From about 6pm the high pings began and yes I only seem to be having issues with gaming. Twitch, newshost etc are fine. I will try again in the morning and hopefully everything will be back to normal.
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MWEB Uncapped ADSL Feedback - Part 3
- Thread starter scienide
- Start date
MWEB Guy, I am able to run skype for some reason, and go on one specific website (Official SWTOR forums) but that's it, nothing else that I have tried works at all (gaming, sites etc). The dsl light is blinking excessively.
Hey guys, I haven't followed all the threads, news about the whole throttle system.
ADSL Usage - (August, 2013)
You have used 78.77 GB so far this month.
(this is on a Home Premium 4MBIT Uncapped account)
Not throttled yet but curious, how badly is one throttled?
I'm quite shocked they haven't revealed what is deemed abusive and I certainly never received an MWEB email stating there's a new policy or change to their AUP.
If the new AUP is in effect already, why have they not notified their customers via Email or SMS?
ADSL Usage - (August, 2013)
You have used 78.77 GB so far this month.
(this is on a Home Premium 4MBIT Uncapped account)
Not throttled yet but curious, how badly is one throttled?
I'm quite shocked they haven't revealed what is deemed abusive and I certainly never received an MWEB email stating there's a new policy or change to their AUP.
If the new AUP is in effect already, why have they not notified their customers via Email or SMS?
@Mweb people:
Here is my 4c on the throttling... without lots of rage and nasty words:
1.) Sending emails warning users about their high usage to pretty much all your users is just counter-productive. Making that email unclear and not giving specific boundaries is even less useful. What you have basically done is told a big portion of your vocal userbase they a.) find another package/ ISP or b.) watch their data usage and feel guilty when it goes too high. It seems that 100gb was the complaint point, but the system definitely needs some work.
2.) Most of the power users still on your network are people who are a.) smart enough to move if they want to (think this thread has more than proved that) and b.) people who were basically happy with your service. Right now I am in group B.
Now for me and my family that has meant:
a.) web browsing, email, youtube and gaming gets priority,
b.) downloads run when they can: they don't crawl along but if they don't get full (or even 1/2) speed during the day we don't care (but since they do run pretty well at night this has never been an issue),
c.) when stuff breaks you get it fixed (or at least patched) as soon as possible, which you have done most of the time (like when SEACOM broke you got bandwidth elsewhere and web browsing kept on working).
I would like to stay in group B. I am more than happy with the overall performance of group B. But if I end up in group C ("you downloaded too much now sit in the corner") I will probably end up in group A.
3.) This has worked out into a social (or otherwise) contract of sorts: we (your userbase) need to be good network users, and you provide us with a good network. This means that we don't try to get around your magic shaping box/ network management system, and you make sure it gives us a fair internet experience. This has been my experience up until now for the most part.
This said, if there are users who are abusing the system and messing with your network, it is your job to chase them away.
4.) Throttling is a bad word. If I use too much data doing whatever I then can't use the internet properly for the stuff I really need (such as email). The bandwidth shaping system was supposed to make sure this never happened: high bandwidth protocols get pushed to the bottom of the pile so that the important ones get to run nicely.
5.) I tried to find international statistics about data usage on landlines. I didn't have much luck. Seems the rest of the world is more concerned about mobile data. I do know though that 100gb a month works out to 3gb per day. And it seems between the three users, 5 PCs/laptops, 3 smartphones and 2 tablets that is a really easy target to hit. To be honest it's probably not too hard to do that sitting on youtube for a few hours all by yourself with a smartphone.
6.) Your definition of abuse is a little difficult to quantify (especially when you don't give us figures). I use about 200gb/m on a 2mb line and pretty much all of that data is consumed (played/ watched/ read/ listened to). There is no "downloading the whole internet". It's just normal usage in my opinion. But here are some actual figures:
A 2mb (200kb/s download speed) line running at line speed 24/7 would download a maximum of 17gb per day. This works out to 510gb per month. There would be another chunk of upstream bandwidth, but lets just round it down to 500gb. (Following from this a 4mb account has a theoretical maximum of 1tb per month download capacity).
Now this means that my average of about 200gb/m (rough average over the last 6 months) is less than 50% of my line capacity. I don't think this counts as abusive, nor excessive. Maybe I am wrong though. You will have to tell me.
That said previous statements have said that the new policies will only effect the top 3% of the userbase. I really have trouble believing that 50% line usage puts me in the top 3% of users. I have an even harder time believing that only 3% of the userbase exceed 100gb a month. Again, maybe I am wrong, but it seems unlikely that there are so few people pushing their line to it's limit all day every day. Or people getting around the system (which I was disturbed to read is easy to do. I know it is, but your company shouldn't admit it so freely).
