NHI paper released for public comment

ghoti said:
Yeah, I read that now. :/

Oh well, its 5% for a good cause. Hopefully the DA will have more power in 5 years time to provide more oversight. : Imagine if this works... and we get a healthier, happier work force :D
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Please check the financial figures at play here before saying that this is all for a good cause. This is tantamount to financial suicide for our country. We cannot magically create a 40% increase tax collections. We cannot wipe off 12% of GDP. So really, how on earth do they propose this is paid for? Are they planning on hiking corporate taxes absurdly? In which case watch GDP and FDI (foreign direct investment) fall, as will our country. Are they expecting individuals to pay? That's simply not possible? Are they expecting a 40% increase in efficiency in tax collection? Impossible because there's hardly 5% headroom in existing tax collection.

So somebody needs to explain how in any way this country can afford it, global economic crisis or not...
 
daveza said:
Good luck to them.

So the doctor/surgeon/dentist is asked for an appointment by two patients - one with private medical aid, one on NHI.

Who is going to get the earliest appointment ?
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Government are also notorious for being the worst payers, so doctors can expect to see their cash flows taking a massive knock. While it might create jobs, it's not going to create sustainable, quality jobs and will still result in an outflow of human capital, as well as financial capital...
 
question, the R125B needed for 2012, does it include or exclude the existing health budget? If it includes, what is the difference between the 2?
 
And another thing, 50 companies in South Africa account for 25% of our tax collections in this country. You cannot start taxing these companies even more, simply for the luxury of operating here, especially now when countries are looking to invest in places like South Africa and where we need a competitive edge to secure that investment. It is not a luxury to run a company in South Africa however this seems to be the mentality of our government, while they go around claiming that job creation is oh so important to them. Their actions do not tie up with their statements...
 
Apparently to secure our growth targets of around 3-6%, we need FDI to be something like 25% of SA's GDP. This year alone it has fallen 70%, with the financial markets in turmoil, and the increased risk profile of emerging economies, as well as our lack of economics stability in SA (Nationalisation), we are not looking like a good investment for foreigners.

It cannot be done.
 
AAAAAAaaaannnnnndddddd another thing. This government has revised its tax collections for 2011/2012 to R742bn. Firstly, I'd like to know how they've managed to milk an extra 40% from us in two years and secondly, where has it gone? I don't really dig too deeply into the government expenditure reports but these figures seem rather squiffy (yes, that's the technical term.).

So there really should be enough fat in the budget to account for the NHI without additional tax burdens to the individual, nor to corporates. But once again, this doesn't seem to be the angle the government are gunning for. Instead, it looks like we will be forced to cough up for it in its entirety...
 
air said:
question, the R125B needed for 2012, does it include or exclude the existing health budget? If it includes, what is the difference between the 2?
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The scheme is being introduced in phases so some of the budget will be used for regular health. And the funding model is still being decided.
 
WilD_CaT said:
Apparently to secure our growth targets of around 3-6%, we need FDI to be something like 25% of SA's GDP. This year alone it has fallen 70%, with the financial markets in turmoil, and the increased risk profile of emerging economies, as well as our lack of economics stability in SA (Nationalisation), we are not looking like a good investment for foreigners.

It cannot be done.
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While the risk profiles of emerging markets might be changing, we are becoming even more attractive investment destinations for major capital. Yet every single thing this country says and does shows that apparently this is not important to them which frustrates me to the nth degree. We really and truly could be sitting pretty right now if it weren't for a few morons in public positions...

daveza said:
So whichever angle you look at it from it's a non starter ?
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That's irrelevant to this government. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt and defend them at times (to the angst of many on this forum) but I've become well and truly pessimistic about this current lot of ANC ninckampoops. Talk about increasing taxes exorbitantly so that 10% of our population can fund a national health scheme is just the tipping point for me now. What do these pathetic imbeciles believe the rest of the world think of us as an investment destination when this sort of nonsense is being flouted about? Yes, there might be limited investment into pharma and medical industries, but they account for a fraction of our economy. You don't have to be financially minded to see this - you just have to use your mind...
 
R13... said:
And the funding model is still being decided.
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They can scratch their melons till erosion takes place, it won't change the fact that money simply doesn't grow on trees. It also doesn't change the fact that no matter how they propose funding this, it remains unsustainable. A simple look at the figures shows this. A deeper look, which is what economists have already done, proves this. There should be no debate yet just like the nationalisation argument, we're going to have it, because, well, we can and we will. Even if their heads are in the right place and the suggestion is truly altruistic, there remain major financial implications which appear to being treated like a Ponzi scheme...
 
DJ... said:
While the risk profiles of emerging markets might be changing, we are becoming even more attractive investment destinations for major capital. Yet every single thing this country says and does shows that apparently this is not important to them which frustrates me to the nth degree. We really and truly could be sitting pretty right now if it weren't for a few morons in public positions...
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Totally agree. We could be making a name for ourselves as being the gatekeepers for Africa, stable environment, pro-business etc. and we are just wasting our potential.
 
DJ... said:
So somebody needs to explain how in any way this country can afford it, global economic crisis or not...
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Don't come here with your greedy white capitalist tendencies :mad:
 
According to 702 the actual green paper will be available tomorrow.
702 will be analysing the green paper in detail tomorrow.
 
Speaking at the same briefing, Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan spelled out how the government proposes to fund the NHI, which is to be implemented in stages over the next 14 years.

The money required would come from four sources.

"One is through the fiscus, that's the tax that everybody contributes; secondly, through mandatory contributions from individuals, [and] from employers.
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Someone please tell me the difference between a mandatory contribution and tax !
 
DJ... said:
Those of you stating that a VAT hike would be fair:

I agree that of all the brainfarts, that is the one looking to spread the cost as evenly as possible, but this will just be another inflationary problem to deal with. This is not the time to be introducing macro-economic changes for social purposes...
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Vat increases do not persistantly boost inflation, they are a once off which works it's way through the system very quickly.
 
Jamal said:
As I understand it you will go to your normal doctor as usual but instead of you paying the doctor, the doctor will claim payment from the state. The state will play the role of medical aid in deciding the types of treatments that doctors may provide.
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There is also usually a nuisance charge to dissaud people from frivolous visits.
The state has a questionable history of administering large funds, e.g. the land bank and the road accident fund.
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True.
The private healthcare sector is actually more productive than the state healthcare sector.
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Not necessarily true outside SA.

A recent study indicates that while the US (a largely private healthcare system) pays the at least 25% more for healthcare per person than any other OBDC* country it does not boast the best outcomes. Countries with national health schemes boast significantly better benefit/cost ratios.

I do not think that the NHI can be implemented without negatively impacting the quality of health care. I think people who are not on medical aids will initially be better off while those who are on medical aids will be worse off. In the long run I think South Africa will lose many doctors and everybody will be worse off.
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South Africa is already losing many doctors mostly for reasons unrelated to NH.

*

Of course South Africa is not an OBDC country, it's an African country, it's highly unlikely anything government related will work efficently (SARS aside)
 
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