MWEB - Message from CEO - Acceptable Use Policy

[Basjohn]

From time to time we uncover a small number of users that aren’t using the service within our Acceptable Use Policy. This isn’t fair to the majority of our customers as the usage patterns of this group can have a detrimental impact on network performance for everyone. We take the impact that this minority has on the whole user-base very seriously. If a customer is not playing fairly they will be asked to move to a product better suited to their usage needs so that they don’t impact on the enjoyment of everyone else. Here’s to a free, fair and enjoyable web for all!

As soon as you say those lines you are no longer an uncapped service. Spice it however you like, but fair use and unlimited use don't belong in the same argument.
If you have retroactive limits you're softcapped and simply marketing yourselves otherwise by using the same copy-pasted lines I've seen from every local ISP.

End of story.

 

[racer]

Thats one thing! How stupid is this from an ISP CEO.

So If I want to download anything I MUST sit and WATCH the download otherwise I am agaist the TOSC and AUP. What a brainf@rt!

i think any reasonably intelligent person would know that's not quite what he meant.

i believe that all Mweb are asking is that their clients do not have download managers running 24x7.

 

[DJNgoma]

For example if I have a small torrent running at 10kb.s and I open the browser, suddenly everything slows to a crawl.

Solution: cFosSpeed

 

[D34M0n7]

I Sigh at 90% of people here...

I have a fever, headache, haven't eaten for days and can't even walk right now but I still retain my ability to think, which is more than I can say for some.

Although I'll apologize now for spelling and grammatical errors.

Let me start by helping most of you understand the word "Uncapped".

Uncapped does not necessarily mean "unlimited" it means there is no distinct point at which a hard 'cap' or 'limit' is placed upon a service (the service obviously being Internet/ADSL) however just because there is no hard cap does not mean that other limiters cannot be put in place, such as shaping, throttling and AUPs.

For all of you that think UNCAPPED means "Use all you like and go mad because its your birthday boooya I'm going to rape this connection" then perhaps you are not required in the gene pool. NOTE that I am not referring to leechers, I am however referring to people who complain about the existence of an AUP (including forms of shaping and throttling, one however should take this with reason in hand) , their argument being "But its UNCAPPED! I WANT I WANT!! WHAAAA! By my definition UNCAPPED is all and everything I can use! WAA!".

Right, just to clear up whats left of 'Uncapped - The Definition':

Lets all take a neutral stance here, lets take a step back, drop all bias and observe with an open mind.

How Does an ISP get its bandwidth? Well, they have to get both international and local access, both come at a hefty price (this is the case in South Africa).

So ISPs have a FINITE amount of bandwidth at any given time? Yes, they do. And sadly because of the current prices in South Africa its not easy for them to secure too much, in relation to their customer base of course.

What does the FINITE amount of bandwidth imply? Good question! Basically everything you can find in this world will have some implication or another in this case a FINITE amount of bandwidth means that they can't possibly ever (in fact it will never be possible, ever) provide limitless download/upload speeds as for obvious reasons.

I Understand that there is no such thing as INFINITE bandwidth but can't they secure enough, so everyone is kept happy? No, not at these prices, not now. Perhaps if they charged a few thousand for a basic package they could but it would cost too much and no one would be interested in the product.

Alright, Alright. So how the hell does an ISP balance the load if they can't secure exactly as much bandwidth as they sell, tell me that!! Well, they use shaping, throttling and contention ratios. Shaping is giving a lower priority to a specific protocol on the network, most ISPs shape P2P thereby giving it a low priority on the network so people who use the internet for things like browsing are not affected. Throttling is limiting the speed of the actual connection such as a 4mb/s connection down to 1mb/s. The last, which ALL ISPs use is contention ratios.

Whats a contention ratio? ISPs use contention ratios to make money, without them they would make a loss and you would not have internet. say an SP has a 1GB/s pipe if they sell exactly the amount of bandwidth that they have for the average cost of an ADSL account then they would not have a third of what its costing them, in this case. So you can see that they are running on a loss, so instead of selling 1GB/s they sell 5GB/s and they start making money. This is where AUPs come in, because you SHARE a connection with people you have to act responsibly in order to avoid affecting the other users in a negative way.

__

I'll have to end this here, my fever is picking up.

Whats Happening is people are abusing the service, they are affecting others and breaching the AUPs, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[FeralBanana]

Real issue

I have no problem with a fair use policy that allows everyone a decent shot at getting stable internet.