Some people do not play nice with others and want to keep all the toys and sweets to themselves instead of sharing. In my experience these people make up more than 3% of the population.
7.) A lot of the users that have left your service because of this announcement were probably power users of some sort or another. You know, the guy at the office that everyone else goes to for technical help... or technical advice. The smart kid up the street who helps half of the street keep their 10 year old PCs running. The people who work in the local computer shop who answer a thousand questions a week about what to buy and where to buy it. This group might be the more bandwidth intensive part of your customer base, but they also often work as defacto brand ambassadors. If their home/ work internet works well they will recommend your service to other people. They will defend your company when someone says bad stuff if it doesn't line up with their own experiences.
They will also tell all their friends, co workers, neighbours and customers when things go badly.
Alienating this group isn't a good idea, and I really hope someone in your marketing department pointed this out. You are basically scaring off your best method of advertising with one dumb email and a lack of real responses.
8.) Bandwidth usage will always go up, never down (unless someone comes up with a crazy compression formula or something. Chasing away the high bandwidth users is a short term solution at best. At some point even the grannies are going to discover YouTube and spend hours watching cat videos like the rest of us.
Now personally I am going to wait and see how this whole thing plays out. Hopefully the throttling will only effect the top 3%. Hopefully it will be a reasonable policy which doesn't change a thing for the rest of us. I am not holding my breath though... this is very badly thought out move which is badly implemented and has already backfired pretty badly by the looks of things (I imagine that the suit who occasionally wanders into the server room and complains about the air conditioning costing too much is the same guy who thought this idea up). Like most other power users I have other options: backup accounts and the like because that is just what you do when you need to test line vs ISP problems. If I move I will probably take one or two people with me though.
Here is something to think about though: MWeb built up a lot of reputation and social capital by getting the South African Uncapped Revolution going. One company forced all the rest to change their policies, and then get their product offerings up to scratch. Other companies used cheaper methods of bandwidth control like throttling and found it less than effective, and a lot of customers found MWeb's way of doing things better.
In less than a month most of the social capital MWeb earned from this has been destroyed, along with a portion of their reputation. If this is the cost and the problem lies with 3% of the customer base, how does this move make any sense at all?
Here is my 4c on the throttling... without lots of rage and nasty words:
1.) Sending emails warning users about their high usage to pretty much all your users is just counter-productive. Making that email unclear and not giving specific boundaries is even less useful. What you have basically done is told a big portion of your vocal userbase they a.) find another package/ ISP or b.) watch their data usage and feel guilty when it goes too high. It seems that 100gb was the complaint point, but the system definitely needs some work.
2.) Most of the power users still on your network are people who are a.) smart enough to move if they want to (think this thread has more than proved that) and b.) people who were basically happy with your service. Right now I am in group B.
Now for me and my family that has meant:
a.) web browsing, email, youtube and gaming gets priority,
b.) downloads run when they can: they don't crawl along but if they don't get full (or even 1/2) speed during the day we don't care (but since they do run pretty well at night this has never been an issue),
c.) when stuff breaks you get it fixed (or at least patched) as soon as possible, which you have done most of the time (like when SEACOM broke you got bandwidth elsewhere and web browsing kept on working).
I would like to stay in group B. I am more than happy with the overall performance of group B. But if I end up in group C ("you downloaded too much now sit in the corner") I will probably end up in group A.
3.) This has worked out into a social (or otherwise) contract of sorts: we (your userbase) need to be good network users, and you provide us with a good network. This means that we don't try to get around your magic shaping box/ network management system, and you make sure it gives us a fair internet experience. This has been my experience up until now for the most part.
This said, if there are users who are abusing the system and messing with your network, it is your job to chase them away.
4.) Throttling is a bad word. If I use too much data doing whatever I then can't use the internet properly for the stuff I really need (such as email). The bandwidth shaping system was supposed to make sure this never happened: high bandwidth protocols get pushed to the bottom of the pile so that the important ones get to run nicely.
5.) I tried to find international statistics about data usage on landlines. I didn't have much luck. Seems the rest of the world is more concerned about mobile data. I do know though that 100gb a month works out to 3gb per day. And it seems between the three users, 5 PCs/laptops, 3 smartphones and 2 tablets that is a really easy target to hit. To be honest it's probably not too hard to do that sitting on youtube for a few hours all by yourself with a smartphone.
