Not buying an e-tag?

[LazyLion]

I did for the simple fact I can't afford to pay the standard rate as if I didn't have an e-tag. I travel R100 km per day on the highway, without an e-tag my bill would be astronomical.

If I was single without children, and lived 5km from work, then yes I would happily boycot however thats not at all practical when you have to consider other factors like family and the real cost.

So let's look at two scenarios....

1) You end up paying several hundred rand a month, until the system fails.

2) I end up paying nothing at all, until the system fails.

Good move on the savings there, Bro.

 

[Sinbad]

So let's look at two scenarios....

1) You end up paying several hundred rand a month, until the system fails.

2) I end up paying nothing at all, until the system fails.

Good move on the savings there, Bro.

Also, there's absolutely no guarantee that Scamral won't raise the cap and prices by amounts way in excess of inflation in the next few years...

 

[warwickw]

Without an etag you wouldn't have to pay anything when the system collapses. You're just enabling the theft.

If only you could 100% guarantee that. I can not take the risk.

 

[warwickw]

So let's look at two scenarios....

1) You end up paying several hundred rand a month, until the system fails.

2) I end up paying nothing at all, until the system fails.

Good move on the savings there, Bro.

And when the system doesn't fail, you end up in jail and having to pay the full un-subsidised rate plus fines.

 

[hawker]

I'm not getting an etag. If I use the highway and they send me a bill, I'm going to ask them for proof that I drove through each gantry.

Imagine if a few thousand people did this to them everyday they'd just crumble under the amount of admin.

 

[Kloofvreter]

Everyone seems extremely confident that this system will fail. I, for one, will be very surprised if it fails.

 

[LazyLion]

If only you could 100% guarantee that. I can not take the risk.

I can 100% guarantee it.
It is a physical impossibility, a matter of the laws of physics.
There is no way on earth that they can process that number of Invoices in real time per day.
And even if they theoretically could, half the addresses and details on the e-natis system are out of date or invalid.
Just sit back and wait for it to collapse.

 

[OMB]

If only you could 100% guarantee that. I can not take the risk.

and that's what the rest of the sheeple will say and any mass boycott is then doomed for failure

And when the system doesn't fail, you end up in jail and having to pay the full un-subsidised rate plus fines.

this can't happen as yet, there are still too many challenges facing SCAMRAL, I want to see them enforce this

 

[hawker]

I can 100% guarantee it.
It is a physical impossibility, a matter of the laws of physics.
There is no way on earth that they can process that number of Invoices in real time per day.
And even if they theoretically could, half the addresses and details on the e-natis system are out of date or invalid.
Just sit back and wait for it to collapse.

Or Postal system is also pretty unreliable and inefficient so there is that too.

 

[OMB]

Everyone seems extremely confident that this system will fail. I, for one, will be very surprised if it fails.

it's actually irrelevant whether their system fails or not, mass disobedience will ensure the failure of e-tolling in general

 

[Cool E]

I can 100% guarantee it.
It is a physical impossibility, a matter of the laws of physics.
There is no way on earth that they can process that number of Invoices in real time per day.
And even if they theoretically could, half the addresses and details on the e-natis system are out of date or invalid.
Just sit back and wait for it to collapse.

They will send monthly invoices

 

[Sinbad]

it's actually irrelevant whether their system fails or not, mass disobedience will ensure the failure of e-tolling in general

I still think there's a constitutional challenge waiting on this whole thing.
The constitution requires efficient, transparent government. eTolling is neither of these.

 

[OMB]

I still think there's a constitutional challenge waiting on this whole thing.
The constitution requires efficient, transparent government. eTolling is neither of these.

yep, as I said, still a bunch of obstacles in SCAMRAL's way, not as clear cut as their spin doctor makes it

 

[LazyLion]

Or Postal system is also pretty unreliable and inefficient so there is that too.

There are multiple issues with the system.
SANRAL knows it, but there is too much croney money tied up in the system and too much pressure from the top.
So they are trying to force it through in the mad hope that something magical will click and it will somehow work.
You can't fight physics though.

There are hundreds of thousands of vehicles every single day.
On day two they get a new batch of invoices to process, but meanwhile the system has thrown out 150,000 invoices from day one that need to be checked and processed for compliance (assuming a 50% non-compliance rate... which is conservative).
By the end of day two they are no nearer to finding the names and addresses of all of those from day one who were not compliant, but they now have over 300,000 invoices that have been thrown out. Multiply that by 5 days? At the end of the first week they will have nearly a million invoices that have no destination.

 

[AlphaBravo]

What about the SANRAL private police, if they stop you and check you don't have an etag you are gonna receive some personal attention that you can do without, being made an example of so to speak. Make 1000 examples people will get scared and buy etags. Will OUTA bail me out?

 

[LazyLion]

What about the SANRAL private police, if they stop you and check you don't have an etag you are gonna receive some personal attention that you can do without, being made an example of so to speak. Make 1000 examples people will get scared and buy etags. Will OUTA bail me out?

Aaah, so now we come to the real reason. You're poep scared of some fake cops.

You can sign up with the Justice Project South Africa if you are worried about unlawful arrest.
http://www.jp-sa.org/

But to put it briefly... The e-tolling is not being governed by the Criminal Procedure Act. They can only use civil action against you.
And in order to prove civil action they will need some kind of proof of monies owed.
And as I said above, those wheels are going to be turning very slowly.
It takes on average one year from notification of debt to a judgement against the debtor.
SANRAL is going to be fighting a massive uphill battle to drag several hundred thousand people into court for amounts of R50 to R100 per month.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Poepscared indeed, I can't afford to sit in 'holding' for any time period. Since when was SA scared of unlawfull arrest, they will keep you occupied for hours without arresting you as such. Harressment more like it, and they prob want mind you suing them either. We are being strongarmed indeed, I just don't see any ammicable solution.

 

[LazyLion]

Poepscared indeed, I can't afford to sit in 'holding' for any time period. Since when was SA scared of unlawfull arrest, they will keep you occupied for hours without arresting you as such. Harressment more like it, and they prob want mind you suing them either. We are being strongarmed indeed, I just don't see any ammicable solution.

No doubt, there will be a few "casualties" in the war, but once SANRAL is the target of a few well placed civil claims for unlawful detention they will soon have to fall into place. Then their demise is just a matter of time.

 

[Kloofvreter]

No doubt, there will be a few "casualties" in the war, but once SANRAL is the target of a few well placed civil claims for unlawful detention they will soon have to fall into place. Then their demise is just a matter of time.

You seem very confident. I sincerely hope you are right.

 

[LazyLion]

You seem very confident. I sincerely hope you are right.

Are you on Twitter?

You should go and add the Justice Project to your feed....
@JPSAorg

There is a lot of info there about the entire system and its shortcomings.