Fraud and corruption costs SA about 20% of GDP, which equates to around R55bn- we'd have to completely eradicate corruption and government fraud for 3 years just to pay for the first year of NHI. That just shows you how absurd the costs involved in this scheme truly are...
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NHI paper released for public comment
- Thread starter Gushesh
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Fraud and corruption costs SA about 20% of GDP, which equates to around R55bn- we'd have to completely eradicate corruption and government fraud for 3 years just to pay for the first year of NHI. That just shows you how absurd the costs involved in this scheme truly are...
Scooby_Doo
Honorary Master
Do you really believe you are going to get the same level of health care out of this as a private medical aid?
How do you mean? and how will this make medical schemes cheaper? Less people will be able to afford it so the costs will go up.
Erm, if you think so. From my perspective its cheaper. My medical aid costs more than 5% of my salary. With this system Ill pay 5% and still see my normal doctors, if medical aids bring their pricing down to something reasonable, Ill move back to them.
In the end it results in less choice and higher costs for tax payers. Not only because now taxpayers have to pay for others, but the increase in demand from the NHI will raise the costs of private healthcare, so much so that you'll be forced to pay for NHI as well as your private healthcare expenses will go up drastically.
This creates and even greater imbalance between the costs and quality of healthcare received by the rich and the poor.
The only people that benefit are the "parasites", those who consume more than they earn. And government bureaocrats who are now gonna get jobs to administer the whole thing. It will also result in less choice for those who go from private to NHI healthcare.
I don't know how as a country they can argue we already spend too much on healthcare for little benefit and now they want us to spend more.
This creates and even greater imbalance between the costs and quality of healthcare received by the rich and the poor.
The only people that benefit are the "parasites", those who consume more than they earn. And government bureaocrats who are now gonna get jobs to administer the whole thing. It will also result in less choice for those who go from private to NHI healthcare.
I don't know how as a country they can argue we already spend too much on healthcare for little benefit and now they want us to spend more.
There's a reason why they're aiming to implement it over 14 years of course.
Should also remember that if it will be higher corporate taxation, it won't be just from 5 companies, it will be across the spectrum. Of course, we won't know the exact plan until they release it for public comment.
@daveza. Judging by the site, insurancejunction.co.za seems to be to the insurance industry as the new age is to the ANC
Higher corporate taxes just means individuals get less money.
Bloody hell!!! didn't look at the figures that way. How is one supposed to stay positive with nonsense like this. Everyday it's some new way of bleeding the tax payers dry...
Maybe it IS time for everyone to pack up and leave.......
Actually no you won't see your normal doctors. Unless you are currently going to the government hospitals and waiting in line with the rest of the people. The original bit of info that was posted here in the forums regarding the NHI was that you HAD to go to the gov hospitals, either the emergency room or make an appointment weeks/months ahead of time for simple GP visit. No more visiting private docs as far as I understood it.
Too tired to go hunting for previous threads now.
I need to see that to believe that.
The doctors I spoke to about this seemed to have a different perspective, but the information may be out dated. If you got new news in I would love to see it please.
Saw it somewhere in one of the threads (was a political one) not sure if it was title with NHI.... walking dead atm so not going to go look for it now.... My understanding may even be mistaken but that's what I remember (even vaguely...)
Ive tried googling for it, i cant seem to find it. Cant even find a copy of the draft yet
It will never be cheaper as long as you're subsidising a large portion of the population. And moving back to your medical aid will not make you exempt from this tax - you'll still have to pay them both...
Yeah, I read that now. :/
Oh well, its 5% for a good cause. Hopefully the DA will have more power in 5 years time to provide more oversight. : Imagine if this works... and we get a healthier, happier work force
Yeah, I read that now. :/
Oh well, its 5% for a good cause. Hopefully the DA will have more power in 5 years time to provide more oversight. : Imagine if this works... and we get a healthier, happier work force
*smile* now that's seeing the bright side
Can't afford to pay both private and NHI if they are going to increase the tax though..... various reasons.....
Thats how I understood it.
R13...
Honorary Master
The state will probably appoint competent people to run this. At least for the first while.
Sorry I was using the wrong figures there. The actual fraud and corruption figure is estimated at R400bn so yes we could actually just cover it if we eradicated 100% of corruption and fraud from South Africa. Still an absurd amount at play here. Effectively these politicians want to find an additional 7% of GDP just to fund this in the first year alone and 12% thereafter. In other words, there's either 12% of GDP wiped out each and every year or we the tax payers need to fork this out. Let me do the sums here for you: ARS collects around R550bn per annum from tax. Therefore between businesses and individuals, we will have to be subject to an across the board tax hike of 40% in order to finance this each and every year, working on the R225bn figure they anticipate this to cost.
