long time still.

And during all of this the subscriber base keeps on growing. So it's a very difficult situation for everybody. Demand is still rising but the ability to service it cannot always grow at the same rate.
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I think that this is key problem... the operators have over-contended their own networks. If it is not possible to service the increasing demand, it makes no business sense to continue to attempt to supply the demand. Over time the quality of service has to drop until such time as the infrastructure development catches up. I think that this is what is happening now. There has been such burgeoning demand, both for voice services and for data that many of the nodes in the Mobile operators' networks are simply overloaded.

It will take some serious self-reflection by these operators to admit this and reduce their offering until it can be serviced correctly. Their present argument doesn't hold water in my opinion, and it is disturbing that the consumer is still expected to pay for low quality voice calls, dropped calls, network unavailability, poor data throughput and delayed or missing text messages (the charges for SMS are already criminal IMO).
 
vodacom3g said:
I'm often amazed by some of the accusations thrown at the networks. For example MTN got accused of refusing to build towers in Constantia in the Cape (cellhell.co.za) and Vodacom had a similar accusation about coverage in Fishhoek.
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To my knowledge the coverage in Fish Hoek is just fine, but 3G access is problematic. Apart from Imhoffs Gift's lack of decent coverage, all the surrounding areas have little to complain about. The only problem I have experienced lately is the slow delivery of messages (and maybe 5 messages not being delivered at all per week).
 
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Well the thing is look at what is happening in the USA with AT&T and their 3G. It's obvious our local companies are not really planning [or expecting] the amount of growth until it takes the network down.

Now in contrast AT&T is clearly locking down their services left right and center to prevent their network hitting it's limits....it's equally infuriating the users when they are denied certain services, but maybe it's the route to go at the expense of giving 80% of the people a decent service?

Some action regarding what i'm talking about:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/12/atandt-issues-official-statement-on-slingplayers-3g-blackout-for/
May 12th 2009

AT&T issues official statement on SlingPlayer's 3G blackout for iPhone

Sweating bullets over network saturation, are we? AT&T's obviously taking a good helping of heat today over Sling's rock-and-a-hard-place decision to remove 3G streaming capability from its SlingPlayer Mobile build for the iPhone -- a decision that gets at the very heart of several hot-button issues plaguing AT&T and Apple alike -- and the carrier understandably felt the need to release an official statement to address the situation. Unfortunately, it prompts as many questions as it offers answers. It starts off simply enough, stating that apps like SlingPlayer could create congestion on the network that denies services to others -- and while a truly trivial number of users own Slingboxes, we understand what they're getting at; no amount of tweaking or fudging of a modern HSPA network can withstand the traffic onslaught generated by wildly popular streaming video services.
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o, a question to maybe think about. What is an acceptable failure rate for a system like a mobile network operated by the likes of MTN, Vodacom and Cell-C?

Is it 5%, 1%, 0.1%?
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I don't really get this question.

0% is acceptable to me.

I have no time for the idea of acceptable failure rates. If I pay full fee for something I want full service - if not refund me for the service I didn't get.
 
daveza said:
I don't really get this question.

0% is acceptable to me.

I have no time for the idea of acceptable failure rates. If I pay full fee for something I want full service - if not refund me for the service I didn't get.
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But also unrealistic.

Is everything else in your life perfect? Nothing ever breaks down? Your car always starts, never needs a service? Your PC never hangs and software always work 100%? You work 40 hours a week at 100% productivity? You never slack off and take some time out? And whatever you do is always 100% perfect?

You clearly live in a perfect world. ;) Us mere mortals can just stand in awe.

Unfortunately in the real world, run by real people using real products, things do go wrong.

The question was an attempt to open a civilised debate about what is deemed acceptable.

I would strongly suggest you do not use any technology of any kind. Don't use your PC and don't post on this forum. Throw your mobile away and switch off your TV and decoder. All these things suffer from failures from time to time and cannot ever match up to your 0% failure rate expectation.
 
I was expecting that kind of response.

The bit you missed was about who foots the failure bill.

I quite accept that products, services are not perfect. What I don't accept is that I have to pay for the failure to provide service/product or for something I didn't get.

If my adsl line goes down for two days why must I pay Telkom for 31 days adsl - or put another way why must I pay for two days of service which I did not receive.
 
daveza said:
I was expecting that kind of response.

The bit you missed was about who foots the failure bill.

I quite accept that products, services are not perfect. What I don't accept is that I have to pay for the failure to provide service/product or for something I didn't get.

If my adsl line goes down for two days why must I pay Telkom for 31 days adsl - or put another way why must I pay for two days of service which I did not receive.
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I don't disagree that one should get the service you pay for.
 
Gaz{M} said:
If you can't handle the load, then stop selling more numbers. It's simple. You are angering more and more of your existing subscribers by signing up someone new.
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So lets close down all the Vodashops, MTN Connect and CellC shops. Take all the starter packs off the shelves in Pick-n-Pay and close down all the informal vendors selling starter packs. I'm sure that would go down well with consumers and owners of these businesses :sick:

Or you could take another approach: Using some simple 1st year BCom 'supply and demand' theory... If demand is outstripping supply then you push the price up to bring it back into balance. Wait - no one is going to like that either ;)
 
Seems we are back to the old dial-up modem scenario where we used to offer a 10-1 modem to user ratio ie 1 modem for 10 customers.

If you had a thousand clients you provided 100 modems. If 200 wanted to dial up then 100 of those were out of luck.

It appears that Cellular providers are trying to squeeze more and more through a stagnant spec - more profit, same outlay.

Greedy pigs I say.
 
louwtjiedt said:
The problem in SA is that no one publicly admits that there is a problem or when they do, it's always someone else's fault.
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Bug passing seems to be part of SA culture, first a specific part, but spreading rapidly! Even in these threads one can clearly see the tendency to point a finger elsewhere.

Consider the experience of a personal friend, being shown around their array of electronic equipment (one of the cellphone providers mentioned in this article). Referring to specific sports sponsorship and how they finance that sponsorship, the cell-company person did some calculations and said: "Let me show you. That sponsorship represents xyz calls on our network - let's drop some current calls in this area. See, there zxy callers have dialed again - that's R... to us. So all we need to do is repeat that exercise y times this week and the sponsorship is paid" Think they will publicly admit they deliberately cut calls to manipulate income streams? Especially now that the economic climate is tough, competition heating up, but they still want to show increased revenue, average spend per user, dividends, etc.

Hopefully ICASA makes huge progress on this issue.
 
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