MWEB - Message from CEO - Acceptable Use Policy

[racer]

..well I really can't bash Mweb, some j@ck@ss stole 1km of the Telkom copper wires to my farm

oh go ahead and bash them anyway.. everyone else is

 

[DMH88]

No. They count the SAIX usage AND the MWeb usage, even if you only used 5gig of SAIX. They will nag you after 20gig, not 30.

Tanya35, you have to tell us who you work for. Clearly your bosses put you up to this!

 

[SabreWolfy]

You quite right, its not about penis downloading wards. I dont need to compensate for anything

You need to understand where I am coming from here though. I am NOT a heavy downloader, Im talking from principle point of view here.

Here... have a sweet.. but you can only suck it half way and then put it back in the wrapper and give it back. fail.

So while I totally understand, and agree with what you are saying....

Its still a contradiction

You left out an important part. Here is a sweet. Before you start to enjoy it, read the T&C. If you disagree with them, don't take the sweet.

 

[SabreWolfy]

it also says that terms and conditions apply, and if you read those you will see that it specifically states that the accounts are uncapped for active internet use.

we can go on discussing the dictionary definition of "uncapped" for all eternity, but the fact is that Mweb put out their T&C from the start, and that's what they are. this thread is now going around in circles...

+1

 

[SabreWolfy]

Hey I have an idea.
If you're an ISP that promises unlimited, uncapped, internet access... provide it without bitching or STFU and GTFO.

Now that we're on a level playfield... YOU can go ahead and STFU and GTFO.
*******.

Three words: 1. Terms. 2. And. 3. Conditions.

How do I know that this is not the last time I'll have to point this out.

 

[wheunis]

You left out an important part. Here is a sweet. Before you start to enjoy it, read the T&C. If you disagree with them, don't take the sweet.

More like:
Ok kid. Here's the deal. You give me 5 bucks every day, and I give you this never-ending sweet. But, if you like the sweet too much, I'm gonna up the price! DONT YOU DARE LIKE THAT SWEET KID! I WILL KILL YOU! STOP SUCKING THAT SWEET!
DAMMIT GIMME MORE MONEY NOW!
*takes sweet back and runs away*

 

[wheunis]

Three words: 1. Terms. 2. And. 3. Conditions.

How do I know that this is not the last time I'll have to point this out.

4 words back at you.

False.
And.
Misleading.
Advertising.

 

[Necuno]

4 words back at you.

False.
And.
Misleading.
Advertising.

if you feel so strongly about it then go and lay a complaint at asasa.
http://asasa.org.za/Complaint.aspx

 

[SabreWolfy]

4 words back at you.

False.
And.
Misleading.
Advertising.

All contracts and service agreements involve terms and conditions. This is standard practice anywhere and everywhere. If something seems too good to be true, read the T&C first

 

[wheunis]

All contracts and service agreements involve terms and conditions. This is standard practice anywhere and everywhere. If something seems too good to be true, read the T&C first

From MWEB's own webpage:

Is it really Uncapped?
Yes it is. Unlimited data, all the time.

Unlimited data.
All the time.

No T&C in the world can go back and change that.

To begin with, they now tell us we're not allowed to use it 24/7.

So now instead of "Unlimited data, all the time.", we get

"Unlimited data, some of the time"

But they go one step further, and shape everything but browsing so badly during the day, that connections often become completely unusable.

So now, its become: "Unlimited data, sometimes at night"

But seeing as unattended usage is completely unacceptable, we now sit with:

"Unlimited data, sometimes at night, but you better be there to watch it... or else..."

Oh, and now it seems a softcap might come into play, so that brings us to:

"Limited data, sometimes at night, but you better be there to watch it... or else..."


So... exactly how does T&C give you the permission to advertise one way, and offer the complete opposite?

And don't worry your concerned little head about it, Necuno. I already have complained with ASASA.

 

[Alestorm]

*Blah Blah Blah*

Damn you guys can moan about a cheap uncapped service in SA. They are trying quite hard to give a balanced uncapped product at a good price, with reasonable limitations.

Half the stuff you're moaning about doesn't even happen. You're allowed to download without being at your PC obviously, that's not what the T&C are there for, they just have to cover themselves. There's also no softcap?

And most people aren't interested in running some torrents 24/7, having an uncapped account that does P2P at night is really good enough for the price.

Anyway good luck with your complaint, I hardly even believe you're serious but I doubt you'll get anywhere.

 

[wheunis]

<snip>
balanced uncapped product
<snip>
with reasonable limitations.

I do not consider a product working 50% of the time to be balanced.

