ZCFOutkast
Expert Member
If it was Steyn who was injured - even after a poor start - do you think there'd even be a question of him replacing Abbott despite doing ok while he was out?
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Official ICC 2015 CWC thread
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Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
Dale Steyn is ranked no. 3 bowler in the world. Philander is ranked 33rd - and with good reason.
If it were tests, I'd agree, Philander is probably the first name you'd put down in fact. But be realistic here about his ODI performances - they're not that hot.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
To be fair, Steyn has had time to get to that ranking. Philander has only recently been a permanent fixture in the ODI side...
I'd rate Philander to do more early damage than Abbott. The thing though, not that Abbott is any good either, is Philander can't bowl at the death. He has to be bowled out early IMO. that limits our options at the death...
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
If it's a toss up between Abbott and Vern, I'd give it to Vern. He can hold a bat, and that could well make a difference...
Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
His highest score in his last 8 innings is 4. None of them have been not outs. So I don't feel the same.
Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
He's had more than a year. I remember him shooting up to 2nd in the test rankings after like 3 tests or something. So he's had more than enough time.
18 ODI's since November 2013.
But I'd rather drop Behardien/Parnell - whoever the coin lands on for any given day - and have both Abbott and Philander, if we could have that without the ANC's interference.
Agent_Smith
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Anyone else find it weird that in the two games being played today, both tosses were won by the associates and both opted to bowl first?! Given what we've seen in this tournament so far, both decisions to field first are questionable at best.
Do you think it's a case of the associates being aware of the very real possibility of being shot out cheaply by superior bowling attacks followed by superior batting attacks chasing down what would be a very modest total and thus shortening their exposure in this tournament?
Do you think it's a case of the associates being aware of the very real possibility of being shot out cheaply by superior bowling attacks followed by superior batting attacks chasing down what would be a very modest total and thus shortening their exposure in this tournament?
Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
It's better for their nett run rate to let the opposition get say 400 at most (8.0 runs per over) and getting bowled out for 100(2.00 runs per over) - which is a nrr loss of 6.00 for the game, than bat first, get out for 100, and the opponents get that within 8 overs(12.5 runs per over) with 9 wickets down, coz they can attack the smaller total, and the small team loses 10.5 NRR for the specific game.
That's how I see it anyway. Maybe they have other reasons.
phoneJunky
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By that logic Abbott shouldn't be playing. He has had 13 games so far and isn't even ranked in the top 100...
Parnell is 44th in comparison, Vern 33, Phangiso 78 and Duminy 80 all above him.
Edit: McLaren is really the unlucky one in this situation @29
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Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
But if he plays another 5, to get to Philander's 18, he might well be there, but we won't know now.
Agreed on McLaren. 29th in bowler rankings, and he can bat a bit.
sand_man
Honorary Master
On current form I would pick them both and leave out Morkel. Not a bad batsman to have coming in at 8? Philander!!
Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
With a best score of 4 in his last 8 innings? I agree with him replacing Morkel actually, but not because he bats better. Maybe he's more suited to slow batting, because he has a decent average in tests. But in ODI's he sucks.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Have you looked at the situations at which he's come in? His performances in tests show that he has ability with the bat, and that is the point. Not his last 8 innings (why 8 anyway?). McLaren, a known allrounder, hasn't exactly set the world alight in his last 8 innings either, but we know that he has the ability...
sand_man
Honorary Master
He got a 57 off 128 balls in that warm up match against NZ! He can bat, don't be fooled!!
phoneJunky
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Don't hold your breath on Abbott, his List A record is worse than Parnell and he is older than Parnell. Atleast Parnell can make the next WC, where I doubt Abbott will (he might still). The only area Abbott is good is first class, so he might be a test option.
He got 50% more wickets in just the last game against associates, which aren't prepared to this kind of pace, doubt he will do better against the test playing nations. Even if he gets two more games in the next 5 like last, he won't be where Philander is now.
Abbott came at the expense of McLaren, not Parnell, but McLarens name should have been there before both of them. Although McLaren and Parnell's stats look very similar, McLaren was in better form. Who knows how the India game would have turned out if Abbott was playing instead of Parnell? Maybe he would have done better, maybe not. But from the games I remember seeing them play in the same team I remember Parnell doing better.
We shouldn't let sentiment obscure the facts.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
The damn sheep shaggers are going well. Just hope they don't cross 400 too...
Ho3n3r
Honorary Master
OK let's take all his innings then. Top score of 23, with an average of 9.25. That's 0.8 more than Morne Morkel. And they would have come in in basically the same situations.
I wouldn't trust either to come to the crease with us needing 40 runs to get.