Morne Steyn vs Ruan Pienaar

[Ou grote]

Again the thread topic is Morne Steyn vs Ruan Pienaar



Yip, and most people would do well to remember they are just that, opinions. Which is why I have to chuckle when some people start attacking individuals because of their opinion.

In my defence I did not state they need to go to those sites to form an opinion but rather to educate themselves.

Hah, those opinions are biased.
Mine are better.

 

[LancelotSA]

Hah, those opinions are biased.
Mine are better.

No mine are! I have nothing against Bulls players!! ha ha ha ha

 

[Ou grote]

No mine are! I have nothing against Bulls players!! ha ha ha ha

Or WeePee players, as I've noticed.

 

[killadoob]

That's been said about South African for the last 2 decades, what's new?

You would think that the only way to win a rugby match is by scoring tries but believe it or not it isn't.

I've watched Saturdays match again and honestly there was nothing wrong with Morne's ball distribution. He did it adequately for the Bulls in the Super14 and he continues to do it for the Boks.

For 30 minutes the Boks ran the ball and then for the remaining 50 they decided to opt for the kick and chase tactic. The bottom line is a 29-17 victory. What's the problem?

In 99 against the Lions we played a running expansive game, scored more tries then the opposition and lost the series on the back of shocking place kicking.

I prefer winning, dunno bout you Lance...

Some of us don't have to go to planetrugby and scrum.com to be able to form an opinion.

Flippin well said sandman, i am sorry i thought you did not dig morne when you said comparing is not right

As alf says we can form our own opinion and do not need some website to get our ideas from , winning is all that matter and a good kicker wins games. Not hard to grasp the concept unless your lance i guess

 

[GreGorGy]

Again the thread topic is Morne Steyn vs Ruan Pienaar

Thank you! At last some sense. The thread is Morné vs Ruan. And that post about "horses for courses" has yet to be retracted. We played the same horse on a different course and won. Again! This horse can kick and score and win. And still, STILL, there is this crazy notion that MS sucks because he was chosen over Ruan. Still, these damn sharkies insist that Ruan should have been chosen because (among other things) MS let through a try. Say, when RP replaced the other Steyn, did anyone notice Oz get a try? I did. I suppose that is Morné's fault too?

C'mon sharkies: there comes a time to admit that the better man is on the field doing a better job. This year, we wanna win the TriNations and let's be honest, RP can't do that for us right now. He is off-form and totally lacking in confidence while MS is on form and building his confidence by the second.

I have heard all form of argument for RP, including that horses nonsense and when the argument becomes null, a new argument is presented while the sharkies pretend their previous argument (which suddenly lends credence to the MS selection) was never made.

To hell with it: previously I said it was great to have both RP and MS as resources, acknowledging the skills of that Sharks player. But since this is fast becoming a one-way dialogue where MS can do anything and get no praise AT ALL from the sharkies, I'll go ahead and say it:

Ruan Sucks! He can't play his way out of a Cheetahs match, let alone make an impact in S14, let alone earn his position on the Bok bench. Ditch the loser. Morné is the only choice.

Heels firmly kicked in.
(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

 

[I am Penguin]

Thank you! At last some sense. The thread is Morné vs Ruan. And that post about "horses for courses" has yet to be retracted. We played the same horse on a different course and won. Again! This horse can kick and score and win. And still, STILL, there is this crazy notion that MS sucks because he was chosen over Ruan. Still, these damn sharkies insist that Ruan should have been chosen because (among other things) MS let through a try. Say, when RP replaced the other Steyn, did anyone notice Oz get a try? I did. I suppose that is Morné's fault too?

C'mon sharkies: there comes a time to admit that the better man is on the field doing a better job. This year, we wanna win the TriNations and let's be honest, RP can't do that for us right now. He is off-form and totally lacking in confidence while MS is on form and building his confidence by the second.

I have heard all form of argument for RP, including that horses nonsense and when the argument becomes null, a new argument is presented while the sharkies pretend their previous argument (which suddenly lends credence to the MS selection) was never made.

To hell with it: previously I said it was great to have both RP and MS as resources, acknowledging the skills of that Sharks player. But since this is fast becoming a one-way dialogue where MS can do anything and get no praise AT ALL from the sharkies, I'll go ahead and say it:

Ruan Sucks! He can't play his way out of a Cheetahs match, let alone make an impact in S14, let alone earn his position on the Bok bench. Ditch the loser. Morné is the only choice.

Heels firmly kicked in.
(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

Well lets be clear. This sharkie (me) said from the outset MS is performing well and deserves the accolades. Ruan? well never liked him too much but let him sit on the side and ponder what could have been. We are so blessed that Some posters are not in the selectors chair.

 

[LancelotSA]

Let's work through this bit by bit....

