Neotel explains NeoFlex pricing

Looks like I'm in the utter minority here, but here goes anyways:

Everyone expects Neotel to be the miracle baby... W.T.F.?
Lets look at what is happening:
Neotel has to work with what is available - thus the current SAT cable infrastructure - they also get their bandwidth at exorbitant prices (until Seacom is in effect) but even then they will only be able to filter through the savings IN DUE TIME!
They have promised *converged* services at reasonable prices and that's exactly what they are doing - given the current status of all the variable and available factors involved.
They only recently started to focus their complete attention to data-only services (aka NeoFlex) and as such only have the 2 data packages available at the moment.
BUT, they have various different converged packages for everyone to choose from in the current NeoConnect range - Lite and Prime

Lets have a look at the current situation:
Exhibit A (Telkom/Axxess) :
I will now state my current connections and rough costs.
*Telkom telephone line rental : R120
*Axxess internet line rental 4Mbps (of which I only get 2.1Mbps max!) : R360
*Axxess Basic 3GB shaped account: R180
**TOTAL : R660 per month (there is no device charge included as i bought my own router)

Exhibit B (Neotel) :
If we ignore the NeoConnect products as it includes the voice component that I never use, and also does not have wireless/ethernet connectivity for multiple users that I require we have the following:
*NeoFlex 10GB package @ 3.1Mbps (yet unknown s to what speed I will get) : R700
[This includes the R100 cost for the device p/m]
**TOTAL : R700 per month

Watla, onetime.
I'm fairly certain the speed will be comparable if not better than my current connection (and it will only improve from here).
Now tell me how this is NOT better?!? 10GB cap vs 3GB for basically the same price. and out of bundle prices are also 'reasonable' (not yet cheap though).
ALSO, this is an unshaped package. Besides the fact that this is a wireless-to-your-home service and as such, so you won't have bleeding edge 1 digit latency figures, you CANNOT say that the fact that it is unshaped means nothing!

If we compare Axxess' 3GB packages again :
Shaped = R180
Unshaped = R300
Everyone blabbers on about 'why the package is more expensive than NeoConnect'...
FFS people!! WIRELESS router + UNSHAPED for only 100 bucks more!!

Onto another so called 'complaint'...
"They don't yet offer an [uncapped package]"
All their packages are essentially 'uncapped', if you are willing to pay the 8c per MB out of bundle.
The fact that they do not yet offer an uncapped solution with this new NeoFlex package could have something to do with the following scenario:

*You have 1000 homes that take the NeoFlex uncapped package.
*Each home has 3 - 4 users that will connect on this uncapped line (speculative average)
*Suddenly you will have 3000 - 4000 concurrent connections each downloading an unlimited amount of data at the max line speed (3.1Mbps)... (and be honest, the people that wants this multiple connection, uncapped package are the people that will be downloading stuff 24/7, so don't talk *****)
**Thats a helluva lot of bandwidth requirements for a small amount of users! Now imagine even more users...

This is exactly the reason why all major advancements in life are GRADUALLY introduced into the system. You cannot simply dump a huge advancement onto the general population. It will be disastrous!
Yes, Neotel and all other operators have been laying fiber like mad...
Yes, they are preparing for very high bandwidth requirements...
but you cant just open the floodgates and hope for the best, until it breaks! Then you will have your loyal subscriber base in flames.
Same goes for this relatively small advancement in SA regarding the internet - but people don't think further than their own stupidity and now blatantly boycott NeoTel...??

ABSURD!

Neotel has recently updated their coverage map and it looks MUCH better.
Even if the online map shows you dont have coverage yet - call their customer support to check as they have the most up to date lists of coverage areas.
My area is now covered and as such, I have ordered my 10GB Neoflex package today and will support Neotel.
Even if their prices are not yet at the sweet spot.
Even if their line speed is a little bit slower than current fixed lines.
Even if unshaped does not give blazing fast latencies.
And I will DEFINATELY support them so we might be rid of the blight that is Telkom!
(Odd how many people would have done anything to be rid of Telkom, yet now we have a starting point of a solution and suddenly everyone is Telkom loyalists...)

