NHI paper released for public comment

UnUnOctium said:
It'll probably come from higher taxation on the big corporates (which is a step in the right direction). Would be particularly ideal if they start pulling it from the medical aid companies obscenely coining it (to all impending flamers and nay-sayers, Discovery upped their profit from 2009 to 2010 by 36% to R 2.5 billion, never mind the other R11 billion they earn from investment of their previous profits & assets).

Let's just hope Gordhan isn't trolling us.
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By and large discovery is the medical aid industry, last time I checked they covered over 60% of all people on medical aids. So this company pays it's entire profit(2.5B) to government and we are still 122.5 billion short.

Wake up folks, this equates to R2000+ per current tax payer per month.

No way we can do this, especially now that the economy is shedding jobs like zimbabwe sheds people.

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hungrybeaver said:
Where is the paper then?

News24 says NHI will cost R125bn in 2012. That is an enormous amount of money!



No clue where this money will be coming from :confused:
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Or where it will be going to....

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in average, everyone has to pay R2500 for next year (R125bil / 50 mil people) = R2500 / ppl => R208 a month, not that bad.

BUT if we consider only 10% of our population paying tax, then that will be R2083 a month for every taxpayer in average.
 
BUT if we consider only 10% of our population paying tax, then that will be R2083 a month for every taxpayer in average.
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Add to that what we are paying to bail out Eskom, a grand or two to use the toll road, your normal income tax.......
 
Shayd said:
By and large discovery is the medical aid industry, last time I checked they covered over 60% of all people on medical aids. So this company pays it's entire profit(2.5B) to government and we are still 122.5 billion short.

Wake up folks, this equates to R2000+ per current tax payer per month.

No way we can do this, especially now that the economy is shedding jobs like zimbabwe sheds people.

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There's a reason why they're aiming to implement it over 14 years of course.

Should also remember that if it will be higher corporate taxation, it won't be just from 5 companies, it will be across the spectrum. Of course, we won't know the exact plan until they release it for public comment.

@daveza. Judging by the site, insurancejunction.co.za seems to be to the insurance industry as the new age is to the ANC :p
 
UnUnOctium said:
It'll probably come from higher taxation on the big corporates (which is a step in the right direction). Would be particularly ideal if they start pulling it from the medical aid companies obscenely coining it (to all impending flamers and nay-sayers, Discovery upped their profit from 2009 to 2010 by 36% to R 2.5 billion, never mind the other R11 billion they earn from investment of their previous profits & assets).

Let's just hope Gordhan isn't trolling us.
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Firstly, the medical aid industry is in no way big enough to subsidise this. Secondly, why should they? Because you believe they make too much money? It's exactly this mentality that Julius uses to convince people that nationalisation is the way forward...
 
UnUnOctium said:
There's a reason why they're aiming to implement it over 14 years of course.

Should also remember that if it will be higher corporate taxation, it won't be just from 5 companies, it will be across the spectrum. Of course, we won't know the exact plan until they release it for public comment.

@daveza. Judging by the site, insurancejunction.co.za seems to be to the insurance industry as the new age is to the ANC :p
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So while we find ourselves in a position of inflationary pressure, economic downturn, weak economic forecasts for the long-term and a GDP recovering from negative growth, and where boosting the private sector is really our only chance of averting an economic crisis in this country, you suggest we place further bottom-line squeezes on recession-hit companies in order to finance a scheme cooked up against the suggestions of every single economist involved in its initial research? Right...
 
No matter how the spindoctors weave this, the taxpayer will be out of pocket. Tax business and business will pass this on in the form of deductions, pay cuts, downsizing, hike the price of their product(s).

This is no more than a Robin Hood scheme to tax those who have to provide to those who have not. I do not have a problem with that in theory but we have far too many have nots and far to few haves.

I'd say a VAT hike would be closest to 'fair' as one could get.

I just hope that with this NHI we will see an improvement in government health services (I am not going to hold my breath though).
 
This is crap. I pay my taxes like a good citizen, but the public heath system is a mess. So, I pay some more to a medical aid so that if I get ill, I can use a private facility. Now, I have to pay *more* for this NHI!! Come on, my medical aid serves me well as it is, why do I need NHI?!
 
Jase said:
No matter how the spindoctors weave this, the taxpayer will be out of pocket. Tax business and business will pass this on in the form of deductions, pay cuts, downsizing, hike the price of their product(s).

This is no more than a Robin Hood scheme to tax those who have to provide to those who have not. I do not have a problem with that in theory but we have far too many have nots and far to few haves.

I'd say a VAT hike would be closest to 'fair' as one could get.

I just hope that with this NHI we will see an improvement in government health services (I am not going to hold my breath though).
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Those of you stating that a VAT hike would be fair:

I agree that of all the brainfarts, that is the one looking to spread the cost as evenly as possible, but this will just be another inflationary problem to deal with. This is not the time to be introducing macro-economic changes for social purposes...
 
DJ... said:
Those of you stating that a VAT hike would be fair:

I agree that of all the brainfarts, that is the one looking to spread the cost as evenly as possible, but this will just be another inflationary problem to deal with. This is not the time to be introducing macro-economic changes for social purposes...
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The arguement against fair taxation is that it is fair. This was something that Cronin was going on about re the toll fees. The commies view a usage tax as injust because they argue that the rich should pay more. VAT isn't an unfair tax at all - it applies in the rate equally to all and if you consider it, those with more money are more likely to buy more, hence contribute more in terms of tax.