6.) Your definition of abuse is a little difficult to quantify (especially when you don't give us figures). I use about 200gb/m on a 2mb line and pretty much all of that data is consumed (played/ watched/ read/ listened to). There is no "downloading the whole internet". It's just normal usage in my opinion. But here are some actual figures:
A 2mb (200kb/s download speed) line running at line speed 24/7 would download a maximum of 17gb per day. This works out to 510gb per month. There would be another chunk of upstream bandwidth, but lets just round it down to 500gb. (Following from this a 4mb account has a theoretical maximum of 1tb per month download capacity).
Now this means that my average of about 200gb/m (rough average over the last 6 months) is less than 50% of my line capacity. I don't think this counts as abusive, nor excessive. Maybe I am wrong though. You will have to tell me.
That said previous statements have said that the new policies will only effect the top 3% of the userbase. I really have trouble believing that 50% line usage puts me in the top 3% of users. I have an even harder time believing that only 3% of the userbase exceed 100gb a month. Again, maybe I am wrong, but it seems unlikely that there are so few people pushing their line to it's limit all day every day. Or people getting around the system (which I was disturbed to read is easy to do. I know it is, but your company shouldn't admit it so freely).
Some people do not play nice with others and want to keep all the toys and sweets to themselves instead of sharing. In my experience these people make up more than 3% of the population.
7.) A lot of the users that have left your service because of this announcement were probably power users of some sort or another. You know, the guy at the office that everyone else goes to for technical help... or technical advice. The smart kid up the street who helps half of the street keep their 10 year old PCs running. The people who work in the local computer shop who answer a thousand questions a week about what to buy and where to buy it. This group might be the more bandwidth intensive part of your customer base, but they also often work as defacto brand ambassadors. If their home/ work internet works well they will recommend your service to other people. They will defend your company when someone says bad stuff if it doesn't line up with their own experiences.
They will also tell all their friends, co workers, neighbours and customers when things go badly.
Alienating this group isn't a good idea, and I really hope someone in your marketing department pointed this out. You are basically scaring off your best method of advertising with one dumb email and a lack of real responses.
8.) Bandwidth usage will always go up, never down (unless someone comes up with a crazy compression formula or something. Chasing away the high bandwidth users is a short term solution at best. At some point even the grannies are going to discover YouTube and spend hours watching cat videos like the rest of us.
Now personally I am going to wait and see how this whole thing plays out. Hopefully the throttling will only effect the top 3%. Hopefully it will be a reasonable policy which doesn't change a thing for the rest of us. I am not holding my breath though... this is very badly thought out move which is badly implemented and has already backfired pretty badly by the looks of things (I imagine that the suit who occasionally wanders into the server room and complains about the air conditioning costing too much is the same guy who thought this idea up). Like most other power users I have other options: backup accounts and the like because that is just what you do when you need to test line vs ISP problems. If I move I will probably take one or two people with me though.
Here is something to think about though: MWeb built up a lot of reputation and social capital by getting the South African Uncapped Revolution going. One company forced all the rest to change their policies, and then get their product offerings up to scratch. Other companies used cheaper methods of bandwidth control like throttling and found it less than effective, and a lot of customers found MWeb's way of doing things better.
In less than a month most of the social capital MWeb earned from this has been destroyed, along with a portion of their reputation. If this is the cost and the problem lies with 3% of the customer base, how does this move make any sense at all?
I'm fine with them throttling providing:
1) They throttle excessive long term abusers not general power users.
2) Are perfectly clear about what is 'excessive'
3) Are perfectly clear about how much you will be throttled and what minimum speeds will be
4) Announce, via email the changes to their AUP a month before it goes into place so that users can cancel if they deem the AUP changes are not to their liking.
If I'm paying a consistent amount of money every month I expect consistency in the service.
I'd also like to receive notifications of Seacom failures, to my knowledge I have never received emails when Seacom has had outages, I just checked my email and from what I can see and remember I never received a single notification.
I'm not dissing MWEB - they have been very good in the past and the service is mostly reliable but I think we should be notified properly, I shouldn't have to read about major changes to a usage policy or about outages in the press / forums.
1) They throttle excessive long term abusers not general power users.
2) Are perfectly clear about what is 'excessive'
3) Are perfectly clear about how much you will be throttled and what minimum speeds will be
4) Announce, via email the changes to their AUP a month before it goes into place so that users can cancel if they deem the AUP changes are not to their liking.
If I'm paying a consistent amount of money every month I expect consistency in the service.
I'd also like to receive notifications of Seacom failures, to my knowledge I have never received emails when Seacom has had outages, I just checked my email and from what I can see and remember I never received a single notification.
I'm not dissing MWEB - they have been very good in the past and the service is mostly reliable but I think we should be notified properly, I shouldn't have to read about major changes to a usage policy or about outages in the press / forums.