/awaiting flame
 
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Leakysandwich said:
Looks like I'm in the utter minority here, but here goes anyways:

Everyone expects Neotel to be the miracle baby... W.T.F.?
Lets look at what is happening:
Neotel has to work with what is available - thus the current SAT cable infrastructure - they also get their bandwidth at exorbitant prices (until Seacom is in effect) but even then they will only be able to filter through the savings IN DUE TIME!
Click to expand...
I stopped reading your post there.

Neotel has direct access to SAT-3 through its parent company [VSNL/Tata], and will therefore be paying a lot less for SAT-3 bandwidth than you think.

To drive this point home, Neotel does not get its SAT-3 bandwidth from Telkodemonopolies, Neotel has its own equipment at Melkbosstrand where SAT-3 lands in SA.
 
Well look at it this way,
I read through 90 % of all the other people's opinions on this thread so i'm sorry you are incapable of reading a long post giving my reasoning...
Also remember - we are all on the same side here, i just see a light at the end of the tunnel.
 
Leakysandwich said:
Onto another so called 'complaint'...
"They don't yet offer an [uncapped package]"
All their packages are essentially 'uncapped', if you are willing to pay the 8c per MB out of bundle.
The fact that they do not yet offer an uncapped solution with this new NeoFlex package could have something to do with the following scenario:

*You have 1000 homes that take the NeoFlex uncapped package.
*Each home has 3 - 4 users that will connect on this uncapped line (speculative average)
*Suddenly you will have 3000 - 4000 concurrent connections each downloading an unlimited amount of data at the max line speed (3.1Mbps)... (and be honest, the people that wants this multiple connection, uncapped package are the people that will be downloading stuff 24/7, so don't talk *****)
**Thats a helluva lot of bandwidth requirements for a small amount of users! Now imagine even more users...
Click to expand...

I respect your input, and you do make some very good points, but you need to be careful how you judge the masses when it comes to uncapped.

Uncapped comes in two flavours:

  1. Supersize-my-fries 10day softcap
  2. True VPN off a major fibre connection uncapped

Number 1, being the cheaper of the two, is the one most users go for when they simply want to download, but the truth is, they actually are better off buying the 10GB package from openweb for R380 and some change. This is satellite bandwidth most of the time, and isn't ideal for business application.

Number 2, unlike the Number 2 I left in the WC, is the king of uncapped. True undersea cabled fibre all the way home with fixed IPs. This is what big business needs. Perfect for international VPN and VoIP trunking, perfect for hosting your own mail server in house and possibly even a small webserver. Perfect for allowing your field agents access to your intranet, and NEVER being restricted by speed limits.

I have a list of clients that rolls out the back door, all using IS's fibre uncapped solution. Not that we have anything against IS, but we do want more options... Neohell needs to stop playing with Dinky cars and start driving a Hummer3.

Bring out a data only bundle that gives me 5 fixed IPs and true uncapped, and I will have clients lining up till next tuesday!

And another thing. Loose the contract... I've already gone into this one, so we will leave it there...
 
ic said:
I stopped reading your post there.

Neotel has direct access to SAT-3 through its parent company [VSNL/Tata], and will therefore be paying a lot less for SAT-3 bandwidth than you think.

To drive this point home, Neotel does not get its SAT-3 bandwidth from Telkodemonopolies, Neotel has its own equipment at Melkbosstrand where SAT-3 lands in SA.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I need to interject right there... my sources at Neotel as well as at Telkrap inform me, that the Melktertbos connection is actually property of Telkom. They funded the landing of the cable there, so if anyone wants to play in their club house they have to follow their rules.

Hence Neotel got Seacom...

My sources at Telpoop also inform me that Telkom has only allowed a 25% usage of SAT3, as the 75% is being held back as a failsafe... HOLY CRAP!!! that means I could be downloading 3 times faster... NO! cost 70% of our international traffic now runs through satelite.
 
Leakysandwich said:
Well look at it this way,
I read through 90 % of all the other people's opinions on this thread so i'm sorry you are incapable of reading a long post giving my reasoning...
Also remember - we are all on the same side here, i just see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...