Thank you! At last some sense. The thread is Morné vs Ruan. And that post about "horses for courses" has yet to be retracted. We played the same horse on a different course and won. Again! This horse can kick and score and win.

There has never been any question from anyone that Morne can kick! No one has denied that from what I have seen. The question still remains that even on a bone dry field this Saturday there was not much else shown besides this horse's ability to kick.

And still, STILL, there is this crazy notion that MS sucks because he was chosen over Ruan. Still, these damn sharkies insist that Ruan should have been chosen

The funny thing is it is always the Morne supporters who bring provincial allegiances into this argument. Not one Ruan supporter has mentioned that he is a Sharks player but you guys insist on bringing that into the argument. We have given our reasons and still have not been proven wrong. When the most inspirational backline play comes from a hooker and not your flyhalf then there are issues....

...because (among other things) MS let through a try. Say, when RP replaced the other Steyn, did anyone notice Oz get a try? I did. I suppose that is Morné's fault too?

Did Giteau run straight through Ruan the way Conrad Smith did to Morne? I quote two match reports below -

That gave them a five metre scrum. From it - again nothing elaborate - Giteau darted inside Du Preez and Brüssow and stretched out in Spies's tackle to score near the posts.

I see no mention of Ruan Pienaar's name there.... and I wonder why Morne's name was not mentioned in defence there? Probably because he was running away from contact again. The problem is a lot of the hard graft gets missed when people's vision is clouded by his number of penalty kicks. Two penalties need to be kicked for every try that skips through his channel! Now compare that "commentary" to the Conrad Smith try -

They went right - So'oialo to Leonard to Donald to Conrad Smith. The tall centre cut inside De Villiers, handed off Morné Steyn and got past JP Pietersen to score.

Also I was hoping that bringing Ruan into flyhalf in that last match would provide a chance for us to see how much better he is in distributing the ball and getting the backline moving but him and Morne seemed to switch positions all the time so it was not visible.

C'mon sharkies: there comes a time to admit that the better man is on the field doing a better job. This year, we wanna win the TriNations and let's be honest, RP can't do that for us right now. He is off-form and totally lacking in confidence while MS is on form and building his confidence by the second.

Again you refer purely to kicking form.... I will gladly admit Morne is the better man when his performance shows me that! If you guys were more specific with reference to the "brilliance" of Morne then you'd find a lot of this back and forth "arguing" could be prevented. Just add the word "kicking" to all comments of brilliance, form etc.

I have heard all form of argument for RP, including that horses nonsense and when the argument becomes null, a new argument is presented while the sharkies pretend their previous argument (which suddenly lends credence to the MS selection) was never made.

Feel free to read the previous 8 pages of posts before this one and show me where the argument has deviated! It has always remained the same. Ruan is a better distributor of the ball, runner and opportunist. Morne can kick.

To hell with it: previously I said it was great to have both RP and MS as resources, acknowledging the skills of that Sharks player. But since this is fast becoming a one-way dialogue where MS can do anything and get no praise AT ALL from the sharkies, I'll go ahead and say it:

Ruan Sucks! He can't play his way out of a Cheetahs match, let alone make an impact in S14, let alone earn his position on the Bok bench. Ditch the loser. Morné is the only choice.

Heels firmly kicked in.
(Tongue firmly in cheek!)

 

[killadoob]

You have still not said once how well morne has done, all you say lance is how RP is better.

Give the man some praise FFS, he has done well for us, far better than ruan could have i think.

I cannot even read your posts about it anymore because you do not care about the boks only that your sharkie is not playing.

The boks do not play an attacking game, smit said when we need to run it we will but for now kicking is working.

We are not the all blacks, we want someone who is a solid kicker, we do not need someone who will get us tries. So far we have done rather well without pienaar, the first game in the tri nations morne comes on and kicks us to victory, he then scores 31 points and again kicks us to victory and again this last weekend he kicks us to victory.

He has also broken a few records in a 2 games. Damn Horrible how some people cannot the praise the man. We have won 3 out of 3 games in the tri nations mostly due to morne's awesome kicking ability.

 

[sand_man]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Ru...4b663/01-01-0001 12-01/Super_14_Stats_to_date

Statistics provided exclusively to sport24 by New Zealand-based Verusco, suppliers of video analysis systems to most of the South African Super 14 teams, have revealed some interesting numbers for local coaches to chew on as the 14 teams start to jockey for early-season positions in what is proving to be, at this stage at least, a wide-open race to the play-offs.

As already mentioned, SA’s players – all 111 of them who have made an appearance so far for the five franchises – have executed a total of 1 158 tackles at an efficiency of 72%, with all five teams averaging between 69% (Lions) and 73% (Cheetahs, Sharks).

In-form Bulls centre Wynand Olivier has made the most tackles (28) of any South African, followed by Lions flanker Cobus Grobbelaar (26), while Morné Steyn, Deon Stegmann and Juan Smith each made 25 hits.

