Name and Shame: Unauthorised Debit Orders Thread

I also just noticed I got the same debit order for R99 on Friday. Had a online chat with the FNB lady via the app and according to them the commpany name is CALL CENTRE AGENT and the contact name is BUSINESS ONLINE CALL CETRE.

With FNB you can stop the debit order on the app and website and also reverse the transcation by logging a dispute ont eh app or site -- but not on a weekend since they don't work weekend -- yes rather strange for an online system to not work cause the people aren't at the office
 
It's not that people aren't at the office, it's that transactions are not processed on weekends
 
Sinbad said:
It's not that people aren't at the office, it's that transactions are not processed on weekends
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agreed, but it is not possible to log the dispute -- the system actually doesn't work and the response I got is that it is because they don't work on Sundays
 
FrankLee said:
Now what really annoys me is that PASA supposedly has their so-called DEBI-CHECK out and fully operational with ALL banks as from the 1st of August 2018 according to this report in fin24:
https://www.fin24.com/Money/Banking/pasa-cracks-down-on-debit-order-fraud-20180802
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https://www.debicheck.co.za/pages/yourQuestions.html

Q: Why can’t I use DebiCheck for ALL debit orders?
A: This is definitely a long term goal for the South African Reserve Bank and the Payment Association of South Africa. Unfortunately, due to the number of debit orders and entities involved in these processes, this will have to be done in a phased approach.

Q: How do I know that the company that is debiting my bank account is part of the new system?
A: Debit orders requiring electronic confirmation with your bank are called DebiCheck debit orders. You can enquire from the company that your debit order is with, whether or not they are part of the DebiCheck system. If you are not required to electronically confirm the debit order information with your bank, at the start of your contract, the company that you are dealing with is not using DebiCheck for this debit order.

Here you can see it is apparently going to take time to make it compulsary for all companies. The sooner the better.
In the meantime please report to [email protected] - more people that report, the better.
 
The "phased approach" argument is BS. Banks could right now, if they wanted to, require authorization from the account holder for all debit orders, whether from a participating company or not. Without the debiting company being opted in. And even when fully "phased in" will it stop fraudsters, or only provide protection against a registered company who has opted in? The FAQ pretty clearly states that fraudulent debit orders will still be possible:

"If you want to collect in the Early Processing Window, you will have to participate as a DebiCheck User. Alternatively, you may choose to do your collections in the normal EFT debit order run."

How many fraudulent companies do you think will register with debicheck? I'm betting on zero.
 
entity17 said:
The "phased approach" argument is BS. Banks could right now, if they wanted to, require authorization from the account holder for all debit orders, whether from a participating company or not. Without the debiting company being opted in. And even when fully "phased in" will it stop fraudsters, or only provide protection against a registered company who has opted in? The FAQ pretty clearly states that fraudulent debit orders will still be possible:

"If you want to collect in the Early Processing Window, you will have to participate as a DebiCheck User. Alternatively, you may choose to do your collections in the normal EFT debit order run."

How many fraudulent companies do you think will register with debicheck? I'm betting on zero.
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Fraudsters have the option of opting in, they don't have to, now tell me what self respecting fraudster would opt into a system that is going to make them lose money?
 
I also had this on Friday. With Standard Bank you have to phone into the call centre to reverse a debit order so after half an hour of calls to various numbers I got it reversed. You can't dispute it via the app or internet banking but you can load a stop order on future debit orders so I tried it. Copy and pasted the data and it told me it's not valid. Seriously Standard Bank is way behind in functionality I'm moving to Capitec.
 
krieg said:
I also had this on Friday. With Standard Bank you have to phone into the call centre to reverse a debit order so after half an hour of calls to various numbers I got it reversed. You can't dispute it via the app or internet banking but you can load a stop order on future debit orders so I tried it. Copy and pasted the data and it told me it's not valid. Seriously Standard Bank is way behind in functionality I'm moving to Capitec.
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0860123000, what various numbers were you calling?
 
0860 101 341
0860 123 108
0860 123 107

These are all numbers given from Standard Bank feedback to similar issues online. I came right with the top one, the number on the SMS is the bottom one.
 
entity17 said:
Correlation with having a Telkom d/o is all speculation and even if highly correlated doesn't mean that the leak came from Telkom. Fact is we don't know and speculation is pointless since we have no means of verifying.

The important thing here is it is way past time the banks started requiring customer authorization for all debit orders. We have all sorts of other protections in place for making sure transactions are authorized. We have completely over the top ridiculous RICA rules for getting a freaking cell phone or opening an investment account or changing your address on your bank account. Yet anyone can place a debit order against your account with no validation whatsoever and you can't even permanently block them.