Your points are valid to a certain extend. However the root of the problem is this - companies can react or they can innovate. Neotel is reacting and not innovating. Example - Telkom gives a crappy deal with ADSL, no roll-over etc. etc. and companies like WebAfrica came in with innovative products.

Neotel don't need to give away brandwidth for free or below cost. They can be a game changer without that. They can innovate with their packages, and they can rewrite the rules.

Instead you have a company that doesn't communicate with their customers, rolling out a product that is similar to all other competitors products, in a package that is similar to their competitors, with marginal cost savings for certain scenarios.

If they were serious about getting customers, there was a host of things they could do to make their packages more attractive more flexible and better value for money. They could communicate more openly about their plans and problems. They could provide CHOICE instead of locked down packages. They could create value added services. They could peer at IPSA and give away local bandwidth to these ISPs. At the very least they can get bandwidth intensive LOCAL usage going.

A new network roll-out is just one of the coolest things ever. Why the hell don't they put photo's up, blog about it, run competitions around it and generally make this the most exciting thing ever?? What I know about Neotel is that coverage suck even though they dug up my pavement and for my usage patterns I cannot even begin to consider using them. Not even slightly.

They are not a company bringing change. They want to quietly squeeze in and take their piece of the pie.
 
Leakysandwich said:
Lets have a look at the current situation:
Exhibit A (Telkom/Axxess) :
I will now state my current connections and rough costs.
*Telkom telephone line rental : R120
*Axxess internet line rental 4Mbps (of which I only get 2.1Mbps max!) : R360
*Axxess Basic 3GB shaped account: R180
**TOTAL : R660 per month (there is no device charge included as i bought my own router)

Exhibit B (Neotel) :
If we ignore the NeoConnect products as it includes the voice component that I never use, and also does not have wireless/ethernet connectivity for multiple users that I require we have the following:
*NeoFlex 10GB package @ 3.1Mbps (yet unknown s to what speed I will get) : R700
[This includes the R100 cost for the device p/m]
**TOTAL : R700 per month
Watla, onetime.
I'm fairly certain the speed will be comparable if not better than my current connection (and it will only improve from here).
Click to expand...

You will get between 450kbps and 900kbps (stated by Neotel itself)...so basically half the speed of your current ADSL line. Not exactly "comparable if not better"...unless the definitions of those words changed since the last time I used a dictionary.

Now tell me how this is NOT better?!? 10GB cap vs 3GB for basically the same price. and out of bundle prices are also 'reasonable' (not yet cheap though).
ALSO, this is an unshaped package. Besides the fact that this is a wireless-to-your-home service and as such, so you won't have bleeding edge 1 digit latency figures, you CANNOT say that the fact that it is unshaped means nothing!
Click to expand...
It has been shown on this very forum that Neotel overcharges for data usage, so when you think you're getting 10GB, you'll find you won't actually get 10GB. Neotel has still failed to address this problem.

If we compare Axxess' 3GB packages again :
Shaped = R180
Unshaped = R300
Everyone blabbers on about 'why the package is more expensive than NeoConnect'...
FFS people!! WIRELESS router + UNSHAPED for only 100 bucks more!!

Onto another so called 'complaint'...
"They don't yet offer an [uncapped package]"
All their packages are essentially 'uncapped', if you are willing to pay the 8c per MB out of bundle.
Click to expand...

Are you on crack? How much traffic do you think a SME is going to get? Do the math on over a 100GB out of bundle and then tell me that it is affordable as an "essentially 'uncapped'" connection.

The fact that they do not yet offer an uncapped solution with this new NeoFlex package could have something to do with the following scenario:

*You have 1000 homes that take the NeoFlex uncapped package.
*Each home has 3 - 4 users that will connect on this uncapped line (speculative average)
*Suddenly you will have 3000 - 4000 concurrent connections each downloading an unlimited amount of data at the max line speed (3.1Mbps)... (and be honest, the people that wants this multiple connection, uncapped package are the people that will be downloading stuff 24/7, so don't talk *****)
**Thats a helluva lot of bandwidth requirements for a small amount of users! Now imagine even more users...
Click to expand...

