Murder down 30% since 1994, but perceptions different.

BBSA said:
I noticed that attempted murders has gone up over the same period. If you look at combined stat for murders and attempted murders the stat has actually gone up. So maybe as with the rest of South Africa the standards of murders has also gone down.
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Funny you noticed that , because the opposite is true. Attempted murder is even more down than murder.
 
happychappy said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_South_Africa




1st: What massive economic growth? There is nothing massive, it's poor at best...
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Are you serious ? You trying to say South Africa has not enjoyed MASSIVE economic growth in the past 14 years ? Certainly for us it's the biggest period of growth in our history. But even in the broader context our growth consistency has been phenomenal.

2nd: It's so strange but I remember the police investigating crime in the townships pre 1994?
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Oh yes the police took Sipho raping Agnes ever so seriously during apartheid. It's not like they had any kind of agenda to pretend black people were living well or that like..before that there were homelands that didn't register in S.A crime states etc....oh wait!

lol

3rd: taxes meant for roads, education and health care were spent on those substandard septic tank houses... with barely enough room for 2 people let alone the 5-10 people usually crammed into those sardine cans. There is nothing to be proud of it's just anc smoke and mirrors and if you were actually in touch with reality you would know that the recent service delivery riots were partly due to the houses being a very dangerous structures built with cheap materials that were falling apart before people moved into the homes. no electricity/water or even an municipality body to govern the bills!

I think you are blaming apartheid, for problems created now by the ANC. Incompetence and sheer ignorance by people like you are to blame. Face it this country is falling apart, our critical services like policing , government and health care are declining at an extremely fast rate.

If this isn't corrected it will eventually lead to major problems, social problems and guess who will be to blame. Whites and apartheid. :roll: So rather go join your liberal buddies by toi toi'ing the goverment buildings for better services than trolling here...
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Hey when you're building more houses than almost any other country in the history of the planet per Capita on a relatively tiny budget there's bound to be a few duds along the way. All I know is that you get most people very happy to have a house not made from tin or mud. Some are well built , others are not. All are better than nothing. Especially considering the elect5ricity and running water etc that goes with them.

For a country "falling apart" as you so melodramatically put it I sure as heck see a bunch of new townhouse complexews, shopping malls , game farms, entertainment plaza's and all sorts of new developments going up like never before. You'd swear if the country was falling apart now it was crumbling in 1994. Question to you people saying South Africa is falling apart...er....do you actually still live here ? It's just you seem out of touch.
 
Smooth Criminal said:
It's funny how you criticise somebody's spelling when your own grammar fails:

Face, meet palm.
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No trust me , that type really genuinely do hope many white people are murdered. Whne they read about it feel serious satisfaction. When they read about the murder rate coming down....outrage.

Muppets.
 
Therooster said:
Are you serious ? You trying to say South Africa has not enjoyed MASSIVE economic growth in the past 14 years ? Certainly for us it's the biggest period of growth in our history. But even in the broader context our growth consistency has been phenomenal.

Given inflation it's minimal, 50% of the country lives in poverty.Meaning 30% that have full time jobs still struggle to get along.
China has a "MASSIVE" economic growth rate btw We need 10%+ and we are way worse off than china


Oh yes the police took Sipho raping Agnes ever so seriously during apartheid. It's not like they had any kind of agenda to pretend black people were living well or that like..before that there were homelands that didn't register in S.A crime states etc....oh wait!

O yes it was all a conspiracy, rofl dude rather keep quite about stuff you don't know anything about. I'm certian you may want to ask an older black person to explain it to you... sigh





Hey when you're building more houses than almost any other country in the history of the planet per Capita on a relatively tiny budget there's bound to be a few duds along the way. All I know is that you get most people very happy to have a house not made from tin or mud. Some are well built , others are not. All are better than nothing. Especially considering the elect5ricity and running water etc that goes with them.

