You refuse to believe the stats we present from a 3rd party but we are expected to take your (biased) word for it?
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Morne Steyn vs Ruan Pienaar
- Thread starter Bizkit87
- Start date
You refuse to believe the stats we present from a 3rd party but we are expected to take your (biased) word for it?
Good Life
Expert Member
Agreed. Morne Steyn is pretty average, except he is a good kicker. Ruan Pienaar's only real position is scrumhalf.
LancelotSA
Banned
Don't just post stats, interpret them!
Ruan played 526 minutes as flyhalf in the Super 14
Morne played 1168
Ruan made 82 tackles
Morne made 159
Ruan missed 15 tackles
Morne missed 44
Ruan missed 15% of tackles
Morne missed 22% of tackles
Isn't it funny how different stats seems to say totally different things! Was it not your post earlier that attempted to show what a great tackler Morne was....
LancelotSA
Banned
I have posted numerous comments about those stats. Further comments made in the post above. Stats without interpretation are useless! I have, however, in no way ignored them. We have very little stats on his Springbok play, so I base my opinion on what I see. As stated, please watch the game again yourself and feel free to post what you see here for us to read!
If you feel my word is biased then watch the game. I have even been so kind as to give you times so you can fast forward if you get sick of watching him get exposed!
sand_man
Honorary Master
Funny how you only bother to quote the stats that suit your argument.
So Morne made 10.6 tackles per match vs Ruan's 10.26, interesting to note that Morne made an average 103metres per match to Ruans 69metres, Morne made an average 19 passes per match vs Ruans 15 (thought Morne couldn't distribute/get his backline away?). Clean breaks 0.365 for Ruan per match and 0.6 per match for Morne (I thought Ruan was more dynamic on attack?). Ineffective passes Ruan 1.11 per match vs Morne 1 per match...
I see Ruan is also injury prone based on the lack of game time (8 starts out of 13) while Morne played an entire season (15/15) taking the Bulls to the final and winning it!!!!!
Sharks managed to hang on to an embarrassing 6th spot!!!
Not bad for a flyhalf who according to your synopsis of a 60 minute highlight package is not brilliant or worthy of being 1st choice. I give you almost 20 hours of stats and you give me YOUR interpretation of a 60 minute highlight package. Stop being a moron please!!!!
So not only can he kick way better but he makes more yards with ball in hand and passes the ball more often makes more clean breaks etc etc etc...
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MS gained 1553 meters in 1168 minutes (1.3296 m/m) thus 106.
RP gained 555 meters in 526 minutes (1.0551m/m)
Thus RP only makes 79.354% of the meters MS makes...
Maybe be less selective of the info you chose to ignore...
LancelotSA
Banned
Well of course I am going to quote the stats relevant to my argument! Why wouldn't I? It would be a bit silly to quote his successful penalty kicks when i have never questioned his kicking ability!! And further to this it would be meaningless as Ruan did not have the kicking duties.
And now you are really showing YOUR blinkered outlook by pretty much admitting to being totally unaware of the fact that Ruan was injured for a large portion of the season! And you say none of us bother ever watching any other team's fortunes...
So getting personal now hey? Is that a corner I see you getting backed into?
Why don't you just quote Currie cup stats from two years ago too as you seem to think all of these are relevant to test rugby! It is a rather laughable direction of debate considering so many have been shouting that test rugby is such a different beast and that kicking penalties is a priority! ha ha talk about using any argument to suit your cause! ha ha One minute the Morne fans are differentiating between test and Super 14 rugby and then they are quoting stats from Super 14 to prove his worth in Test rugby.
I have used the footage from the match that was referred to when stating how brilliant Morne is. I cannot really see where I have gone wrong in doing so.... besides of course the fact that what I saw showed exactly what I thought, and said, it would!
And now you are really showing YOUR blinkered outlook by pretty much admitting to being totally unaware of the fact that Ruan was injured for a large portion of the season! And you say none of us bother ever watching any other team's fortunes...
So getting personal now hey? Is that a corner I see you getting backed into?
Why don't you just quote Currie cup stats from two years ago too as you seem to think all of these are relevant to test rugby! It is a rather laughable direction of debate considering so many have been shouting that test rugby is such a different beast and that kicking penalties is a priority! ha ha talk about using any argument to suit your cause! ha ha One minute the Morne fans are differentiating between test and Super 14 rugby and then they are quoting stats from Super 14 to prove his worth in Test rugby.
I have used the footage from the match that was referred to when stating how brilliant Morne is. I cannot really see where I have gone wrong in doing so.... besides of course the fact that what I saw showed exactly what I thought, and said, it would!
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LancelotSA
Banned
I have been so kind as to humour you guys regarding the figures/stats/cr@p that you have posted. I will now sit back and wait for you to review the game on Saturday and post what you see.... If of course you are "brave" enough to do so!
sand_man
Honorary Master
Okay I give up, you win...
sand_man
Honorary Master
I see a 29-17 win, not sure what you see...