Where the fsck does one just magically create an additional 40% tax collection? How on earth do they even contemplate something like this. Guaranteed, cash will be redirected from other areas to make up any shortfall but eventually, just like any Ponzi scheme (which is what that would amount to) it will come crashing down. This is probably the single biggest risk to our country and in thinking about this, we really should be taking a major stand against it...
Yeah, I read that now. :/
Oh well, its 5% for a good cause. Hopefully the DA will have more power in 5 years time to provide more oversight. : Imagine if this works... and we get a healthier, happier work force
Official unemployement is about 26%, unofficial in excess of 30% atleast, possibly more.
All you are doing is taking away their reasons to work and actually produce, which is where real prosperity comes from.
Remember if a guy is getting R1000 a month now, as unemployement for example, if he is offered a job that pays R2000, then what we are saying is that he has to work 160 hours for R1000 (Thats the marginal benefit). Now essentially, he gets his unemployement benefits, as well as healthcare paid for him, so now that R1000 marginal benefit of working is even less.
This means there is less incentive to get a job and produce for those who are unemployed and less incentive to produce (Why work hard, if the harder you work the more the state takes away from you, the marginal benefits of getting salary increases means less and less).
The solution to our problems is not to incentivise people not to work, no matter how you dress it.
daveza
Honorary Master
Good luck to them.
So the doctor/surgeon/dentist is asked for an appointment by two patients - one with private medical aid, one on NHI.
Who is going to get the earliest appointment ?
Below is a list of articles from an organisation called Health Policy Unit dealing specifically with the economics of healthcare.
http://www.healthpolicyunit.org/scr...derId=313&folderName=Economics of health care
Economics of health care Critical Issues
Technology growth and expenditure growth in health care
If Americans think health care is expensive…
Avoiding health care chaos
Singapore a lesson in waiting
Canada’s low-tech health care in a high tech world
The WHO’s sick manifesto
Bring on the medical tourism
Health care reform – corporate style
Long waits for health care are costing Canadians billions
Same spending, different access
Use of health savings accounts up 35 per cent in U.S.
Canada clings to outdated health model
Canadian and US healthcare comparisons
Britain’s sick note culture
Competition solves health care
Trade is good for your health, especially if you are poor
Canada’s unstable health care system
Who’s fooling who – the WHO’s problematic ranking of health care systems
What the hospital pricing furore and electricity blackouts have in common
More private healthcare in Canada urged
Paying patients test British healthcare system
NHS not ready for immigration
Canadian-style ‘healthcare’
UK among Europe’s worst for cancer funding
Health-care failings make Britain the poor relation within Europe
Canada does not have one-tier or uniform delivery of health care
UK falls further down European health league
NHS is headed for the worst of all worlds
Costly ‘affordable’ health care
A right to health care?
Memo to Michael Moore: UK no role model
Canada’s increased health care spending not helping
Looking to Milton Friedman’s wisdom on health care
UK health care is not free at the point of delivery
Free health care is a fatal notion
Medicine can be consumer centric
Outsourcing health care
How good is Canadian health care?
Exploring women’s health and double duty
Most Americans significantly underestimate health care costs
Medical tourism
http://www.healthpolicyunit.org/scr...derId=313&folderName=Economics of health care
Economics of health care Critical Issues
Technology growth and expenditure growth in health care
If Americans think health care is expensive…
Avoiding health care chaos
Singapore a lesson in waiting
Canada’s low-tech health care in a high tech world
The WHO’s sick manifesto
Bring on the medical tourism
Health care reform – corporate style
Long waits for health care are costing Canadians billions
Same spending, different access
Use of health savings accounts up 35 per cent in U.S.
Canada clings to outdated health model
Canadian and US healthcare comparisons
Britain’s sick note culture
Competition solves health care
Trade is good for your health, especially if you are poor
Canada’s unstable health care system
Who’s fooling who – the WHO’s problematic ranking of health care systems
What the hospital pricing furore and electricity blackouts have in common
More private healthcare in Canada urged
Paying patients test British healthcare system
NHS not ready for immigration
Canadian-style ‘healthcare’
UK among Europe’s worst for cancer funding
Health-care failings make Britain the poor relation within Europe
Canada does not have one-tier or uniform delivery of health care
UK falls further down European health league
NHS is headed for the worst of all worlds
Costly ‘affordable’ health care
A right to health care?
Memo to Michael Moore: UK no role model
Canada’s increased health care spending not helping
Looking to Milton Friedman’s wisdom on health care
UK health care is not free at the point of delivery
Free health care is a fatal notion
Medicine can be consumer centric
Outsourcing health care
How good is Canadian health care?
Exploring women’s health and double duty
Most Americans significantly underestimate health care costs
Medical tourism