And the limitations are not as reasonable when you consider that, during the day, you can do NOTHING but web page browsing. And that excludes youtube. Also excludes my awesome bandwidth-hog of an internet radio station, streaming in at a whopping 32kbps. (yes, small letter b. I wrote that right fyi)

Half the stuff you're moaning about doesn't even happen. You're allowed to download without being at your PC obviously, that's not what the T&C are there for, they just have to cover themselves. There's also no softcap?

And most people aren't interested in running some torrents 24/7, having an uncapped account that does P2P at night is really good enough for the price.

Anyway good luck with your complaint, I hardly even believe you're serious but I doubt you'll get anywhere.

Those things do happen. With the amount of people complaining about it, you still think the problem doesn't exist? ... love to see how your relationships work out...

The CEO just came out to relay to us how using your connection unattended is against their T&C's... and STILL you deny that they dont allow it?

If you sell me a product and blatantly advertise "as much as you want, all the time"... i sure as SH*T wont wait until night time to get what I want...


Lastly, I am quite serious. I raised the complaint same day as this little "announcement" of theirs hit the public.

 

[Necuno]

And don't worry your concerned little head about it, Necuno. I already have complained with ASASA.

link to your complaint and ruling ? or did asasa throw it out ?

i'd be curious if asasa had a mind shift since this ruling.

COMPLAINTS
In essence, the complainants submitted that the advertisement is misleading as the word “uncapped” implies limitless access, but the service being offered is limited to specific threshold data usage.

RELEVANT CLAUSE OF THE CODE OF ADVERTISING PRACTICE
In light of the complaint Clause 4.2.1 of Section II (Misleading claims) was taken into account.

RESPONSE
The respondent, submitted, inter alia, that:

* Channel capacity is a finite resource. Using huge amounts of it can be deemed an abuse and Internet Service Providers (ISP’S) often publish policies that clarify the difference between "uncapped" and "unlimited". An analogy to water supplied to an apartment makes the distinction clear: Water comes with the apartment, and is uncapped, but not unlimited. If one uses water in a way that a typical apartment user would, one will have no problems. If however, one leaves all of the faucets running day and night, one can expect the water connection to be turned off or the water pressure to be greatly reduced.

* In order to protect a network, ISPs may introduce fair usage policies in order to provide a positive network experience for the majority, and prevent a small minority from abusing the service.

* Selling an Uncapped ADSL package means that you are selling a package that does not introduce a hardcap once a user reaches a certain bandwidth usage limit. The user must be able to continue using the Internet at all times during the course of a month. Because the user will always have an Internet connection, irrelevant of bandwidth usage, the package remains uncapped.

* No user, irrelevant of usage, will be disconnected from the network and left with no Internet connection. The uncapped package advertised has no ultimate bandwidth cap, thus users will always have an Internet connection, irrelevant of usage.


OPINION
The Directorate requested an opinion from the Internet Service Provider’s Association (ISPA) on the use of the term “Uncapped”. ISPA submitted, inter alia, the following.

* The service offered by Open Web does not, in fact, have a “cap” on the volume of traffic a customer may transmit or receive, but there is a limitation imposed on the speed of the users connection once a certain traffic threshold is reached.

* Given the general understanding in the market of the terms “capped” and “uncapped”, it is reasonable for Open Web to market this service as “uncapped”.

* Perhaps including the rate at which speed is throttled in the advertising would offer even more clarity on this issue for potential customers.


ASA DIRECTORATE RULING
The ASA Directorate considered all the relevant documentation as submitted by the respective parties.

In the interest of equity the respondent was afforded an opportunity to comment on ISPA’s opinion. However, as it did not wish to submit additional comments, the Directorate was able to proceed to rule.

Clause 4.2.1 of Section II states that advertisements should not contain any statement or visual presentation, which directly or by implication, omission, ambiguity, inaccuracy, exaggerated claim or otherwise, is likely to mislead the consumer.

The complainants are of the opinion that the advertisement is misleading as the word “uncapped” implies limitless Internet access. The service, however, is limited to specific amounts of data. Once the stipulated limit is reached, the connection speed is significantly reduced.

The respondent submitted that it is not selling “unlimited” ADSL accounts, but “uncapped” ADSL accounts. Because the user will always have an Internet connection, irrelevant of bandwidth usage, the package remains uncapped. Users who download more than their allocated amount of data are restricted in terms of access speed, but will still have Internet access.

While ISPA accepted that some consumers might attach an incorrect interpretation to the term “uncapped”, it appears of the opinion that the respondent’s practice is common in the industry. It also commended the respondent for the clear explanations it has on its website in this regard.

The Directorate acknowledges that there is some scope for a potential customer to confuse the “threshold” levels as “caps”, but the meaning of the limitations must be assessed in the context they appear. The claim therefore needs to be measured in the context of the respondent’s website.