Anyway the Super14 is the yardstick on which players are selected for Springbok honours. Ruan cannot cut it at Super14 level, physically, mentally or any other way how's he supposed to make it at international level. He's not the 1st choice kicker for his province but is expected to kick to win a test series, doesn't have the mental toughness or ability, YET, to do it while Morne does and has proved it both for his province and nation...
I call you a moron because you continue with this notion that Morne doesn't deserve to be the starting flyhalf when it's painfully obvious to anyone who has been watching the last 2 test matches that he does.
LancelotSA
Banned
Ha ha you really do battle to follow!
My entire argument is based on the premise that Morne is not the brilliant flyhalf he is made out to be by many. Many have watched the last two games and now feel justified in saying "I told you so" but all these games have proven is exactly what I argued prior to them! That is my argument! He can kick! He can kick bloody well. But he is not the all encompassing flyhalf you guys THINK he is. One day his boot will let him down and that will be his only weapon gone. Other GREAT fly halves have other attributes to fall back on. I still say that kicking is a skill that can be learnt and taught!
My entire argument is based on the premise that Morne is not the brilliant flyhalf he is made out to be by many. Many have watched the last two games and now feel justified in saying "I told you so" but all these games have proven is exactly what I argued prior to them! That is my argument! He can kick! He can kick bloody well. But he is not the all encompassing flyhalf you guys THINK he is. One day his boot will let him down and that will be his only weapon gone. Other GREAT fly halves have other attributes to fall back on. I still say that kicking is a skill that can be learnt and taught!
And RP is even less so at current.
Pitbull
Verboten
Ok let's just clarify something quick....
Who is the current top points man in the Tri-nations?
Who is the Current number 1 choice in the Bok camp for playing Fly-half
I think that should put this whole stupid debate to rest.
Mornè Steyn is leagues above Ruan Pienaar currently and all resistance is futile
Who is the current top points man in the Tri-nations?
Who is the Current number 1 choice in the Bok camp for playing Fly-half
I think that should put this whole stupid debate to rest.
Mornè Steyn is leagues above Ruan Pienaar currently and all resistance is futile
sand_man
Honorary Master
SO WHO WOULD BE YOUR 1ST CHOICE FLYHALF?
Do you not understand that kicking is a fundamental of the game of rugby as played in SA and the Northern Hemisphere. A flyhalf who cannot kick is like a wicket keeper that cannot catch.
You so blarsay about this aspect of his game and yet when Verusco provides proof that he can run and pass you stick to the notion that he can only kick..
I say he is the all encompassing flyhalf as he has shown he can ran and pass and kick superbly both for poles and tacticly, as was the team instructions in the last test, where Ruan is limited in his kicking game and is not as dynamic on attack and distribution as you would like us to believe, once again highlighted by Verusco stats...
Keep up, always read the thread title for a clue as to what it's about
MORNE VS RUAN
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sand_man
Honorary Master
I'm enjoying the debate, only an educated individual would be able to defend the way Ruan has performed in test match rugby this year...
Ou grote
Honorary Master
I agree with some people here, It should've been a Naas vs Steyn thread.
We already know Pienaar can't match Steyn.
We already know Pienaar can't match Steyn.
LancelotSA
Banned
Ha ha ha what an intelligent argument... I wonder why Willem de Waal is not the top points scorer in the Tri-nations. It must be because he is useless. That is the only reason I can think of....
And as for point 2 can we conclude that when Ruan was chosen that meant the argument that Morne was a better flyhalf was futile? Does that mean that in any position in the selector chosen Springbok team there cannot be any better player in SA? If that is your view you have very limited memory of Springbok selector lapses in wisdom...
I repeat for those who choose not to read all posts...
Keep up, always read the thread title for a clue as to what it's about
MORNE VS RUAN
I repeat for the others who choose not to read all posts...
By the way, what happened in the Currie Cup this weekend? I'm sure the Bulls had a big game but I have not seen the "Bulls rock" thread being bumped much. I was away, what happened?
Pitbull
Verboten
Ha ha ha what an intelligent argument... I wonder why Willem de Waal is not the top points scorer in the Tri-nations. It must be because he is useless. That is the only reason I can think of....
And as for point 2 can we conclude that when Ruan was chosen that meant the argument that Morne was a better flyhalf was futile? Does that mean that in any position in the selector chosen Springbok team there cannot be any better player in SA? If that is your view you have very limited memory of Springbok selector lapses in wisdom...
I repeat for those who choose not to read all posts...
I repeat for the others who choose not to read all posts...
By the way, what happened in the Currie Cup this weekend? I'm sure the Bulls had a big game but I have not seen the "Bulls rock" thread being bumped much. I was away, what happened?
Did it ever cross your mind that is a very good utility back?
If needed he can replace Mornè Steyn if injured or replace Fourie du Preez.
Being on the bench means he is second to the player on the field. You're trying to tell me Ruan is on the bench because he is the best Fly-Half
We need a no10 that can win us matches not just pass the ball around and run little circles. Ruan missed a total of 12 or 15 points agains the All Black in the first test. Now come on Lance, even you know that is true.