For a country "falling apart" as you so melodramatically put it I sure as heck see a bunch of new townhouse complexews, shopping malls , game farms, entertainment plaza's and all sorts of new developments going up like never before. You'd swear if the country was falling apart now it was crumbling in 1994. Question to you people saying South Africa is falling apart...er....do you actually still live here ? It's just you seem out of touch.
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You get 20 000 houses being built by the same contractor at say R50 000 each. If they all are duds how much do YOU lose? It helps nothing if the roof blows away or the sink house you were living in was more safe and secure? Quality RDP houses are few and far in between... Problem is they are being built by mostly the same guys country wide.


Have you seen these houses, hospitals, police stations and most importantly our financial centers of late?

I am not talking about the small developments that you are talking about, I mean massive injections of capital into above. The developments you see are far away from what is our economy's workhorse.

It's quite simply put people running away from important areas because of crime etc and relocating to suburbs outside JHB and PTA central.

These building jobs are all temporary by the way, the 2010 projects have boosted our economy I can't deny it but senior financial writers for several big publications have warned that this will only last till after 2010.

A country as large as south africa need a city that is alive, not financially dead to function and grow.

Jhb is currently losing more and more finances and this is causing the once great city in greater and greater social and economic problems.

A healthy economy will have the inner city being revamped with high rise buildings, new hospitals and schools. This is sadly the opposite in most of our major centers.

Therooster said:
No trust me , that type really genuinely do hope many white people are murdered. Whne they read about it feel serious satisfaction. When they read about the murder rate coming down....outrage.

Muppets.
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pray tell what type am I in your words... Not muppets as that is a moronic childish statement. Say what you really think, as I know it will lose you so much credibility you will essentially commit e-suicide on here.


Edit:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/article221609.ece

lol, even the media agrees :D
 
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Therooster said:
When they read about the murder rate coming down....outrage.

Muppets.
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Rooster, I think you've got it wrong about many folks' sentiments in this country. People aren't outraged as a result of (as you claim) these rates coming down, and so essentially losing the 'I told you so' battle. They're flaming mad because of the potential the country has (dare I say 'had'?) being wasted and things being allowed to degenerate at a rate of knots. We read about it literally every day. Something we also hear about every day is serious crime. It affects real people all the time. It aint no myth!

Personally, I don't trust ONE single thing to come out of government especially something like crime stats but I guarantee you that if all was rosy and there really was not an issue, I for one, would gladly eat humble pie no matter my initial level of cynicism.

By the way, how long ago was it that someone you knew was murdered? For me, 7 months. I guarantee you this person's family members could care less about these BS doctored crime stats. Rightly so!
 
Flanders said:
Rooster, I think you've got it wrong about many folks' sentiments in this country. People aren't outraged as a result of (as you claim) these rates coming down, and so essentially losing the 'I told you so' battle. They're flaming mad because of the potential the country has (dare I say 'had'?) being wasted and things being allowed to degenerate at a rate of knots. We read about it literally every day. Something we also hear about every day is serious crime. It affects real people all the time. It aint no myth!

Personally, I don't trust ONE single thing to come out of government especially something like crime stats but I guarantee you that if all was rosy and there really was not an issue, I for one, would gladly eat humble pie no matter my initial level of cynicism.

By the way, how long ago was it that someone you knew was murdered? For me, 7 months. I guarantee you this person's family members could care less about these BS doctored crime stats. Rightly so!
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The question you just asked , if asked to anyone I know who lives in my city, would be considered absurd. Ask that to white people in my city and you would literally get a look as if you have recently escaped from an mental home.

I have never known anyone who is murdered (other than one European women who was killed by her white husband) and to my knowledge nor has any of my family or close friends.

Just out of curiosity where is it you live that you can ask such a absurd question ? And what number do you guess of white South Africans have been killed since 1994. You're aware it's much less than 10 000 right ? And how does this fact sleep with the loony asumptions in your question ? I just think your question stinks of agenda.

You wouldn't ask someone when was the last time you knew someone killed in a car wreck as if it was a matter of fact question. You would ask "Have you ever" not "When last". And that of course is hundreds of times more likely statistically in this country. I just don't believe you honestly and sincerely would expect someone to give you a "It's been this long" answer. Because the obvious truth is that most people...a gross majority ...where I live...don't know anyone murdered. I call bull.
 