Of the combined 448 tackles our teams missed, 107 were by the Stormers, 96 by the Bulls, 85 each by the Lions and Cheetahs, and 75 by the Sharks.

Nine players missed 10 or more tackles in the first two matches, with the three worst offenders being top-class forwards Pierre Spies (16), Grobbelaar (15) and Schalk Brits (13). But even more concerning is that four flyhalves – Earl Rose (13), Peter Grant (12), Ruan Pienaar and Meyer Bosman (10 apiece) – are among the nine worst tacklers with the odd man out – Bulls No 10 Steyn – proving to be not only a very good kicker but also an excellent tackler, having missed just five from 30 for an efficiency of 83.33%.

AND THATS NO BULL.

 

[LancelotSA]

We have won 3 out of 3 games in the tri nations mostly due to morne's awesome kicking ability.

Nothing to do with the exceptional efforts of the 8 forwards slogging away and destroying the opposition? And "we" are called blind!

 

[LancelotSA]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Ru...4b663/01-01-0001 12-01/Super_14_Stats_to_date

I would be extremely interested in seeing how these stats are arrived at.... I have watched Morne in a few of tri nations matches now and I only have one explanation for those stats showing him as being one of the players putting in the highest number of tackles. Either they count touching someone as a successful tackle or he has not carried his Super 14 defensive skills into the test arena!

 

[I am Penguin]

I would be extremely interested in seeing how these stats are arrived at.... I have watched Morne in a few of tri nations matches now and I only have one explanation for those stats showing him as being one of the players putting in the highest number of tackles. Either they count touching someone as a successful tackle or he has not carried his Super 14 defensive skills into the test arena!

They watch the game with different spectacles and no bias at all.

So you never saw MS play before, only in these tests?

 

[LancelotSA]

They watch the game with different spectacles and no bias at all.

So you never saw MS play before, only in these tests?

Yeah, I only watch the Sharks players and close my eyes whenever the opposition gets the ball... I tried closing one eye to ensure I only ever saw Sharks players but that did not work!

 

[I am Penguin]

Yeah, I only watch the Sharks players and close my eyes whenever the opposition gets the ball... I tried closing one eye to ensure I only ever saw Sharks players but that did not work!

To be expected, now I UNDERSTAND ALL THE POSTS.

 

[killadoob]

Yeah, I only watch the Sharks players and close my eyes whenever the opposition gets the ball... I tried closing one eye to ensure I only ever saw Sharks players but that did not work!

Now is all makes sense lance.

I always thought this though because only someone with blinkers on could say what you do.

 

[Devill]

Yeah sure, he's probably the only one that posts the words you would like to hear I presume. I am glad that you also regard your own posting here as not sensible, at least you are honest regards to your own failures.

I lol'ed

In 99 against the Lions we played a running expansive game, scored more tries then the opposition and lost the series on the back of shocking place kicking.

I prefer winning, dunno bout you Lance...

Lance had his sharkie-glasses on which auto detects anything good anyone else does and converts it into a great success for a sharks player.

I wish people will really watch the game and stop saying but, if , when, etc etc.

Fact Morne had a fair share in beating both the B&I lions in the second test, beating the all blacks in the second test and beating the Aussies last weekend. Along with that he has scored 50+ points in 2 games against the 2 top rated (barring us) teams in world rugby.

This leaves only 1 conclusion, he must be terrible at his job. And all these terrible things in only 2 tests starting (no i do not see that last test against the B&I lions as a test cause we played with a boland b-team).

I say kick MS out of world rugby! He is worthless cause he can only get points on the board and not score a try or two by himself....

Some of us don't have to go to planetrugby and scrum.com to be able to form an opinion.

I lol'ed even harder

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Ru...4b663/01-01-0001 12-01/Super_14_Stats_to_date

Lance im sure will come up with some story as how the pro stats guys (who are 100 times more knowledgeable than him on the subject) are wrong.

I would be extremely interested in seeing how these stats are arrived at.... I have watched Morne in a few of tri nations matches now and I only have one explanation for those stats showing him as being one of the players putting in the highest number of tackles. Either they count touching someone as a successful tackle or he has not carried his Super 14 defensive skills into the test arena!

O look he doesn't dissapoint.

You said we will never know if RP started we would have also won... Well steyn started and we DID win.

Also you complain about his inability to get the back line going.... beeep wrong... he got it going fine enough, if Pietersen didn't knock twice just as we were looking dangerous, and if Jean de Villiers and brian habana had been 0.5 secs faster over the 100m (not there fault) we would have seen 2-4 more tries.

Ps remember 2003 when england won the WC? Guess who "won" it for them.

Johny wilkinson, who also top scored in the WC with 113 point, yet funny enough he did not score one try.

Also funny to note how JW scored 15 of the 20 points that england scored to win the WC.

