O2 DOWN: UK mobile network crash

[Geoff.D]

Then we agree on that respect, which is what I was trying to dell Dave.

The details of the O2 failure are not clear, but if their network time got messed up, it would have exactly the same effect that Ockie describes in his thread: Vodacom NTP server failed in 2016: https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/vodacom-network-time.837769/

Yes it can and does. Simply because it causes sw conflicts within the device. The EPHEREMIS stored data is time dependent and if the time on the device is wrong or unstable the device cannot complete its setup process.
Network time is absolutely crucial these days as it has always been.
For those that still use DStv services are painfully aware of all the decoder hassles that arise because MC fails on a regular basis to ensure ALL their systems and equipment is synchronised to the same clock.

 

[Geoff.D]

Actually you’ve proven my point with your link

You cannot pluck that sentence out of the reference and use it out of the context within the paragraph where it is. That only happens IFF the Almanac and other data is reasonably accurate and fairly fresh.

 

[Geoff.D]

I’ve been lucky virtually every weekday for the last 10 years?

Ok....





How about a link to show that GPS categorically won’t work without a data connection???

Because a GPS ( even one in a phone) categorically cannot work without the ephemeris data, timing and the almanack, it will fall back to its own "data connection" which is received off the satellite signal at 50b/s So your statement is just wrong. What you have to say is that a standalone GPS and a GPS chip in a phone does not require an Internet-based data connection to function. Even that is not always accurate as GPS chips in phones do NOT all have the fallback options activated.

 

[Geoff.D]

I know that dumbo.

Here are the two posts that started the conversation.









Yes, you did, you claimed 5-10 minutes for first lock without data connection. And then you went further and claimed without data it’s useless.



FFS

Stop speaking crap. The average is is around 30 seconds, your own links say so, how does a 30 second to first fix make it useless?

You need to freshen up on your comprehension and read what people write IN CONTEXT of what they are discussing.

 

[Geoff.D]

1

Are you whiteknighting for @Hamish McPanji now, if he doesn’t like his pet name he’s a big boy and will tell me.



Jesus, but you’re tedious, in the real world, even in the world before a-GPS even existed GPS units were getting locks in multiple seconds, if it’s taking 10 minutes there’s a fault somewhere (that would even be true of the very first TomTom stand-alone GPS receiver).

You prattle on like a hyperactive kid on a complete tangent.

GPS does not need a data connection to work, fact.

How do you think GPS works in the middle of the Sahara desert or an ocean?

If you want to refute that as fact, do so without just copying and pasting half a Wiki page and refute it in your own words with a link to back it up.

Some of us have been using Garmin GPS RECEIVERS, since first Garmin I, II, III. I STILL use my Garmin III plus, because when all else fails, and the modern one has lost all power, THAT one WILL still be able to power up, take 10 minutes and at least give me my location coordinates on a basic map with no bells and whistles.

 

[Geoff.D]

If I’m the stupid arrogant one it should take you long to prove my stupid statement wrong, should it?

Here it is again, please prove it wrong.

IF you only had taken the trouble to READ the reference and if you then could comprehend what you read, you would see that even the reference makes a clear distinction between the built-in data connection running at 50b/s AND and INTERNET data connection for A-GPS to function.

 

[Geoff.D]

Oh god, back to Wikipedia goes the Wiki master.

Please explain how anything you said refuted my statement....



You were the master paster who decided to bring A-GPS into a GPS comment, it really has nothing to do with the statement I made.

It’s a simple fact, and no amount of obfuscation from some old guy with a phone from 2012 will change a simple fact.




I’ll tell you what, R100 to any charity (or you, if you need it) when you disprove the following statement;




Should I repeat that for you?

Pay up! YOU have been proven WRONG on so many fronts by now you owe us all R100, simply because you cannot read statements made within the context that they are made.

 

[buka001]

This thread is a classic study in strawman arguments and miscomprehension.