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Whoa there, Rooster. It's your thread, pal...about, wait for it...murder rates (supposedly coming down, to boot). It's also the internet. So, since we enjoy a degree of anonymity and this is a thread about murder rates, I thought it may be a reasonable question to ask. Agenda? Agenda?! I ask a simple question (one I find to be pertinent in this case) and you jump to the nth degree of defence. It's not like I asked you what colour underpants you're wearing.

Paranoia much?

Anyway, I'm in JHB and although I've not had any close family members murdered (thank God), we've had some very close scrapes. When my brother was hijacked, they pulled him out of the car, hit him over the head with a hard object so that he went down and then one of them proceeded to snuff him out by dropping a large chunk of concrete on his head. Luckily he managed to get out of the way in time to get to his feet, fight them off as best he could and then make a fast getaway. Had he not had the presence of mind or even sharpness within himself on that particular day, he would've been murdered and I'd be here telling you where to stick your thread and your silly utopian ideas about how positive this country is looking.

My father also had a close scrape. He and everyone else in a restaurant were held up and made to hand over their belongings, faces pressed to the floor while they had every racial slur under the sun thrown at them. When the thugs left, one unfortunate man who was locking up his shop happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and was outright murdered for his efforts. Not long afterwards, my father's friend was murdered in cold blood in a very similar incident. This happened in front of his young boy.

Aside from these incidents, I have three friends who've had their fathers murdered in cold blood for as little as a cell phone - all of them in their own homes. These are not friends of friends. These are people I knew.

Then there's the mother and daughter (long-time friends of my parents) who were looking after a farm in the Clarence area who were beaten and the mother was raped, all in typical take-nothing-just-do-it-for-the-fun-of-it farm style invasion. That was last month but hey, different subject there so we'll reserve that one for a thread when you try and justify farm invasions.

There are others who could share a story or two with you, but I’m sure for many people it’s very hard to talk about. I know it would be for me had my own family member been murdered. So, Rooster, maybe the reason for us South Africans being “so neurotic and needlessly cynical” is because these issues are a reality affecting real people and we are sick and bloody tired of it. Maybe consider that next time, because to me, it would seem you’re the only one with an agenda here. That is, to desperately want to believe that the only problem this country faces is certain white people wanting to return to the “ou dae”.
 
The simple things I used to do as a child I wouldn't dare let my kids do now, things like riding my bicycle around the neighbourhood or playing for hours outside, walking to friends houses etc

The reason for this is not that crime has gotten any worse as such, but that the violence and crime that was limited to certain areas has now spread to all areas, even places that were once havens have now been affected.

I'm sitting here in my lil flat, doors n windows all locked up and I wouldn't dare venture an evening stroll with my dog and a lot of us who have known a better existence than this are the ones that are pissed off :(
 
Flanders said:
Whoa there, Rooster. It's your thread, pal...about, wait for it...murder rates (supposedly coming down, to boot). It's also the internet. So, since we enjoy a degree of anonymity and this is a thread about murder rates, I thought it may be a reasonable question to ask. Agenda? Agenda?! I ask a simple question (one I find to be pertinent in this case) and you jump to the nth degree of defence. It's not like I asked you what colour underpants you're wearing.

Paranoia much?

Anyway, I'm in JHB and although I've not had any close family members murdered (thank God), we've had some very close scrapes. When my brother was hijacked, they pulled him out of the car, hit him over the head with a hard object so that he went down and then one of them proceeded to snuff him out by dropping a large chunk of concrete on his head. Luckily he managed to get out of the way in time to get to his feet, fight them off as best he could and then make a fast getaway. Had he not had the presence of mind or even sharpness within himself on that particular day, he would've been murdered and I'd be here telling you where to stick your thread and your silly utopian ideas about how positive this country is looking.