I have a problem when such a policy does not allow me to actually have stable internet.

Backstory:

I use, on average, about 8GB per month. That's pretty reasonable, given some of the numbers I've seen tossed around. However, my internet speeds have been utterly terrible.

So, with this:

You are currently registered on an Uncapped ADSL 4096 - Bus product.

I get a result of this:

... which doesn't seem that bad.

In reality, however, sites don't work about 75% of the time (major offenders consistently include Twitter, Facebook and images not loading on imgfave/webcomics etc). When it does work, speeds go down to 512k level (saix speedtest). Tried playing CoD4 earlier and kept getting connection issues rendering it unplayable. It seems almost as if the internet just cuts out entirely every few seconds.

Just got back from a few months away from home, and I had heard about SEACOM's issues, but according to the MWEB website (and other sources), that should be resolved now. The temporary solutions are supposed to be able to handle the traffic, correct?

Anyway, the point is:
I am not an 'overuser'. Why is my internet experience still so terrible, MWEB?

Please have an AUP that stops this, or have no AUP at all.

 

[D34M0n7]

I have no problem with a fair use policy that allows everyone a decent shot at getting stable internet.

I have a problem when such a policy does not allow me to actually have stable internet.

Please have an AUP that stops this, or have no AUP at all.

Seems like there is something wrong with your line there, especially if websites are timing out 75% of the time, do a few ping tests and post them.

I advise contacting telkom and asking them to resync your line if you haven't already done that.

You also seem to be on a business product, those have a low contention ratio so it wont be that at all.

 

[Basjohn]

I Sigh at 90% of people here...

I have a fever, headache, haven't eaten for days and can't even walk right now but I still retain my ability to think, which is more than I can say for some.

Although I'll apologize now for spelling and grammatical errors.

Let me start by helping most of you understand the word "Uncapped".

Uncapped does not necessarily mean "unlimited" it means there is no distinct point at which a hard 'cap' or 'limit' is placed upon a service (the service obviously being Internet/ADSL) however just because there is no hard cap does not mean that other limiters cannot be put in place, such as shaping, throttling and AUPs.

For all of you that think UNCAPPED means "Use all you like and go mad because its your birthday boooya I'm going to rape this connection" then perhaps you are not required in the gene pool. NOTE that I am not referring to leechers, I am however referring to people who complain about the existence of an AUP (including forms of shaping and throttling, one however should take this with reason in hand) , their argument being "But its UNCAPPED! I WANT I WANT!! WHAAAA! By my definition UNCAPPED is all and everything I can use! WAA!".

Right, just to clear up whats left of 'Uncapped - The Definition':

Lets all take a neutral stance here, lets take a step back, drop all bias and observe with an open mind.

How Does an ISP get its bandwidth? Well, they have to get both international and local access, both come at a hefty price (this is the case in South Africa).

So ISPs have a FINITE amount of bandwidth at any given time? Yes, they do. And sadly because of the current prices in South Africa its not easy for them to secure too much, in relation to their customer base of course.

What does the FINITE amount of bandwidth imply? Good question! Basically everything you can find in this world will have some implication or another in this case a FINITE amount of bandwidth means that they can't possibly ever (in fact it will never be possible, ever) provide limitless download/upload speeds as for obvious reasons.

I Understand that there is no such thing as INFINITE bandwidth but can't they secure enough, so everyone is kept happy? No, not at these prices, not now. Perhaps if they charged a few thousand for a basic package they could but it would cost too much and no one would be interested in the product.

Alright, Alright. So how the hell does an ISP balance the load if they can't secure exactly as much bandwidth as they sell, tell me that!! Well, they use shaping, throttling and contention ratios. Shaping is giving a lower priority to a specific protocol on the network, most ISPs shape P2P thereby giving it a low priority on the network so people who use the internet for things like browsing are not affected. Throttling is limiting the speed of the actual connection such as a 4mb/s connection down to 1mb/s. The last, which ALL ISPs use is contention ratios.

Whats a contention ratio? ISPs use contention ratios to make money, without them they would make a loss and you would not have internet. say an SP has a 1GB/s pipe if they sell exactly the amount of bandwidth that they have for the average cost of an ADSL account then they would not have a third of what its costing them, in this case. So you can see that they are running on a loss, so instead of selling 1GB/s they sell 5GB/s and they start making money. This is where AUPs come in, because you SHARE a connection with people you have to act responsibly in order to avoid affecting the other users in a negative way.