This is test rugby not some primary school match where scoring tries are the way to win...

Did you forget how we lost the '99 lions series? We scored more tries but we failed in the kicking for posts department and lost.

Did you also notice how Aus scored 2 tries to 1 on saturday yet we still won by more than 7 points?

But hay I understand that you don't care if the springboks win or lose, as long as we score tries.

 

[sand_man]

I would be extremely interested in seeing how these stats are arrived at.... I have watched Morne in a few of tri nations matches now and I only have one explanation for those stats showing him as being one of the players putting in the highest number of tackles. Either they count touching someone as a successful tackle or he has not carried his Super 14 defensive skills into the test arena!

You seem to be having a hard time processing the facts. Everytime you presented with them you question either the source or the validity or the motive...

Anyway here some more for you to ponder, sorry if they expose your mentor

morne vs Ruan

 

[Bizkit87]

You seem to be having a hard time processing the facts. Everytime you presented with them you question either the source or the validity or the motive...

Anyway here some more for you to ponder, sorry if they expose your mentor

morne vs Ruan

Sandmanm - you will not win against LancelotShark... he knows best when it comes to rugby, on friday nights, he advices Naas and co what to say on the test match...

anyway, i've given up on debating him [and a few others], since they keep on hammering on 1 point [bad ball distribution - which there still is no REAL evidence of ], and should you go and point out stats to them, it doesn't matter... [in fact, I've been told when i compared stats, that "us bulls supporters will dig up 100 years worth of stats to argue our point", strangely enough, varsity told me to back up your arguments with stats/facts... guess it's not relevant in this situation.

Lets hypothetically say Morne is starting for the next 3-4 years, breaks a ton of records, receives player of the 2011 RWC etc etc, i can guarantee you Lance and Co will still find a mountain of problems with his style/ball distribution/hair cut, whatever.

in their minds, RP is, and will ALWAYS be, the [-]best player to ever put his feet on a rugby field[/-] better player...

 

[LancelotSA]

Now the only reason for this post is as a result of all these calls regarding Morne's brilliance. He is a good player but he is not as exceptional as you guys make out! He kicks!

I just watched an hour long highlights package of the game.... besides his penalty kicks for posts the only occasions in which Morne "starred" were:

12:30 Decent tackle on Mortlock
23:30 Missed tackle on Mortlock
24:45 Morne drop kick after Frans was just told by Fourie to run it up as Aus were under the kosh. Frans was looking to line it up....
31.20 Morne kicks directly into touch when returning the ball after fielding an Aus kick just outside the SA 22
32:03 SA win resultant Aus lineout ball and Morne kicks it straight into Aus players hand in 22 and it gets booted back. Aus gain.
37:12 Morne misses tackle. Grabs Aus jersey but then loses grip.... Aus player gains valuable ground

40:26 Morne kicks straight into Barnes hands when kicking down field. Ball kicked back and SA end up in their 22. Ground lost.
48:16 Good kick by Morne. He chips ball into touch near Aus corner flag. Unfortunately gives away decent SA possession in the process
53:35 Morne misses touch with a penalty from the SA 22
56:11 Good following up by Morne. Tackles Aus player behind goal line forcing 5m scrum
64:34 Morne puts in decent cross kick for Habana to field. Unfortunately Habana misses it in the contest. The end consequence is a counter attack which leads to the scrum which results in Giteau's try! Correct option by Morne? By the way Morne was playing running red rover it appears when Giteau cut back as he was standing just outside him with his arms spread waiting for Giteau... who never arrived after the cut back! Another defensive blups by Morne?
68:00 Good up and under by Morne. Puts Aus under pressure.
72:35 Morne throws ball into JPs face when trying to distribute down the line... no communication?
80:30 Morne, lurking behind the rest of the line, tackles Aus player after he is slowed by Jannie Du Plessis

You notice how any "highlight" from Morne Steyn involves kicking?!?! For someone so centrally positioned in the game he is hardly involved.

Obviously not all tackles are shown in a highlights package but watching those it does make one question the stats quoted earlier. Another possible answer to those stats after watching the highlights is that Morne's tackle success percentage is only high as he only tackles someone who already has at least one other player hanging off him!!

If you think I am lying, watch it yourself... as stated the only things I have not mentioned are the penalty kicks! Feel free to watch and give your interpretation. I am more than happy to be corrected. Stop accusing me of making things up and watch the game again yourself and comment on his contributions! Remember there is no need to discuss penalties kicked as his kicking ability is not in question.

 

[killadoob]

You seem to be having a hard time processing the facts. Everytime you presented with them you question either the source or the validity or the motive...

Anyway here some more for you to ponder, sorry if they expose your mentor

morne vs Ruan

It is like trying to show a blind a bright shiny crystal and expecting him to appreciate it.

No offense to blind people though just using it as an example.