ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
Of course you do. The so-called "mainstream" version of Islam is the sugar coated one. I am yet to be convinced that the minority fundamentalists are wrong just because their version is not the pc version.
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Muslims comdemn Islamic State
- Thread starter Fury05
- Start date
Of course you do. The so-called "mainstream" version of Islam is the sugar coated one. I am yet to be convinced that the minority fundamentalists are wrong just because their version is not the pc version.
sparticus
Expert Member
Sadly it seems damned if you do and damned if you dont. I dont get it sometimes.
I mean a statement like this for example by Ockie
Sorry not to pick on you but its a good example maybe. I feel you being a little hard on Muslims or Islamic leaders for that matter. All the atrocities committed in the name of Islam is not encouraged by all Muslims. Now , yes you get the extremist and unfortunately they are not just a few but I don't think its fair to paint everyone with the same brush.
I mean you get people that kill in the name of Christianity as well , the KKK uses the bible scriptures to justify their warped ideology. There are many other terrorists groups out there and statistically Islam ranks very low in some cases , howcome we have not seen anyone blame Christianity or labelled the religion ? For example a An FBI report shows that only a small percentage of terrorist attacks carried out on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were perpetrated by Muslims. Jewish Extremist ranked higher than Muslims (7% vs 6%) Source -http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html
It just seems to me as a Muslim a little unfair to label us all when a group like ISIS makes headlines , Howcome it becomes my problem only ? Everyone is asking why dont Muslims march against ISIS ? I agree , but lets all march together , its not an Islamic only matter.
Last week there was a protest in the UK attended by many from all religions against ISIS , Imams and priest and Jewish leaders stood side by side.
In closing , I don't support ISIS , I oppose them and very vocally as well , I am yet to see one of my fellow Muslims support them or even sit in the fence about the whole situation , there are some that argue that what we see is not necessary the truth ie this is a US or CIA conspiracy. Of that I am not sure but what I do know is that you cannot just kill and murder and torture in the Name of Islam.
I mean a statement like this for example by Ockie
Sorry not to pick on you but its a good example maybe. I feel you being a little hard on Muslims or Islamic leaders for that matter. All the atrocities committed in the name of Islam is not encouraged by all Muslims. Now , yes you get the extremist and unfortunately they are not just a few but I don't think its fair to paint everyone with the same brush.
I mean you get people that kill in the name of Christianity as well , the KKK uses the bible scriptures to justify their warped ideology. There are many other terrorists groups out there and statistically Islam ranks very low in some cases , howcome we have not seen anyone blame Christianity or labelled the religion ? For example a An FBI report shows that only a small percentage of terrorist attacks carried out on U.S. soil between 1980 and 2005 were perpetrated by Muslims. Jewish Extremist ranked higher than Muslims (7% vs 6%) Source -http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/muslims-only-carried-out-2-5-percent-of-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil-between-1970-and-2012.html
It just seems to me as a Muslim a little unfair to label us all when a group like ISIS makes headlines , Howcome it becomes my problem only ? Everyone is asking why dont Muslims march against ISIS ? I agree , but lets all march together , its not an Islamic only matter.
Last week there was a protest in the UK attended by many from all religions against ISIS , Imams and priest and Jewish leaders stood side by side.
In closing , I don't support ISIS , I oppose them and very vocally as well , I am yet to see one of my fellow Muslims support them or even sit in the fence about the whole situation , there are some that argue that what we see is not necessary the truth ie this is a US or CIA conspiracy. Of that I am not sure but what I do know is that you cannot just kill and murder and torture in the Name of Islam.
STS
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I sympathise with many muslims on here, because the forum is full of good and caring people, we sometimes just can't seem to relate with one another or are misled by our fears and irrationality.
i mean it doesn't matter how many muslims speak out here and how much they contribute, how patient they are, what a thriving and peaceful islamic culture we have in our country, people will be hung up with what is happening on the other end of the world and ignore the history, situation and cultures there, but make comparisons to people in other places.
while i don't agree with your beliefs and i know it isn't the lifestyle for me(i've had discussions with a few muslims on here), i do see why people find it beautiful and i do see the good that it does. it makes me happy that i am able to have discussions on islam with my brother and to be able to teach him verses and stories, and to see how it's changed him and made him a happier person.
i mean it doesn't matter how many muslims speak out here and how much they contribute, how patient they are, what a thriving and peaceful islamic culture we have in our country, people will be hung up with what is happening on the other end of the world and ignore the history, situation and cultures there, but make comparisons to people in other places.
while i don't agree with your beliefs and i know it isn't the lifestyle for me(i've had discussions with a few muslims on here), i do see why people find it beautiful and i do see the good that it does. it makes me happy that i am able to have discussions on islam with my brother and to be able to teach him verses and stories, and to see how it's changed him and made him a happier person.