__

I'll have to end this here, my fever is picking up.

Whats Happening is people are abusing the service, they are affecting others and breaching the AUPs, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

It's nice how your post contains unneeded insults towards people you've never met, I'm sure everyone appreciates that.

My bitterness at your bitterness aside.

A Cap.

Cap is in place to close things.

To limit them.

Uncapped=Unlimited.

It's not arguing, it's English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cap

(See no. 9 & 26)

I'm not sure about everyone else in this thread, but MY point. MY point is that you should not sell a service you cannot offer. If it is not uncapped it is not uncapped.

I understand contention ratios, shaping and everything else concerned (I'm in networking and have worked for an ISP on the network level so this is no surprise) but that isn't the point.

Sell uncapped if it is truly uncapped. Sell SOFTcapped if it is softcapped.

Simple and clean.

 

[racer]

I understand contention ratios, shaping and everything else concerned (I'm in networking and have worked for an ISP on the network level so this is no surprise) but that isn't the point.

Sell uncapped if it is truly uncapped. Sell SOFTcapped if it is softcapped.

Simple and clean.

but it is uncapped isn't it? i don't think anyone has been capped, or stopped or even warned to stop.

if you understand contention ratios, then you should also understand why they're asking that people slow down on the constant 24x7 downloads as well...

if their contention ratio is 1:50 and every customer is downloading all the time, then do the maths....

 

[Basjohn]

Indeed I understand WHY they ask that but they simply shouldn't.

Not on a product that calls itself uncapped.

It's not uncapped if there are mysterious barrier limits to the amount downloaded that a policy dictates. It's uncapped if there are no limits.

EVER.

I'm complaining about a definition here more than a process. Nothing against shaping, nothing against even capping........but an awful lot against calling it uncapped when it is softcapped.

False marketing is the bane of everyone and while my little rant will do little to curb it, I find it important to not simply let it slide unabated.

 

[racer]

It's not uncapped if there are mysterious barrier limits ...

Mweb should have just marketed it as a 50GB account and everyone woulda been happy. wooh, 50GB instead of 3GB for the same price!

that way, lots of happy people would have been downloading happily and the gluttons who need to grab 300GB every month would have had to buy 6 accounts..... fair's fair!

 

[RJ MWEB]

Let me try and explain this differently. You joined MWEB’s uncapped service and contracted with MWEB. When you feel we do not deliver the right quality you phone us or in a number of cases you post it here. We are really committed to offering the best service out there, so we try and get to most posts and fix the problems. We are not perfect but I guarantee you that we try to cater for everybody’s needs.

We had some problems with the IPC and Telkom network capacity issues, exchanges that are overloaded and then the international issues. We are making good progress on all of them and with our engagement with the various parties. A number of initiatives are in the pipeline to ensure that we continue to build on and improve our service.

That said, we designed the uncapped shaped product to cater for the individual including your household. The unshaped product is for business and multiple users or the heavy users. Now keep that in mind.

What the unshaped product was not designed to do was to cater for multiple users to share the account. Or the two or more braches of your business sharing your account over multiple locations. Cyber cafés, ISP’s and people that host behind this product are abusing the service. Some other examples are the people constantly trying to get past the shaping rules that are there to make it fair for all. And if you look at the forums there are a whole number of them around. If shaping is such a major issue for you then subscribe to our unshaped product, that’s why we have one!

We have no intention of capping the service, but these users of the product are using bandwidth in a way it was not intended to be used and spoiling everybody else’s experience. So this is not some draconian application of the T&C as some suggest here. It is simply to say where there are people not using the product for its intended use, you must either move to the correct product or we will not offer this service to you. MWEB will keep our end up, but we need you to keep your end up as well. Most do, but a very small handful do spoil the service for others.

We remain uncapped!

Rudi

 

[D34M0n7]

Once again I sigh... And Sigh...

There is no such thing as "Uncapped" by how most of you are trying to define it. Uncapped in terms of internet means there is no point at which your access is cut off, you have to apply something called logic, if you have heard of it.

MWEB ARE selling an Uncapped service, it does not matter how you want to define uncapped it does not matter what you want it to be. It is the way it is.

I'll give you some quotes on webhosting which are applicable here as well.

"Unlimited Disk Space and Unlimited Bandwidth?