Basically what we have here is the banks abdicating responsibility and telling us they are refusing to protect us against criminals even though it would be incredibly simple to do so.

Not only that, I discovered after reversing mine with Nedbank that apparently it will take up to 2 to 3 business days to get my money back.
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^^ this, yea Debicheck seems a damp squib. Even if does eventually help cut down d/o fraud, scammers will never sign up for it. I can’t understand how anyone could think Debicheck would stop d/o fraud, especially WASPs - they’ve been at it for years without being shut down.

Surely the banks have sufficient genuine customer d/o reversals on record by now to prove the repeat fraudsters cannot provide mandates.

PASA latest project update on d/o abuse Sep 18 :
http://www.pasa.org.za/docs/default...oap-bulletin---september-edition.pdf?sfvrsn=2
 
After reading this, I just spotted that NCONNUPS15_46556 has debited my account with R99 for 3 months in a row. No idea who this is
 
chrisc said:
After reading this, I just spotted that NCONNUPS15_46556 has debited my account with R99 for 3 months in a row. No idea who this is
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:sick: Are all 3 different refs? From what I've seen here, even when you get those 3 reversed by your bank you'll probably find the scammers just change the ref and debit you again next month.
 
entity17 said:
The "phased approach" argument is BS. Banks could right now, if they wanted to, require authorization from the account holder for all debit orders, whether from a participating company or not. Without the debiting company being opted in. And even when fully "phased in" will it stop fraudsters, or only provide protection against a registered company who has opted in? The FAQ pretty clearly states that fraudulent debit orders will still be possible:

"If you want to collect in the Early Processing Window, you will have to participate as a DebiCheck User. Alternatively, you may choose to do your collections in the normal EFT debit order run."

How many fraudulent companies do you think will register with debicheck? I'm betting on zero.
Click to expand...

I tend to have the same cynical view as you do on this issue.
My experience indicates that what will happen in reality is that the banks will be protected because they have an electronic confirmation from the client and they will not give a damn whether it was via fraudulent means e.g. malware.
That is the main issue at stake for the banks and logically you cannot blame them for going in this direction since there are just too many ill-informed clients out there. Heck even informed clients can be hacked. So this payment system, whilst it might reduce the fraud will only serve to give the banks more solid protection. That is how these things work in real life. Just read the small print on the use of their electronic banking methods.
 
D
krieg said:
0860 101 341
0860 123 108
0860 123 107

These are all numbers given from Standard Bank feedback to similar issues online. I came right with the top one, the number on the SMS is the bottom one.
Click to expand...
Don't bother with that bottom number. You'll be on hold for ever. Use the Fraud line immediately.
 
Daisy Cloudskitter said:
^^ this, yea Debicheck seems a damp squib. Even if does eventually help cut down d/o fraud, scammers will never sign up for it. I can’t understand how anyone could think Debicheck would stop d/o fraud, especially WASPs - they’ve been at it for years without being shut down.

Surely the banks have sufficient genuine customer d/o reversals on record by now to prove the repeat fraudsters cannot provide mandates.

PASA latest project update on d/o abuse Sep 18 :
http://www.pasa.org.za/docs/default...oap-bulletin---september-edition.pdf?sfvrsn=2
Click to expand...

Exactly this, the banks are deliberately sitting on the solution, I have not had the UPS-CONNUPS debit order as yet but I am sure it will still go through the day they decide to come for me, surely after so many reversals the banks should be aware that there is a problem with whatever company is responsible for that debit order? If a fraud flagged ID number is automatically picked up by the banks why not this?
 
Do any of you guys who say the banks are sitting on this have any idea of the volume of transactions that go through these systems?

A big bang change would be totally disruptive.

The banks take the risk in this situation. They'll refund you but there's no guarantee they'll get their money back from the crooks...
 
entity17 said:
The "phased approach" argument is BS. Banks could right now, if they wanted to, require authorization from the account holder for all debit orders, whether from a participating company or not. Without the debiting company being opted in. And even when fully "phased in" will it stop fraudsters, or only provide protection against a registered company who has opted in? The FAQ pretty clearly states that fraudulent debit orders will still be possible:

"If you want to collect in the Early Processing Window, you will have to participate as a DebiCheck User. Alternatively, you may choose to do your collections in the normal EFT debit order run."

How many fraudulent companies do you think will register with debicheck? I'm betting on zero.
Click to expand...

I feel the same as you but being in IT I know it is not easy changing a system. In the same breath I think more can be done that is why I am going to the PASA offices in Parktown Johannesburg to find out more and to maybe assist in investigation. Meantime everybody should sent complaints to [email protected], the more the better
 
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