Necuno
Court Jester
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
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Kindly provide us these limits. You keep on saying keep withing the limits, but you forget to give us the limits.
If you need an example this might help:
ISPs that had rolling windows with clear limits: (Of course there is others who also had their limits clarified...)
- Web Africa - Limits Defined
- Axxess - Limits Defined
- Afrihost - Limits Defined
- Isat - Limits Defined
- WebNow - Limits Defined
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10945351&viewfull=1#post10945351 - *Mweb School package, ±286GB per month.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10938227&viewfull=1#post10938227 - ±120GB per month.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10938367&viewfull=1#post10938367 - ±130GB per month.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=10934953#post10934953 - *Call center: letters were sent to all those using more than 100GB.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=10923175#post10923175 - *±140GB per month and Call center: letters were sent to all those using more than 100GB.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10937951&viewfull=1#post10937951 - Since Aug 2012 up to now ±200GB in total.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10937975&viewfull=1#post10937975 - *Average for the last 12 months is only 20.3GB per month. Highest monthly usage was 33GB.
- http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthr...se-notices?p=10937985&viewfull=1#post10937985 - *Capped user on 15GB p/m.
IMHO I agree with DJ... and mweb should be boycotted as much as possible. They much like Microsoft with the xbox one wants you to just stomach it because it is good for you.
Last edited:
HelterSkelter
Expert Member
@ MWEB Guy, same thing as above this morning. However, I noticed another site that works (www.avpgalaxy.net) but everyone else still not working at all.
Could this be a line issue? Will have to report it then tonight when I get from work.
F1ve_Claw
Expert Member
I have the same thing. Everything but Skype is dead until I connect through a secondary PPPOE connection then everything is fine. This cannot remain a permanent fix though :\
Edit: seems I can send/receive messages through whatsapp but not pictures
Robin Hood
Expert Member
know what? You DO have a point....I never thought about it....
Robin Hood
Expert Member
I want to ask the "uncapped guru's " something. Seeing i'm still a n00b when it comes to Mweb's Uncapped and have been "throttled" at about 41gig in the past, i need the following info:
a) Night time vs Day-time...Do you get throttled if your MAJOR usage/downloads is during the day? or...
b) Doesn't it matter WHEN you download...as long as you don't go over a certain amount of data...
...tia
a) Night time vs Day-time...Do you get throttled if your MAJOR usage/downloads is during the day? or...
b) Doesn't it matter WHEN you download...as long as you don't go over a certain amount of data...
...tia
Classically MWeb has used shaping rather than throttling.
Throttling = limiting the ADSL connection so everything runs slower
Shaping = limiting the speed on certain types of downloads, but the connection stays the same
So previously you should never have been throttled on Mweb (according to their ToS and advertising), but you might have got slower downloads off certain protocols (UseNet or Torrents).
Throttling is bad because of your two questions. Shaping normally gets lifted at night as the network usage drops so downloads can run faster. Throttling (depending how they do it) will reduce your speed all the time. Shaping doesn't care how much you download, but will reduce the speed on certain protocols at certain times. Throttling (again depending how they do it) will reduce your speed once you hit a certain amount of data, or are in the top x% of users.
How they actually implement it (ie downloads at night don't count or if there are different levels of throttling) remain to be explained.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2010
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- 10,689
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Hi Gimaru
If the only a certain site can't open on your ADSL connection but does work fine on 3G, then a Telkom (FQ) fault needs to be logged.
Have you tested the site on different browsers or tried opening by clicking on start > Computer (typing it in: enter ) and see if it opens that way?
Hmm so I'm not the only one.
Since when have you had this problem? Only noticed last night here after work.
Will try my Afrihost account tonight to see if it does the same, then log a Telkom fault if unsuccessful.
Last edited:
Archer
Honorary Master
Cant... !@#%%!@#... log in... to client panel...
- Joined
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Cant... !@#%%!@#... log in... to client panel...
Hi Archer
Is this via My Account or your website CPanel?
Archer
Honorary Master
My account
I haven't logged in in ages so maybe I'm doing something wrong but I can't get anywhere useful. Even the link in the invoice email to update my details just takes me to the ADSL product pages
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2010
- Messages
- 10,689
- Reaction score
- 7
Send me a PM with your MWEB details.
Archer
Honorary Master
Thanks for the assist MWEB Guy, seems I am an idiot and was using the wrong username to login with 
Robin Hood
Expert Member
Thx HeXd...I was definitely throttled for 2 whole days...whether it was night OR day with Mweb...( at 41Gig download on day 12 )
Line = 4mbps