New hate speech bill opened for public comment

[ToxicBunny]

I do agree though that certain terms like 'belief' and 'ridicule' do need further clarification before this bill is ready to be implemented.

No, this bill needs to be scrapped in its entirety and never reconsidered.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Nonsense

Not nonsense my friend, the wording in the Bill is pretty much all encompassing.

 

[porchrat]

Would I commit a crime under the new law if I say "People who believe in witchcraft are backwards"

By the looks of it, yes probably.

 

[C4Cat]

Not nonsense my friend, the wording in the Bill is pretty much all encompassing.

I'm not your friend, and no, the wording in the Bill is actually pretty specific.

 

[Fulcrum29]

No, this bill needs to be scrapped in its entirety and never reconsidered.

This act will create a whole new generation of bullies, worse than those patent trolls.

 

[ToxicBunny]

I'm not your friend, and no, the wording in the Bill is actually pretty specific.

No its not.

 

[McSack]

I'm not your friend, and no, the wording in the Bill is actually pretty specific.

A quote from Benjamin Franklin comes to mind here :"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

 

[McSack]

This act will create a whole new generation of bullies, worse than those patent trolls.

Can just imagine the SJW crew hauling half the planet to court from the [-]sanctuary[/-] asylum of their safe spaces

 

[Zoomzoom]

A quote from Benjamin Franklin comes to mind here :"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

+1 but no-one cares to listen to this POV

 

[daveza]

Taxi drivers are going to be lining up to claim they are victims of hate speech.

In this Act, unless the context indicates otherwise -
―communication‖ includes, without any limitation, any –
(a) gesture;

Does this include the middle finger or the two finger salute ?

 

[CorrieDeBeer]

This is clearly an attempt by the government to curb the freedom of speech that keeps threatening to usurp it. It is the one thing our government fears most a free press that makes public all its corruption.

This will off course only be retroactively used to prosecute all enemies of the state in the name of "Hate Speech". Don't think for one moment the vagueness of the law is not done for a reason.

 

[KarooKlonkie]

I do wonder how this will affect stand-up comedians. Their routines would be pretty dull and sanitised without them being able to make quips about people based on religion, race, etc. which most of them rely on quite heavily.

 

[TriGuN]

The thing reads as typically white liberal, which is some tasty irony coming from SA.

 

[BBSA]

By the looks of it, yes probably.

So no room for free speech, no chance in hell this bill is constitutional.

 

[Fulcrum29]

So no room for free speech, no chance in hell this bill is constitutional.

To quote the preamble,

SINCE the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, commits the Republic of South Africa and its peoples to establish a society that is based on democratic values of social justice, human dignity, equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms, non-racialism and non-sexism;

AND MINDFUL THAT—

• section 9(1) of the Constitution provides that everyone is equal before the law and has the right to equal protection and benefit of the law;
• section 9(3) and (4) of the Constitution provides that neither the state nor any person may, directly or indirectly, discriminate unfairly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth, and that national legislation must be enacted to prevent or prohibit unfair discrimination; and
• section 10 of the Constitution provides that everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected;
• the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, 2000, prohibits unfair discrimination, hate speech and harassment and requires the State to promote the constitutional imperatives enshrined in section 9 of the Constitution; and

section 16 of the Constitution gives everybody the right to freedom of expression, including -

• freedom of the press and other media;
• freedom to receive or impart information or ideas;
• freedom of artistic creativity; and
• academic freedom and freedom of scientific research,

but which does not extend to –

• propaganda for war;
• incitement of imminent violence; or
• advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm;

AND BEARING IN MIND THAT—

• section 7(2) of the Constitution provides that the state must respect, protect, promote and fulfil all the rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights, which is the cornerstone of democracy in South Africa;
• section 8(2) of the Constitution provides that a provision of the Bill of Rights binds a natural or a juristic person if, and to the extent that, it is applicable, taking into account the nature of the right and the nature of any duty imposed by the right;
• the severity of the emotional and psychological impact of hate crimes and hate speech extends beyond the victim, to the group to which the victim belongs or is perceived to belong; and
• South Africa has committed itself to uphold the Declaration adopted at the United Nations World Conference against Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance held in Durban;

AND SINCE the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, to which the Republic is a signatory, requires States Parties to declare, among others, an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, incitement to racial discrimination, as well as acts of violence or incitement to such acts against any race or group of persons of another colour or ethnic origin,

 

[biometrics]

Does this include the middle finger or the two finger salute ?