As mentioned by ISPA, the Directorate notes that positioning the mouse pointer over the “10-day limit threshold”, for example, pops up the following text: “If more than this amount is used within a 10-day rolling period, the connection speed will be limited to half the account speed”. A similar message appears when hovering over the “Monthly Threshold” item.

The word “threshold” also appears with sufficient prominence in the advertising material. A hypothetical reasonable person would associate this word with at least some sort of boundary, or at the very least, the beginning of new conditions. If nothing else, it alerts the consumer to the fact that there is a threshold that could potentially be crossed. The relevant thresholds are also clearly disclosed, along with the message that a breach thereof will result in limited access speeds.

This is distinctly different from models where a user is blocked entirely from accessing Internet content once a specific amount of traffic has been transmitted. According to ISPA, this sort of service is usually referred as a “capped” service. The model used by Open Web does not seem to match the generally understood meaning of a "capped" service, as the flow of information is never stopped. At worst, it is hampered when thresholds are reached, a fact that is clearly communicated to the consumer.

Based on the above the Directorate is of the opinion that the advertisement is not misleading, as it appears ex facie that the services offered by the respondent are “uncapped”. It is therefore not in contravention of Clause 4.2.1 of Section II.

The complaints are dismissed.

 

[SabreWolfy]

Once again I refer everyone in this thread who is getting absolutely hysterical about MWeb and uncapped and what it means and T&C, etc. to read through the the posts here. How are so many people pulling so many GB (many approaching 500GB) per month on such a restrictive, useless, falsely-advertized product? Some people download "only" 250GB per month.

Uncapped is OBVIOUSLY limited. Ths simplest way in which it is limited in the sense of your LINE SPEED. If I'm on 384kbps I can pull AT MOST around 90GB per month. But MWeb advertizes it as "uncapped", so therefore I can complain to them because I can't pull 250GB per month? No, I don't think so.

 

[Necuno]

Once again I refer everyone in this thread who is getting absolutely hysterical about MWeb and uncapped and what it means and T&C, etc. to read through the the posts here. How are so many people pulling so many GB (many approaching 500GB) per month on such a restrictive, useless, falsely-advertized product? Some people download "only" 250GB per month.

Uncapped is OBVIOUSLY limited. Ths simplest way in which it is limited in the sense of your LINE SPEED. If I'm on 384kbps I can pull AT MOST around 90GB per month. But MWeb advertizes it as "uncapped", so therefore I can complain to them because I can't pull 250GB per month? No, I don't think so.

that thread should rather be removed as it encourages usage as an achievement.

 

[wheunis]

link to your complaint and ruling ? or did asasa throw it out ?

i'd be curious if asasa had a mind shift since this ruling.

Except that my complaint is specifically aimed at their "Unlimited data, all the time" mantra that they have splashing all over the place. T&C all you want, thats false advertising.

No I have not yet received any reply back.

 

[Necuno]

Except that my complaint is specifically aimed at their "Unlimited data, all the time" mantra that they have splashing all over the place.

No I have not yet received any reply back.

i took out the irrelevant part since i didn't T&C all i wanted, but asked a question.

normally you get a replay rather quickly, the process well that can take time to get all parties response and then the ruling. i'll still bet and say asasa will dismiss the complaint on the grounds that it is uncapped due to the simple fact that they don't cut you off hence giving your "unlimited" transfer, but not an interrupted service.

 

[racer]

And the limitations are not as reasonable when you consider that, during the day, you can do NOTHING but web page browsing. And that excludes youtube. Also excludes my awesome bandwidth-hog of an internet radio station, streaming in at a whopping 32kbps. (yes, small letter b. I wrote that right fyi)

that's cause all the 500GB/m ppl are raping the network. now you see why they want some people to calm down?

 

[wheunis]

i took out the irrelevant part since i didn't T&C all i wanted, but asked a question.

normally you get a replay rather quickly, the process well that can take time to get all parties response and then the ruling. i'll still bet and say asasa will dismiss the complaint on the grounds that it is uncapped due to the simple fact that they don't cut you off hence giving your "unlimited" transfer, but not an interrupted service.

I didn't complain about caps. I complained specifically about "Unlimited data, all the time" and this recent unveil of "we don't allow 24/7 use" and all that jibbery-joo of "attended usage only" as well as their shaping policies making only http-data usable during the day.

 

[Necuno]

I didn't complain about caps. I complained specifically about "Unlimited data, all the time" and this recent unveil of "we don't allow 24/7 use" and all that jibbery-joo of "attended usage only" as well as their shaping policies making only http-data usable during the day.

good luck, but as i've said unless they actually cut you off you have uncapped with "unlimited" data usage, period. that is how it is seen.