STS
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on another note, the reason i am often a pain in the ass on this forum, is that i get sick of the hypocrisy. many of us are in a minority group of some sort, yet we are quick to condemn others and judge them in regards to our own selfish goals and agendas.
we don't need to accept bull****, we can have discussions and challenge each other, but take a leaf out of orbital's book and praise people when they deserve it and it won't kill you to be nice.
many of us tolerate ****-beliefs in one form or another, but in the end we share the same goals and desires, we just want to be happy and for others to be happy
we don't need to accept bull****, we can have discussions and challenge each other, but take a leaf out of orbital's book and praise people when they deserve it and it won't kill you to be nice.
many of us tolerate ****-beliefs in one form or another, but in the end we share the same goals and desires, we just want to be happy and for others to be happy
AfricanTech
Honorary Master
Good on the Jamiat Ulama
Hopefully their condemnation can form the core of a groundswell of condemnation from the broader Muslim community.
Hopefully their condemnation can form the core of a groundswell of condemnation from the broader Muslim community.
Ockie
Resident Lead Bender
Just because you are part of some kind of minority group does not mean you have to shut up and not have a opinion about something. Besides, I am not judging anyone in this thread. I voiced my opinion and stated I am not buying what they are selling in the article.
If anything, I judge what Islam tends to do to people and societies. Same as I judge what Christianity etc tends to do to people. But we dont have majority christian countries hanging gays and stoning woman or christians flying Boeings into skyscrapers or bombing London, in the name of jesus christ their savior.
sparticus
Expert Member
But you do have a Jewish state killing , torturing innocent people while denying them basic humans rights , you do have a situation where innocent people where bombed by drones etc. What is your opinion on that ? Not trying to start a fight here but maybe try and see it from maybe my perspective.
PS - I dont necessary disagree with alot you saying though. We could be a little more vocal and opposing some of the atrocities and this is my struggle as well.
Ockie
Resident Lead Bender
To start off with, I do not agree with the recent news that Israel taking land in the West Bank.
That said, I am a Israel supporter and I believe that Israel has got a right to exist and to protect itself and its citizens from aggression from Islamic states and Islamic terrorists from Gaza, West Bank and elsewhere.
Mineer
Expert Member
I call BS since you are not protesting the land grab and not vocal enough. So I think you support the land grab by Israel.
Ockie
Resident Lead Bender
I voiced the disagreement with it in the actual thread where the news was reported also. But if you call BS then its cool. If you dont believe I am against that move by Israel then it is no skin off my back, just like it is not skin off the jumiat Ulama or whatever they are called backs either because I dont buy their BS. /shrug
STS
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ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
STS
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Nice try. No cigar.
It's not "our group" trying to lay waste to the world
"Our group"? You mean you guys have already created your own clique and group and have set plans and goals?
Being gay is an orienration, not a religion or lifestyle or fashion. Just as you can be a straight whatever-you-want, so can you be a gay whatever
There are gay muslims too, just as gay christians and gay racists. The world is a little more diverse than the gay mafia
ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
"Our group"? You mean you guys have already created your own clique and group and have set plans and goals?
Being gay is an orienration, not a religion or lifestyle or fashion. Just as you can be a straight whatever-you-want, so can you be a gay whatever
There are gay muslims too, just as gay christians and gay racists. The world is a little more diverse than the gay mafia
Whoever said anything about "our group" being gay? :erm:
STS
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I am lost between threads on my phone
Our "groups" are unanimously against violence then, so why are we not protesting alongside them?
Pitbull
Verboten
Wait do I understand this right? So Muslims condemn it by launching Burn the ISIS flag. Then the Muslims say they can't burn it because it's a Muslim flag? 
I know it's 2 different sides of the fence here, just shows not all Muslims condemn what is happening
I know it's 2 different sides of the fence here, just shows not all Muslims condemn what is happening
Fury05
Expert Member
Not because it is "a Muslim flag", it was because the flag had the line, "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger" which is the translation of the Shahadah (declaration of faith). And so far I've only seen that one politician from Lebanon, I think it is, saying that.Wait do I understand this right? So Muslims condemn it by launching Burn the ISIS flag. Then the Muslims say they can't burn it because it's a Muslim flag?