My father also had a close scrape. He and everyone else in a restaurant were held up and made to hand over their belongings, faces pressed to the floor while they had every racial slur under the sun thrown at them. When the thugs left, one unfortunate man who was locking up his shop happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and was outright murdered for his efforts. Not long afterwards, my father's friend was murdered in cold blood in a very similar incident. This happened in front of his young boy.

Aside from these incidents, I have three friends who've had their fathers murdered in cold blood for as little as a cell phone - all of them in their own homes. These are not friends of friends. These are people I knew.

Then there's the mother and daughter (long-time friends of my parents) who were looking after a farm in the Clarence area who were beaten and the mother was raped, all in typical take-nothing-just-do-it-for-the-fun-of-it farm style invasion. That was last month but hey, different subject there so we'll reserve that one for a thread when you try and justify farm invasions.

There are others who could share a story or two with you, but I’m sure for many people it’s very hard to talk about. I know it would be for me had my own family member been murdered. So, Rooster, maybe the reason for us South Africans being “so neurotic and needlessly cynical” is because these issues are a reality affecting real people and we are sick and bloody tired of it. Maybe consider that next time, because to me, it would seem you’re the only one with an agenda here. That is, to desperately want to believe that the only problem this country faces is certain white people wanting to return to the “ou dae”.
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To make the situation you described an "average" one you would need to know 50 000 people closely. That's tens times the amount of people than words the average person knows. I'll explain the maths in the morning.
 
JHatman said:
The simple things I used to do as a child I wouldn't dare let my kids do now, things like riding my bicycle around the neighbourhood or playing for hours outside, walking to friends houses etc

The reason for this is not that crime has gotten any worse as such, but that the violence and crime that was limited to certain areas has now spread to all areas, even places that were once havens have now been affected.

I'm sitting here in my lil flat, doors n windows all locked up and I wouldn't dare venture an evening stroll with my dog and a lot of us who have known a better existence than this are the ones that are pissed off :(
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Where do you live ? Iraq ?

Serious question. The average South African suburb is perfectly safe to freakin do those things.
 
charlie_82 said:
I wouldn't know about murder, but a lot of people don't report crime anymore because it's so pointless.
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Please explain how and why you won't declare a murder. I'd love to know who wouldn't aside from destitute/indigent or someone who has zero people to ask where they are and with no current records. Remember people say its brutal death, so this won't get past inspectors/docs for cause of death.
 
Therooster said:
To make the situation you described an "average" one you would need to know 50 000 people closely. That's tens times the amount of people than words the average person knows. I'll explain the maths in the morning.
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:confused: (what MATHS)

my family member had been murdered!

do you want to know how many mybb members their families or friends had been murdered for the past 16 years? What MATHS you can give me? do you want to argue with me with MATHS like the others did to insult yourself? Shut your big mouth and keep quiet please! :sick:
 
Therooster said:
I must apologise as I've misled people. I claimed murder is down 30% since 1994. This is very wrong.

I failed to take into account the change in population. Murder is in fact down 44% since 1994.

lulz.
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Who cares if crime is down. :rolleyes:

SA ranks

1st for Murders by firearms (0.719782 per 1,000 people)

1st for Rapes (1.19538 per 1,000 people)

1st for assaults (12.0752 per 1,000 people)

You got the total population statistics? About 1million whites have emigrated since 1994. And there are something like 5000 Zimbabweans crossing the border every day into South Africa. Google it if you don't belive it.
 
Therooster said:
Where do you live ? Iraq ?

Serious question. The average South African suburb is perfectly safe to freakin do those things.
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Not completely. I think it is safer than many people, especially around here, would make it seem but still it's a reality to get mugged just walking around your own area. In fact in my area it's quite easy and as a result very few actual residents are walking around, especially after dark.

When I moved here as a kid we'd do those sorts of things all the time, but I really don't feel as safe doing it any more after a few muggings/attempted muggings and having it happen to friends. I still walk around my own area every day as a student actually, but I notice how few (close to none half the time) other residents I see out. And that's why it's not considered safe to do it any more really, simply because people don't venture into the streets. It's half perception.
 
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