WOW you must have a magic internet connection where EACH PERSON can download concurrently at the maximum line speed (3.1Mbps...uh...i mean 900kbps). Geez I mean that is like...3 or 4 x 3.1Mbps...12.4Mbps!!! Look out internet, here comes the Neotel customer base!!! Tell me, how do you activate this feature/sorcery? Does it require some sort of dance or do you merely need to shout "abra-kadabra" and wriggle your fingers in the general direction of the router/modem/summoning-circle?


This is exactly the reason why all major advancements in life are GRADUALLY introduced into the system. You cannot simply dump a huge advancement onto the general population. It will be disastrous!
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!!! Imagine how disastrous it would be to just have affordable internet instantly! We need to stamp out these crazy notions of "fair pricing" and "free market economies"!!

I would continue, but honestly the rest isn't even worth the time.
 
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porchrat said:
You will get between 450kbps and 900kbps (stated by Neotel itself)...so basically half the speed of your current ADSL line. Not exactly "comparable if not better"...unless the definitions of those words changed since the last time I used a dictionary.
Click to expand...

Yes, and it has been stated on various occasions that they have been very conservative about their specified average speeds you'll actually get, and that you would in fact get substantially more than that.

porchrat said:
Are you on crack? How much traffic do you think a SME is going to get? Do the math on over a 100GB out of bundle and then tell me that it is affordable as an "essentially 'uncapped'" connection.
Click to expand...

I was not referring to SME's for this specific statement, but you are right. 'Uncapped' at 8c per MB (or roughly R80 per GB) is definitely not affordable for anyone.

porchrat said:
WOW you must have a magic internet connection where EACH PERSON can download concurrently at the maximum line speed (3.1Mbps...uh...i mean 900kbps). Geez I mean that is like...3 or 4 x 3.1Mbps...12.4Mbps!!! Look out internet, here comes the Neotel customer base!!! Tell me, how do you activate this feature/sorcery? Does it require some sort of dance or do you merely need to shout "abra-kadabra" and wriggle your fingers in the general direction of the router/modem/summoning-circle?
Click to expand...

And as usual you would have someone take a valid statement, misunderstand it (either intentionally or unintentionally) and try to discredit it where it was meant as a very basic example to try to explain a simple point).
You fail.
 
LeakySandwich : Actually porchrat was point out a rather LARGE flaw in your example.

Do the maths if you please. 1000 homes, all have Neoflex.

3 - 4 people are connecting to this service at each home.
Throughput on the Neoflex is rated at an average of 900kbps.. although I'd guess that its probably closer to 500kbps, but we'll work on 900kbps. Thats 1000 (notice I'm using the number of NEOTEL devices installed, rather than the number of Neotel Devices x the number of users per device) x 900kbps. This works out to 900000kbps, which is 900mbps (ROUGHLY).

Now this is assuming a contention ratio of 1:1 which NO telecoms operator/ISP uses for consumer grade products, they usually use figures of between 20:1 and 50:1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio). This then at best situation brings the figure down to 45mbps per 1000 users. This is not a really huge amount of bandwidth for a first tier provider, especially considering that Neotel have stated they have a 10Gbps network.
 
Leakysandwich said:
Onto another so called 'complaint'...
"They don't yet offer an [uncapped package]"
All their packages are essentially 'uncapped', if you are willing to pay the 8c per MB out of bundle.
The fact that they do not yet offer an uncapped solution with this new
Click to expand...

Wow... I haven't seen logic like that since Telkom introduced its uncapped local... aka buy as much as you want. Please do some research and find out that uncapped is a fixed price unlimited bandwidth service, and NOT a unlimited price unlimited bandwidth service.

Leakysandwich said:
Neotel has recently updated their coverage map and it looks MUCH better.
Even if the online map shows you dont have coverage yet - call their customer support to check as they have the most up to date lists of coverage areas.
My area is now covered and as such, I have ordered my 10GB Neoflex package today and will support Neotel.
Click to expand...