People reading what they want and ignoring the actual statements made in the context of the post.

 

[Geoff.D]

True, that is much more accurate, I bow to your superior terminology .

Of course it’s only technically, as the topic was centred on the lack of an active data connection from the network causing google maps not to work.

No, YOU brought in another very valid point, that Google maps only works IF you either have a local copy of the maps downloaded onto your smart device, or, an active and working INTERNET data connection.

 

[Geoff.D]

That still doesn't need data. GPS tracking uses the same tech as standalone gps devices. A-GPS uses data to assist the GPS.

No, a return path is required, because basic GPS is a RECEIVE ONLY device and service.

 

[Geoff.D]

This thread may be of interest to you guys.


https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/thr...heck-that-your-clock-is-set-correctly.838033/

Still happening. But now maybe it the load shedding nonsense that s triggering these issues? Noticed it yesterday when I switched from ADSL to VC Almost a minute difference in the time settings.

 

[Gordon_R]

This thread is a classic study in strawman arguments and miscomprehension.

People reading what they want and ignoring the actual statements made in the context of the post.

Part of the problem is that 'GPS' is not a single system, but a family of different satellites, ground stations and master clocks, receiver types, add-on software, and supplementary mapping services. If you do not define your exact terminology, and specify which component of the service is being discussed, the argument will be ambiguous and irrelevant.

For the record there are actually multiple competing GPS systems, GPS (US), Glonass (Russia), Galileo (EU), Beido (China), and different versions of the original GPS system.

Some receivers (Samsung S8 and iPhone 8) can access multiple systems, and the most recent ones have significantly better hardware. The ability to process multiple satellite signals simultaneously leads to faster lock-ons, though the process is still limited if it has to go through ephemeris acquisition.

 

[Dave]

Looks like @Geoff.D and @Gordon_R are about as obtuse as each other. Twins separated at birth? Both survived serious oxygen deprivation during the process?



@Lupus I’ve given up trying to debate with them, I found it easier to get sense from a brick wall

You’d think that anyone with even half a brain cell would understand that when the thread is about the breakdown of the o2 data system that any reference to data connection would be referring to that topic (except in the minds of the brainless, I suppose....)

 

[Geoff.D]

You do realise that GPS has been around a long, long time right? There have been standalone gps units before there were cellphones with maps on it. You can get a basic gps tracking unit for R200 that has no data on it. How do you think car trackers worked?
You do not need data for GPS. Cellphones technically don't need it either. But it helps for speeding up triangulation and of course more real time updates, a standalone gps takes longer to lock on but once it's locked on it can track you within a few metres of your location. You can even get more accurate speed results from a gps unit.
Did you like sleep through the mid to early 2000s when GPS became available to the public? Or do you somehow think this tech only became available with smartphones?
I was using a gps unit to navigate around the UK in 2008, all I needed was the map pack from the supplier.
We probably now use the cellular network for transmitting back as it's there now and it'll be more real-time. But before hand?

BUT NONE of what you say is what GPS TRACKING means! I was using a GPS unit in the 90's long before many in SA were even able to buy them!

The fact that YOU could locate yourself on a map downloaded onto a device does NOT mean anyone else knew where you were. For that, you needed a return path so that your coordinates could be transmitted back to the tracking service provider or company so that THEY also knew where you were. And that requires a data connection, which only became possible with the advent of basic GSM services for all, and now, with an Internet connection. Before that, you would have had to use a radio connection and in extreme cases, an HF radio link.

 

[Geoff.D]

That's not what you've been saying. You've been going on about how you need data for GPS which as standalone you don't.
For real-time updates, tracking and such yes but for stock standard GPS you don't need it. Even Google maps can be run without data.

That is exactly the problem. You and Dave suffer from a malady called selective reading. And NO, google maps ONLY works without a Internet data connection IF you have downloaded an of line set of maps for the area in which you are travelling.