 

[BBSA]

AND SINCE the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, to which the Republic is a signatory, requires States Parties to declare, among others, an offence punishable by law all dissemination of ideas based on racial superiority or hatred, incitement to racial discrimination, as well as acts of violence or incitement to such acts against any race or group of persons of another colour or ethnic origin,

So why do we have racial discrimination laws in South Africa?

 

[TrelliPaste]

What a can of worms...literally anything said about anyone can be said to be 'hate speech', but the reality is that it will all be filtered by political correctness and abused by supremacists in an attempt to gag criticism of their ideologies.

 

[Swa]

I'm in favour of this in principle but I haven't studied the bill so it depends on the implementation.

Yet if it's implemented correctly the same people that called for it will call for its repeal. I've made it abundantly clear how stupid I think it is for people to be prosecuted for what they say, that includes the other laws as well as this new one. Let's face it, the ANC led government has failed on a primary level and has not just not done anything to combat racism but has exacerbated it through policies and comment. They're using this as a pretense to try and make it look like we just have a few bad apples. Either you agree with free speech or you don't. You can't be on its side while supporting legislation against it but free speech has become all the more just a buzzword in SA.

No it can't. Not unless those words / actions are directed at someone purely because of their race, sex, gender, religion, etc. I agree there will be cases which the courts will have to determine if the speech is hate speech or not, but it's not some broad brush that covers all speech.

If you disagree, now is the time to let them know and point out the parts of the bill that concern you. That's what opening the bill to public comment is about.

I remember when the guy was walking around UCT with a t-shirt saying 'kill all whites' - many of you were up in arms saying he should be arrested. Now a bill is introduced that specifically covers that sort of hate speech and people are saying it's unnecessary!

And if it was a white guy with a t-shirt saying 'kill all blacks' he would have been arrested. The existing law has never been applied consistently. That's what people are up in arms over. More legislation will not change that fact.

Reading through some comments here - I can't help but think... If I was a rapist and I was told that the sentences for rapists would be stiffer, I would have a problem with it.

Compare rape to hurting someone's feelings. Not sure if serious :erm:

Fortunately, our courts are colour blind. How can this law be a bad thing?

Except they haven't been.

Jon Qwelane was found guilty of hate speech in 2011.
Velaphi Khumalo has been taken to court for alleged hate speech.

And out of how many is this? Also I don't just want examples of hate speech but specifically black on white hate speech as that's the benchmark here. And then I want examples where the fine was R150k. Seeing as there have been so many truly hateful comments and calling for genocide from blacks it would have been appropriate if they picked a black person to make an example of and not a white person merely commenting on the uncivilised behaviour of a certain race group.

There are currently no laws specifically about hate speech. Now there will be.
It makes any challenge in higher courts, about prohibiting such speech as being unconstitutional much more difficult.

Stop talking crap. Hate speech is already covered by existing legislation. They simply want to make it a criminal offense so nobody is given any new protection apart from the new categories of "hate" speech. Then the existing legislation already has room for hate crimes but it's just never been applied.

I do agree though that certain terms like 'belief' and 'ridicule' do need further clarification before this bill is ready to be implemented.

Backtracking much now it's been explained to you? This abomination is worse than the crackdown on media freedom bill and has to be scrapped.

 

[wizardofid]

Ohhhh boy, dis gun be gewd!

I'm also expecting a metric crapton of charges filed by whites against any BEE vacancies.

Fair discrimination is still applicable Pretty sure the court has a firm grasp of BEE discrimination.