Yeah.... I had coverage last week when I ordered their services. Now I don't have coverage anymore. Not on the online coverage map or on their coverage map. Just shows you that they are taking massive chances and claiming to cover areas they don't cover. When the truth comes out they disconnect you and update their coverage map to exclude you.
 
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ToxicBunny said:
LeakySandwich : Actually porchrat was point out a rather LARGE flaw in your example.

Do the maths if you please. 1000 homes, all have Neoflex.

3 - 4 people are connecting to this service at each home.
Throughput on the Neoflex is rated at an average of 900kbps.. although I'd guess that its probably closer to 500kbps, but we'll work on 900kbps. Thats 1000 (notice I'm using the number of NEOTEL devices installed, rather than the number of Neotel Devices x the number of users per device) x 900kbps. This works out to 900000kbps, which is 900mbps (ROUGHLY).

Now this is assuming a contention ratio of 1:1 which NO telecoms operator/ISP uses for consumer grade products, they usually use figures of between 20:1 and 50:1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contention_ratio). This then at best situation brings the figure down to 45mbps per 1000 users. This is not a really huge amount of bandwidth for a first tier provider, especially considering that Neotel have stated they have a 10Gbps network.
Click to expand...

Very well put.

Birdie told me that 50:1 is Telkom's ratio for home users.

Also keep in mind wireless is dependant upon weather conditions, solar flares, and other forms of interference.

I got excited with the announcement of their Neoflex product, but after perusing it carefully, listening to what others say, I am inclined to agree that Neotel does not offer value for money yet.

A lot of us would like to go with Neotel, but we do not want a contract, we want prepaid, as it is easier to budget for prepaid than for contract.

Regards

Libs
 
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sorry Leakysandwich, even though some of ur points are valid i don't agree with many of them.

first of all, i agree asking for affordable uncapped services at this time is unrealistic but that is not the main problem, i think, when it comes to neoflex.

Their biggest problem is -120 minutes of telkom calls, -1000 minutes of neotel calls and then +R100 per month????? doesn't seem to make sense, and i don't care if they use revA, until they can get neoflex to speeds above 2.4mbps they can save that story and tell it to their kids.

Then their is the 24 month contract, they need to loose the contract, telkom is offering free modem to self install customers, now neotel needs to look into this and do something similar, i don't care how much more expensive their CDMA devices are, if they can't make a plan then y must we listen? to us consumers, internet is internet, whether its thru an ADSL line or wirelessly via CDMA, we don't really care about that.

So neotel, if any of your guys are reading these posts, 1. get neoflex prices in line (should be cheaper then neo prime) 2. loose those contracts.
 
Wyzak said:
Wow... I haven't seen logic like that since Telkom introduced its uncapped local... aka buy as much as you want. Please do some research and find out that uncapped is a fixed price unlimited bandwidth service, and NOT a unlimited price unlimited bandwidth service.
Click to expand...

Priceless
 
Yes they are cheaper in some sense. But why. The prices are just too high for normal consumers. With adsl offerings you get local only access which works well with the news servers. Neotel gives no added benefits!

I THOUGHT UNLIMITED LOCAL IS LAW NOW. WHERE IS NEOTEL'S LOCAL?
 
Kawak said:
Their biggest problem is -120 minutes of telkom calls, -1000 minutes of neotel calls and then +R100 per month????? doesn't seem to make sense, and i don't care if they use revA, until they can get neoflex to speeds above 2.4mbps they can save that story and tell it to their kids.
Click to expand...

NeoFlex does not offer calling...
 
schurtek said:
I missed this memo? When did that happen? Gazette number please?
Click to expand...

A while back. That's why telkom don't cap you on local. Unlimited local doesn't have to be free but you have to have unlimited local. Mweb,Telkom,Cybersmart is ISP's I used and they comply. Mweb is just the better cause they give unlimited local bandwidth free :)

Neotel? Where is your local?
 
Unfortunately that is on ADSL.... this product from Neotel is not ADSL so therefore they nicely sidestep that little development.
 
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