I know it's 2 different sides of the fence here, just shows not all Muslims condemn what is happening
Still condemning it but calling burning of the flag disrespectful to Islam. (which I do not agree with based on the intention of those burning the flag)
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LazyLion
King of de Jungle
IUC JOINS SA MUSLIM CONDEMNATION OF ISIS
The Islamic Unity Convention (IUC) has joined several South African Muslim bodies in condemning the actions of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (Isis).
It said in a statement on Wednesday that core tenets of Islam included love, peace and unity and justice and that these values were not reserved only for Muslims.
"It is therefore with abhorrence that the Islamic Unity Convention witnesses the crimes of the so-called 'Islamic State' (Isis)," it said.
"How can a group claiming to act in the name of Islam... build a caliphate on mass murders and human rights abuses?"
Last week the Muslim Judicial Council urged the United Nations to put an end to atrocities in the region.
"The Muslim Judicial Council unequivocally condemns the group... for the mass murder and destruction committed against innocent civilians, religious minorities, scholars and places of worship," it said.
"We reject this murderous group which seeks legitimacy amongst Muslims by claiming the noble title of the caliphate while it violates Islamic sharia [law] and brings disrepute to the noble legacy of the house of Islam."
In August, the scholarly body Jamiatul Ulama SA also condemned Isis.
"Warfare does not absolve the members of any Islamic caliphate, state or entity from the responsibility of observance of human rights and the rules of engagement where women, children and the elderly as well as all civilian non-combatants, their lives and property, are never targeted but safeguarded," it said.
"It therefore comes strange to us that an Islamic state would be founded on atrocities, massacres and extra-judicial punishments that include summary executions of individuals suspected of crimes."
The caliphate is a political-religious state for the Muslim community that follows through successive caliphs (leaders) leading back to the Prophet Mohammed.
The last historical caliphate was the Ottoman empire which ended during World War One.
Isis, which is now calling itself the Islamic State, has claimed a stretch of land between Syria and Iraq as part of its caliphate, under the leadership of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a former US prisoner in Iraq.
The group has ordered Christians living in the claimed land to convert to Islam, pay a tax, or face death.
It is also fighting against Shias, a sect of Islam, in the region.
The group has recorded two videos showing a masked member decapitating US journalists Steven Sotloff on September 2, and James Foley on August 19. They claimed this was in retaliation for US bombing in the region.
Source : Sapa /aa/cls/lp/th
Date : 10 Sep 2014 16:18
The Islamic Unity Convention (IUC) has joined several South African Muslim bodies in condemning the actions of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (Isis).
It said in a statement on Wednesday that core tenets of Islam included love, peace and unity and justice and that these values were not reserved only for Muslims.
"It is therefore with abhorrence that the Islamic Unity Convention witnesses the crimes of the so-called 'Islamic State' (Isis)," it said.
"How can a group claiming to act in the name of Islam... build a caliphate on mass murders and human rights abuses?"
Last week the Muslim Judicial Council urged the United Nations to put an end to atrocities in the region.
"The Muslim Judicial Council unequivocally condemns the group... for the mass murder and destruction committed against innocent civilians, religious minorities, scholars and places of worship," it said.
"We reject this murderous group which seeks legitimacy amongst Muslims by claiming the noble title of the caliphate while it violates Islamic sharia [law] and brings disrepute to the noble legacy of the house of Islam."
In August, the scholarly body Jamiatul Ulama SA also condemned Isis.
"Warfare does not absolve the members of any Islamic caliphate, state or entity from the responsibility of observance of human rights and the rules of engagement where women, children and the elderly as well as all civilian non-combatants, their lives and property, are never targeted but safeguarded," it said.
"It therefore comes strange to us that an Islamic state would be founded on atrocities, massacres and extra-judicial punishments that include summary executions of individuals suspected of crimes."
The caliphate is a political-religious state for the Muslim community that follows through successive caliphs (leaders) leading back to the Prophet Mohammed.
The last historical caliphate was the Ottoman empire which ended during World War One.
Isis, which is now calling itself the Islamic State, has claimed a stretch of land between Syria and Iraq as part of its caliphate, under the leadership of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a former US prisoner in Iraq.
The group has ordered Christians living in the claimed land to convert to Islam, pay a tax, or face death.
It is also fighting against Shias, a sect of Islam, in the region.
The group has recorded two videos showing a masked member decapitating US journalists Steven Sotloff on September 2, and James Foley on August 19. They claimed this was in retaliation for US bombing in the region.
Source : Sapa /aa/cls/lp/th
Date : 10 Sep 2014 16:18
Fury05
Expert Member
Could I suggest Gary change the title of the thread to Muslims condemn Islamic State. All news related to this issue can then be posted here so we don't end up with multiple threads.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
OK will do