Logically, unlimited bandwidth and unlimited hosting disk space is IMPOSSIBLE! At least not, with shared servers which are concerned here. Even a powerful dedicated server cannot offer you unlimited bandwidth and unlimited disk space. Just think about it, have you ever seen a computer with an unlimited power? No!"

Let me remind you that you ADSL connection is a SHARED service!! SIGH!

"No servers in the world can give you an unlimited bandwidth. Many people when buying a hosting account are lured to this slogan and start dreaming to have their own little Rapidshare clone or even Facebook clone. Stop dreaming! Sites like Rapidshare, Facebook and even Google have hundreds to thousands or servers. They do not use a simple shared server account from some Bluehost or Fody Host."

Same goes for ADSL, NO SUCH THING AS UNLIMITED! ESPECIALLY ON A SHARED SERVICE!!!!!

Note: I am not saying its bad or evil to use these slogans! This is marketing and since everyone use it, all the others too use it but if you read the tos you will see these details.

If unlimited bandwidth would have been true, then the whole world would be transferring GBs of ripped DVDs each minute right now by paying a small hosting server at $6 per month. If you really want to start a file sharing website, then go for a powerful dedicated server which cost normally over $100/month for the basic.

Are you starting to get the general idea?

When you choose a host, you need to know what is your expected bandwidth usage per month and be sure you get a package that can satisfy your needs.

Uncapped does not mean Unlimited, there is no such thing as unlimited, unlimited implies INFINITE which for us humans, is impossible to achieve. Think People!

Why don't you all complain that you are limited by the maximum speed of your line, by your logic, because you are limited by the speed of the actual line its not uncapped.

Once again, UNCAPPED INTERNET ACCESS means that there is no cap placed on the account, however because it is a shared service you must bide by the rules of the AUP as not to affect everyone else.

To use a rough analogy: If you have a 50GB cap but connect to the account using a 100GB/s line and start to download but you cause massive amounts of strain on the network and slow everyone else down you will be in breach of an AUP. Don't complain that its your bandwidth to do with what you like, because its NOT, you pay for a service with an attached AUP and therefore must abide by it or move away.

If you want the closest possible to a "ZOMG BW DL DL DL WHOOO" account then spend R20 000 a month and get a leased bloody line.

 

[Lino]

Let me try and explain this differently. You joined MWEB’s uncapped service and contracted with MWEB. When you feel we do not deliver the right quality you phone us or in a number of cases you post it here. We are really committed to offering the best service out there, so we try and get to most posts and fix the problems. We are not perfect but I guarantee you that we try to cater for everybody’s needs.

We had some problems with the IPC and Telkom network capacity issues, exchanges that are overloaded and then the international issues. We are making good progress on all of them and with our engagement with the various parties. A number of initiatives are in the pipeline to ensure that we continue to build on and improve our service.

That said, we designed the uncapped shaped product to cater for the individual including your household. The unshaped product is for business and multiple users or the heavy users. Now keep that in mind.

What the unshaped product was not designed to do was to cater for multiple users to share the account. Or the two or more braches of your business sharing your account over multiple locations. Cyber cafés, ISP’s and people that host behind this product are abusing the service. Some other examples are the people constantly trying to get past the shaping rules that are there to make it fair for all. And if you look at the forums there are a whole number of them around. If shaping is such a major issue for you then subscribe to our unshaped product, that’s why we have one!

We have no intention of capping the service, but these users of the product are using bandwidth in a way it was not intended to be used and spoiling everybody else’s experience. So this is not some draconian application of the T&C as some suggest here. It is simply to say where there are people not using the product for its intended use, you must either move to the correct product or we will not offer this service to you. MWEB will keep our end up, but we need you to keep your end up as well. Most do, but a very small handful do spoil the service for others.

We remain uncapped!

Rudi

You get some of us here who surf the net and download quite a lot. Are we considered abusers? On that count do you know how many time I have complained to MWEB that my HTTP timeouts constantly? In my line is fine even MWEB got Telkom to test it. The only thing I am usually able to do with this account is download.

 

[Vrotappel]

Let me try and explain this differently. You joined MWEB’s uncapped service and contracted with MWEB. When you feel we do not deliver the right quality you phone us or in a number of cases you post it here. We are really committed to offering the best service out there, so we try and get to most posts and fix the problems. We are not perfect but I guarantee you that we try to cater for everybody’s needs.

