Now we know why Maths and Science are such difficult subjects ..

[boramk]

2004
1953

51 years of hardship shaped the future of people claiming a country for 700 years.
Education prior too this? Say in 1911?
Say 1860?

Its common knowledge blacks who could afford education got it. Look at Mandela and Fort Hare

 

[Mila]

Revolution before education.

Verwoerd had to smile for people too fall for his plan so completely?

 

[boramk]

Those who wanted to,did. Certainly at the time you would have found their numbers a lot less because of the transition. To my memory, interracial schooling started in '91, or in more concrete terms when I was in Std 4 in my personal memory. From that time on there were multi-racial pupils in the exact same Model B\Model C school at the time. By the time we atained Matric together, they went on to achieve their lives just as much as I did, entering tertiary education etc. I won't disagree that they were heavily disadvantaged but I cannot compare the class of then to a Grade 10 class of this year.

Think of it this way, because of your bad background, poverty, malnutrition (helps a lot in brain development btw), the chances that your dad deserted you (high amongst blacks), lack of English as a first language, you are going to have a shaky start even smack first in Grade 1. You cannot honestly believe now that those in Gr10 of '96 who as you said, were heavily disadvantaged already, are successful now and passing their success to their kids (if they even have kids, its only been 14 years since '96). Why do you accept that 2 generations of uneducated backwardness can harm people but assume that 17 years, not even a generation, is going to be and should be better off?

 

[Mila]

In 1982 there were more black people in schools than whites.
Less money was spent on them. But it's just an interesting stat.

 

[Kosmik]

Think of it this way, because of your bad background, poverty, malnutrition (helps a lot in brain development btw), the chances that your dad deserted you (high amongst blacks), lack of English as a first language, you are going to have a shaky start even smack first in Grade 1. You cannot honestly believe now that those in Gr10 of '96 who as you said, were heavily disadvantaged already, are successful now and passing their success to their kids (if they even have kids, its only been 14 years since '96). Why do you accept that 2 generations of uneducated backwardness can harm people but assume that 17 years, not even a generation, is going to be and should be better off?

Because I work with them every day. People who are my age, of different race groups, who are competent in their fields involving mathematics and science. The fact is that those people were heavily disadvantaged, more than any modern generation because of the transition and still those who worked hard, succeeded. Also note that their children will only have started entering the schooling system in the last few years, hell I'm not even a father yet and the oldest child amongst the people my age that I know of is probably round six or seven.

 

[boramk]

In 1982 there were more black people in schools than whites.
Less money was spent on them. But it's just an interesting stat.

Mila, that doesn't solve the problem of background though... Background and opportunities are important. Having 500 black children Going to Thato High School with no electricity, shoes or books or going to be worse ff than 500 white children going to Crawford.

 

[boramk]

Because I work with them every day. People who are my age, of different race groups, who are competent in their fields involving mathematics and science. The fact is that those people were heavily disadvantaged, more than any modern generation because of the transition and still those who worked hard, succeeded. Also note that their children will only have started entering the schooling system in the last few years, hell I'm not even a father yet and the oldest child amongst the people my age that I know of is probably round six or seven.

Again, your assumption now is that all black children from bad backgrounds can achieve a good life. In theory yes, in practise no. Those colleges of yours are a lucky few. You seem to have a very idealistic view of the world, unfortunately, its not that prefect, if it was, there wouldn't be any problems in the world now would it?

You should read SuperFreakanomics, there are actually very interesting chapters based on opportunity and background of whites and blacks, showcasing how much of an impact this has on their lives and the economy, and also amusingly, how the names of people correlate with their economic status .

 

[MegasXLR]

We ALL know that Verwoerd didn't create maths or science so stop bringing that on to the table. He is clearly going on about the legacy of Bantu education: Verwoerd wanted to make achieving difficult for blacks by putting them in a social class of low skilled workers.

That is just what they were at the time, nothing more nothing less, Now what was to be done with the million fold problem, Unfortunately Verwoerd made the wrong but seemingly the only solution at the time to control the masses. Looking at the crime and problems today maybe he had a point. Only time will tell. Your stuck record as highlighted is starting to feel flimsy. It was the MEC that made the comment using the exact words as we can see. Obviously his Bantu Education are failing him. Not even the ANC spokesman came up with an advisory yet as promised to color in the context, but mr. boramk knows it all, he knows what the MEC meant ? Shame. But we all know that nowhere is it clear that he was going on about the legacy of Bantu education. Only in the mind of boramk and even if it is so it's is a weak excuse to use to justify the failure of the current education system as designed and implemented by the ANC. 17 years after they too office. Thank and blame KADAR ASMAL for the latest failures of the students today. Not ancient history FFS.

 

[Kosmik]

Again, your assumption now is that all black children from bad backgrounds can achieve a good life. In theory yes, in practise no. Those colleges of yours are a lucky few. You seem to have a very idealistic view of the world, unfortunately, its not that prefect, if it was, there wouldn't be any problems in the world now would it?

I won't argue with that because maybe it is a perception but my basic argument is that they, over 13 years ago could achieve it, then why can the children of today not. And that answer can only be because they they have been failed by the people who were supposed to help uplift them.

 

[boramk]

I won't argue with that because maybe it is a perception but my basic argument is that they, over 13 years ago could achieve it, then why can the children of today not. And that answer can only be because they they have been failed by the people who were supposed to help uplift them.