Taking things further - we have some taxes taht are just not doing anything other than dump money into government coffers and having a surplus there means more money in the grubby mitts of the trough gatherers. Think of the plastic bag tax.
 
shakes1 said:
This is crap. I pay my taxes like a good citizen, but the public heath system is a mess. So, I pay some more to a medical aid so that if I get ill, I can use a private facility. Now, I have to pay *more* for this NHI!! Come on, my medical aid serves me well as it is, why do I need NHI?!
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Mistake nr 1.. its not for you.. it's for the non-paying tax dude... and the sad part.. I can guarentee you, you won't be able to give up your medical aid because you'll still have to go to goverment hospital.....

I have a friend who visits cancer patients in goverment hospitals. Let me tell you, the stories she tells you will make go insane. And not just now and again ... it's everyday. Let's just put it this way.. you are lucky if you get out alive...
 
Motsoaledi unveils 'radical' NHI plan

Health Minster Aaron Motsoaledi said on Thursday that the National Heath Insurance (NHI) would be funded in part by extra contributions by employers and people who earned above a certain threshold.

While private healthcare would still be an option, individuals would have to fund this separately, as the NHI contributions would be nonnegotiable.

Public healthcare has to be "radically" overhauled in order for the NHI to be effective, Motsoaledi said.

Speaking in Pretoria about the release of the green paper on the NHI, Motsoaledi described the NHI as "universal healthcare coverage" which would allow all South Africans access to decent health services, regardless of their financial situation.

The policy paper on the NHI was presented to Cabinet on Wednesday and will be released for public comment on Friday. South Africans will have three months to comment on the document. It will then be made into draft legislation which will also be made available for public comment before being submitted to Parliament.

Motsoaledi called the first steps towards establishing the NHI "historic". He explained that the NHI would be implemented over 14 years, with the first five years being used as a process of "building and preparation" for universal healthcare.

The health minister called the improvement of service in South Africa's hospitals "nonnegotiable".

"Whether we like it or not, the bulk of South Africa's healthcare infrastructure resides in the public sector and our task is to overhaul it so people will choose to go to public facilities".

He admitted that a great many people "continue to die prematurely" and unnecessarily from poor government health services.

But the minister suggested that the NHI would allow the majority of the country's citizens access to good healthcare.


South African citizens would be allowed to continue using private healthcare schemes but will not be exempt from paying towards the NHI. Earners above a certain income bracket would be legally obliged to contribute to the NHI fund.

The health minister and Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan could not say at what income threshold the tax would kick in, explaining that the finer details of funding still had to be worked out.

Gordhan did say, however that the NHI would be funded by tax, mandatory contributions from employers and earners in higher income brackets. He also said users of the system may have to pay and public private partnerships would be investigated.


Cosmetic procedures such as voluntary plastic surgery and "botox" would not be covered by the NHI, explained Motsoaledi.

Both ministers admitted that more value needed to be seen for the money already spent on healthcare. Motsoaledi said that South Africa "already spends 8.5% of its GDP on healthcare, far above international averages".

He said we were not seeing value for our money and something was wrong with the high expenditure and poor health outcomes. Gordhan agreed saying South Africa needed better outcomes for the money spent on health and education. He suggested "tough questions needed to be asked" in this regard.

The health minister could not say whether government medical aid schemes would be phased out when the NHI is fully implemented in 14 years time.

The NHI does not mean there will be a war between private healthcare and the public sector, said Motsoaledi. But he added that the high cost of private healthcare had to be addressed.

The department of health is conducting an audit of public health facilities in the country. After the audit is complete, 10 sites will be chosen for the pilot stage of the National Health Insurance Scheme, which will begin in 2012.

Although taxpayers will be paying extra for the NHI when the programme is formally rolled out in its entirety, the pilot project that starts next year will be paid for by a "conditional grant" that will be allocated in the 2012 budget.

The minister said the first five years of the NHI would be the most difficult to implement as it was during this time that the quality of government healthcare and infrastructure had to be improved, and the amount of medical equipment in hospitals increased.

An NHI fund also had to be established, a human resource plan would have to be put in place and information systems would also have to be developed.
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F*** you , Motsoaledi. You want to see a brain drain, check how fast your high skill professionals bail now.
 
If they stop stealing all the government funds there wouldn't be an issue to pay for this
 
We are paying for it. From what I understand we are paying 5% of our salary and basically getting full medical aid (but for things like botox (sorry bwana), you are going to have to co-pay).

This is either ganna make the medical schemes cheaper, or I will simply use the NHI.
 
DJ... said:
So while we find ourselves in a position of inflationary pressure, economic downturn, weak economic forecasts for the long-term and a GDP recovering from negative growth, and where boosting the private sector is really our only chance of averting an economic crisis in this country, you suggest we place further bottom-line squeezes on recession-hit companies in order to finance a scheme cooked up against the suggestions of every single economist involved in its initial research? Right...
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It worked in the U.S *cough*
 
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