We had some problems with the IPC and Telkom network capacity issues, exchanges that are overloaded and then the international issues. We are making good progress on all of them and with our engagement with the various parties. A number of initiatives are in the pipeline to ensure that we continue to build on and improve our service.

That said, we designed the uncapped shaped product to cater for the individual including your household. The unshaped product is for business and multiple users or the heavy users. Now keep that in mind.

What the unshaped product was not designed to do was to cater for multiple users to share the account. Or the two or more braches of your business sharing your account over multiple locations. Cyber cafés, ISP’s and people that host behind this product are abusing the service. Some other examples are the people constantly trying to get past the shaping rules that are there to make it fair for all. And if you look at the forums there are a whole number of them around. If shaping is such a major issue for you then subscribe to our unshaped product, that’s why we have one!

We have no intention of capping the service, but these users of the product are using bandwidth in a way it was not intended to be used and spoiling everybody else’s experience. So this is not some draconian application of the T&C as some suggest here. It is simply to say where there are people not using the product for its intended use, you must either move to the correct product or we will not offer this service to you. MWEB will keep our end up, but we need you to keep your end up as well. Most do, but a very small handful do spoil the service for others.

We remain uncapped!

Rudi

Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully you'll continually improve by reducing shaping. Sometimes my astraweb account is shaped into being useless.

 

[Moodtec]

Hi MWEB, I don't think the issue here is that you are enforcing your T&C's, I mean I read them and agreed to them when I signed up (and I still do agree with them). Having a 4MB line I only use my MWEB connection for a few hours every day (I would say avg. 4hrs) even with this limited use a 4MB line can rack up some serious data usage - now is this a problem??? SAOL started in very the same way as MWEB did their Uncapped internet, no limits etc, ect then started moaning about T&C's then finally anyone who exceeded a certain numer on GB got called and their contracts cancelled with very little warning. So don't say this is not about number of GB's downloaded - be upfront and give us an indication!!

Bypasing shaping - against T&C's - we know
Sharing connection or using it as business connection - against T&C's - we know.
FUP - incorporates the above as well as amount used - we don't know..........

Finaly I would just like to add MWEB does have the best uncapped product out their so in no way is this message a complaint on your service etc.

 

[Kosmik]

Thankyou for the feedback Rudi.

Hey Saber, sounds very similar to what I said earlier, its the folks trying to get around the shaping that are pissing them off.

 

[Lino]

I tell you what grinds me, when on a Sunday morning at 9am I am not downloading anything but I still can't watch a Youtube clip! On a 4mb line FFS, what is the excuse for this?

 

[Necuno]

o my god !!!!! i am abuser !!!! i share a line with my wife !!!! o my god !!!!

**** !!! the xbox360 too !!!

 

[Moodtec]

o my god !!!!! i am abuser !!!! i share a line with my wife !!!! o my god !!!!

**** !!! the xbox too !!!

LOL, the party is over

 

[AntiThesis]

It would be really swell if people would actually read the thread before going bat**** crazy and posting stuff about "OMFG! MWEBS ARE THROTTLING/TELLING ME IMMA ABUSER NAO!"

Seriously... your wife and kids can use your internet. What you CAN'T do is sell it to other people as is the case with an internet cafe or those dodgy wireless providers you get every now and then.
Also seriously... has anyone EVER been moved to another account by MWEB? I've done 50 odd gigs this month without even vaguely trying and before that I've done > 250GB and never, ever received a call. Know why? Because I do it within the terms of the AUP.

All they're saying here... and it's really this simple is: Don't circumvent the network shaping (duh), don't run a business off a non-commercial product (duh) and don't use 100% of the line 24/7 unless you're sitting in front of the PC and actually bloody using it. It's not that hard to understand, it's not rocket science.

Further, if you're using a 4mb line and can't watch youtube videos, SOMETHING IS WRONG THERE. I can happily stream HD youtube on my Mweb product with no issues. Seriously, get it checked out. I watched the friggin' trinations yesterday over streaming for pity's sake.

Even further, if you're unhappy with MWEB and feel they haven't represented themselves properly or just can't be bothered to help you or are providing a bad service or are being sneaky (Tanya35, I'm looking at you) - there's really only one thing left for you to do. Exercise your right to leave and GTFO to another ISP. The people quietly using huge amounts of BW for a tiny amount of money (I'm at ~R9.80/GB at the moment) thank you in advance for not cluttering up our network with your problems.

*waits for responses of "but it's not..."* Bah.