They can, much like your colleagues, there are blacks who have luckily uprooted themselves from their poverty through hard work, but much like the classmates of your colleagues, there will be plenty who won't be able to.
And look, I'm sure you work for a company that has to have smart workers, that's most likely your colleagues are there in the first place, and where your opinion stems from.. Look beyond your colleagues, maybe they had a set of full supporting parents, not a lot of black people can say they have that, and its a tragedy.

 

[MegasXLR]

No Kosmik, it was implemented less than 60 years ago, and was abolished much, much later, there is a difference, so there is no ample time that you speak of.. The most important point being 2 generations of uneducated masses cannot provide as adequately to their children in the way educated parents can. You are under the assumption now that people in Grade 10 who had terrible education for the past 10 years is now all of a sudden given the same advantage as a person who had 10 years of good education? If not, then no, those matriculants from 96, 97 are still badly off.

I'm losing my patients now, I have already said the current education is bad and that it is the governments fault. But instead of pointless bashing, I try to find the root of the problem, that being there was bad education for decades in the first place that has led to us having leaders with no proper educational background.

I thought you know all that already, so you are trying to find the root of the problem and therefore your patience are shattered. No wonder we have problems with our education system and educators. If they do not even yet know what the problem really is. So you at last agree that the problem is partly that :

1) We have an uneducated leadership. mbeki? Mandella? Zuma, Sexwale? (but we rather blame Verwoerd.)
2) People that have the knowledge and qualifications are either sidelined or chased away ( Brain drain)
3) That students cannot cope in the current education system, even after standards were lowered to increase pass-rates and very few are allowed the be failed by the schools. (Blame Kader Asmal)
4) That the MEC said and stated its a perception or state of mind that maths and science are difficult as a subject
5) That the MEC stated Verwoerd made the science and maths difficult out of fear, so that the blacks cannot compete. (Theres no other way to understand those words)
6) That the poverty dumbed down the current generation of students. ( Except when they go to ST Johns then they can afford and as such then they must be buying some extra braincells?)
7) That the ANC government is not to blame as they cannot afford better education for the masses (They spend the money on lavish parties and cars) Funny that the same argument are not valid for the old NATS with even a smaller tax base and bigger problem then.

Really?

 

[MegasXLR]

Wait, am I confused here, are you saying a black person in Grade 10 in 1996 is just as well of as going to a normal school his whole life?



I'm already well aware of Mbeki's education, his one of the few with good ones ATTAINED OVERSEAS. I could do the same and link Zuma's education attainment

Lets do one better, get us Malemas attainment! We know all about the woodwork.

 

[boramk]

Megas, I can only assume you are trying to talk to me. I've already told you you are on my blocked list

 

[TheHiveMind]

Think of it this way, because of your bad background, poverty, malnutrition (helps a lot in brain development btw), the chances that your dad deserted you (high amongst blacks), lack of English as a first language, you are going to have a shaky start even smack first in Grade 1. You cannot honestly believe now that those in Gr10 of '96 who as you said, were heavily disadvantaged already, are successful now and passing their success to their kids (if they even have kids, its only been 14 years since '96). Why do you accept that 2 generations of uneducated backwardness can harm people but assume that 17 years, not even a generation, is going to be and should be better off?

It was much more than two generations. They never had education worth mentioning for as long as they existed.

 

[MegasXLR]

Megas, I can only assume you are trying to talk to me. I've already told you you are on my blocked list

Who cares? I can still read all the crap you spew. I do not reply on your posts here for you to see, I care less about what you think. I post here so others can see your mentality and stuck record attitude.

 

[wordsik]

When did Verwoed die? 1966
Now if the Minister knew any maths whatsoever, he would see that 45 years have gone by, so blaming that guy is just illogical. Which brings me to my next point. Africans don't do logic well, and logic is fundamental for Maths.

Dude I am African
stop generalizing
it’s illogical for you to say all Africans are not so good at logic
however I will agree with everyone in the thread what this guy said is utter rubbish.
worse is the guy/gal Journalist that bothered to quote this hogwash uttered by this dude …clearly someone was kissing someone’s ass

in the same breath Do not generalize …not kosher bro

 

[wordsik]

Lets do one better, get us Malemas attainment! We know all about the woodwork.

Lmao eish He had to be good at something don't you think?
and well making noise and being in the right Party worked for him
Dude utelised what he had and Woodwork was not part of it

 

[medicnick83]

Taxi drivers are the only ones who suck at logic! Actually, they suck at pretty much everything in life.

 

[Bona Botse]

During what time period were you educated & what version of education did you recieve?





*note - marked are a few typo's noticed at a glance. I did not even look at grammer.

the irony is strong with this post.

 

[slayerza]

Although I agree (to a certain extent) that we are feeling the effects of decisions made in the past it seems to be an all to easy excuse. If we (as a country) are to make any inroads into fixing the problems all parties should stop bringing up the past. Sure some people received a better education than others. This is still the case with public and private schools. I have seen students that have a work ethic second to none. Sure it's tough, sure it's difficult financially BUT I've never heard them complain or use the past as an excuse!

On a side note: The level of reporting in the cited article is shocking. Even the math is broken 69% - 53% != 9.6%